Dukes - from running the Enhance Shaman thread, my advice to you is that you should include all relevant mathematical formula anywhere that you say "this is the best choice" or "the value of this is X," because sooner or later you're going to be flooded with people saying you're wrong, or asking for the formulas.

I want to see your citing of the evidence here. I have 3/5 improved demo roar, and it overwrites a warrior's shout (and a warrior can't overwrite mine). But if your values are correct, 3/5 of the talent would be .6 * 96 + 240 = 297.6, still less than a warrior's standard shout.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a trigger that says that if you have improved, it will always overwrite, while if you don't then it won't, regardless of what the actual values for the shouts are. Kind of stupid, but I wouldn't put it past them.

Idol of the Raven Goddess may decrease in value, but things become complicated when you consider the fact that hunters have various abilities that trigger from crits, on top of the straight dps gains from them. BM hunter pets trigger a 3% damage buff for the whole party (and a 30% haste buff for themselves) when they crit, and LotP is one of the few ways that a hunter can boost pet crit rates. Survival hunters trigger expose weakness (which boosts physical dps for the entire raid) from crits, and regain mana when their special attacks crit.

Again, this is not to say I disagree with the conclusion, as my math fu is far too weak to evaluate it. But crit nevertheless can have damage boosting effects that one might not anticipate at first.

We defenately need a new top item list for each slot with the HotW change now.

Yeah I was being lazy before, just gone through and replaced all the gems with actual itemlinks.

Pretty much the only thing that changed is that Thallassian Wildercloak is slightly better than Razor-Scale Battlecloak. I made a 2.3 Toplist in the Feral Druid DPS Thread.

Got the values from Thottbot - just checked in game and Demo Roar rank 6 is listed as 248 AP, not 240. That'd make enough of a difference to get over the 300 mark. Asked a Warrior friend, their shout is listed as 300 indeed (unimproved).

Your 3/5 value would put you at 124% of 248 = 307.5

It makes no difference since the hotfix.

The initial damage done by Lacerate affects Bleed Immunes (and can even crit). The dot part of Lacerate can largely be ignored when it comes to threat generation.

Dukes, a million thanks, great work!!

That's all that changed at the "top" level where you can socket everything for DPS. There are a lot of in-between DPS items between T5 and T6, and compromises made with T6, that show how items may have value where they previously didn't.

In the short-term, note that [Gloves of Dexterous Manipulation] increased their lead on everything besides T6. [Cursed Vision of Sargeras] becomes obscenely better than any other option, as opposed to significantly better. A great many blues start infringing upon the territory of epics (making, say, [Windslayer Wraps] not much better than [Fel Leather Gloves].) [Edgewalker Longboots] and [Boots of Effortless Striking] get to be as good as [Treads of the Den Mother] for DPS (but still behind Shadowmaster's). [Ancestral Ring of Conquest] went from top-tier DPS item to second-tier, as well as things like [Mithril Chain of Heroism] and [Haramad's Bargain]. The new [Shadowprowler's Chestguard] now has competition from [Bloodsea Brigand's Vest].

The top isn't different, but the steps getting there definitely are. Essentially-- anything with AGI, AP, and sockets all got better than they were before. Items with all 3 got significantly buffed relative to "feral" items with STR/AGI.

I thought lacerate bleed threat was 10%, not 20%. Testing when it was changed tot he current version showed sunder armor level inital threat. Has that changed?

Clarifying a few points.

The reason + hit is good for druids is twofold. First, nifty things like the Hourglass, 2T4, and Omen only work when you hit. Missing dilutes their effectiveness. Second, ferals will average energy-to-damage conversion rates around 30-50, from karazhan to T6. This means that every missed shred or mangle is costing you around 270-450 lost damage and a missed rip is very painful. This energy conversion rate is much higher than rogues, and is the reason 2T4 is so good. Every proc is another 600-1000 damage.

The Shapeshifter's Signet gives you an effective 3% hit against boss and other 73 mobs, plus possibly other unknown bonuses. This makes it extremely efficient, and it it still useful even if you dps with a Earthwarden. On the other hand, 10% ap makes rogue gear competitive for many slots and it usually has an abundance of hit.

Next is an examination of the differences between the various tier pieces and which are the best to use at any particular point. The easy answer is to wear whichever T4 pieces you can't fill in with T5 or better.

The medium answer is always wear things with more sockets, like T6 gloves and T5&6 legs.

The long answer goes into a semi-detailed examination of the various pieces' stats as compared among the tiers. Here is the total stat changes for each piece in total stats as you advance along the tier sets. Socketing is so that each set, T4, 5 and 6, will activate a RED meta and yellows are always filled with pure hit gems. Mix and matching pieces will shuffle gems around a bit but shouldn't create major differences. Chests are always socketed for bonuses since they eat a yellow and a blue, T4 and T6 helm socket bonuses are included and T5 shoulders.

Helms:
T5 +5 str, +4 agi, -8 hit
T6 +16 str, +6 agi, -8 hit

Shoulders:
T5 +5 str, -1 agi, +8 hit
T6 +6 str, +5 agi, +8 hit

Chest:
T5 +17 str, -4 agi, -4 hit
T6 +24 str, +2 agi, -4 hit

Legs:
T5 +4 str, +13 agi, +18 hit
T6 +11 str, +17 agi, +27 hit

Gloves:
T5 +3 str, +3 agi
T6 +7 str, +16 agi

The hit diffences in the helms and shoulder are due to gem placements. T4 helm gets a hit gem, while they go in shoulders for the other tier sets. While individual placement may vary, while wearing T5 the best T4 pieces are clearly the gloves and the shoulders, although using the shoulders requires shifting a hit gem. While wearing T6 things get a little more complicated. Wearing shoulders and helm only costs you 22 str and just 11 agi while socketing your second yellow for the lovely T4 helm bonus. Shoulders and chest costs you 30 str yet only 7 agi while gaining 4 hit, but requires moving a yellow gem somewhere.

Incidentally, this also shows that T5&6 legs and T6 gloves are extremely good and are the best pieces in their respective sets.