Feral Megathread - Page 320

Duilliath · 08/16/08, 11:14 AM

Weapons have 0 bearing on a Druid's attacks. Stats are the only thing that count.

For all purposes (ignoring the stats on the weapon for a minute), it makes no difference if you're holding a Torch of the Damned (3.8 2hander) or a Level One Club of Swiftness (1.0 speed 1hander).

It does absolutely nothing, nada, bugger all.

Holubtsi · 08/17/08, 5:18 AM

Thankyou Astrylian for posting the macros. I have tried them as Main Tank in a Tempest Keep run and found them to work very well. The reset time is critical to it functioning properly but one must take into account how often the key is pressed in combat; and that is a user preference.

I attached the /cancelaura blessings to my simple Enrage macro as i do not feel it needs to be included in every swing I make with the bear, just shaving off a few milliseconds of code makes me feel warmer and fuzzier.

Boevis · 08/17/08, 9:59 AM

Originally Posted by Monkor

Thanks for the reply guys. I understand cats and bears attack at the same rate regardless of actual weapon speed. I guess I was asking more along the lines of modified dmg attacks, like shred getting a 225% bonus. With a harder hitting slower weapon will your shreds hit harder because dmg gets more of a gain from percentage based modification, or is weapon dmg range completely irrelavant and is shred dmg based completely on AP(obviously other factors go in as well, but im speaking of the percentage bonus increase).

When you are in cat form, no matter what weapon you have equipped, your "paws" weapon damage is 43-66 at 1.0 speed (54.5 DPS) base. This is modified by Attack Power and +Weapon Damage items like [Crystalforged Trinket] and [Adamantite Weightstone]. Currently Windfury and Flametongue do not affect paws. The way feral mechanics work, even an item like [Dreamer's Dragonstaff] would be superior to [Brutal Gladiator's Bonegrinder] for catform.

Our static 1.0 attack speed in cat used to be the largest limitations to the viability of Feral, and are why "Feral Weapons" were inevitably changed to have AP based on bringing our 54.5 dps paw up to the same dps as a 2H of the same item level.

Monkor · 08/17/08, 10:50 AM

Thanks a ton for the explanation- appreciate you guys helping me out, I get it now.

So when you get a percentage based buff on a yellow attack does it increase your feral AP by that percentage? (Like 225% for shred)

Nospamas · 08/17/08, 1:23 PM

This ones got some pretty simple maths behind it, AP ratios are constant as you level.

For 14 Attack power (there about) we gain 1dps.
Cat form weapon speed is 1 attack per second, so 1 dps = +1 weapon damage.
So for any given weapon we effectivley gain 1/14th of its FAP as +damage to our main hand cat weapon.
Then given that shred is 225% damage, the increase is simply a multiplier on that increase.

With some example numbers:

1000 Attack power ~ 71dps.
71 dps = +71 damage on kitty weapon.
71 damage = 159.75 damage on shred.

As far as applied order to multiplication effects, the sensible order would be:

(Base attack power + additional attack power bonuses from armour and talents ) * Attack power multipliers including cat form = total attack power

(Total attack power * weapon speed) = weapon damage bonus from AP

(Base weapon damage + Weapon damage from attack power + Add additional weapon damage effects) * physical damage multipliers IE from talents) = Total weapon damage for ferals

This total weapon damage can then be multiplied by special attacks such as Shred.

If anyone has any corrections feel free to post them. I'm sure this is also handled in about 50 other places on the forum.

Boevis · 08/17/08, 11:11 PM

"Total AP / 14 * weapon speed = weapon damage bonus from AP" you mean Otherwise that's correct.

So the 1110 FAP on [Staff of the Forest Lord] adds 1110 * 1.1 (HoTW in cat form) = 1221 ap
1221 / 14 = 87.21 additional weapon damage * 1.1 (Naturalist talent) = 95.94 total bonus weapon damage per attack
95.94 * 225% (Shred damage bonus) = 215.86 Shred Damage from 1110 AP on the item.

Aleanathem · 08/17/08, 11:29 PM

So I've been wondering is it better to be concerned with being hit capped for feral dps or just to stack more agility? Right now I am at 109 hit rating with 3886 AP and just picked up Madness off Illidari Council.

Anger · 08/18/08, 4:45 AM

so that puts you to 129 hit or 109 with madness? If its 129 maybe eat hit food and stack the rest up on agi, put you over the cap. If not maybe think about switching a couple +10agi gems to some 5hit 5 agi, what ive had to do recently.

unitsinc · 08/18/08, 8:07 AM

Originally Posted by Aleanathem

So I've been wondering is it better to be concerned with being hit capped for feral dps or just to stack more agility? Right now I am at 109 hit rating with 3886 AP and just picked up Madness off Illidari Council.

Hit is nice when it comes on gear, but agility is still our best DPS stat. I'd only use 2 agi/hit gems to satisfy meta requirements and then continue stacking all agi. As it stands I've got something along the lines of 60 hit and still do respectable DPS(~1600) on Teron.

dukes · 08/18/08, 9:50 AM

White hits will miss for full damage, as will finishing moves and OoC procs. Standard yellow hits will not be affected as heavily due to the energy use being lower on missed specials. It's more personal preference to be hit capped because in a "perfect" world of simulators, agility is still worth more point-for-point than hit, and you will still have a reasonable chance to miss even with hit capped due to dodge (unless you stack a lot of expertise as well).

It is also possible to "waste" hit rating by being over the cap. There is no cap on agility, but any point of hit over 142 is wasted against bosses.

Scurn · 08/18/08, 2:09 PM

The agility vs. hit/expertise argument really comes down to how well you personally can react to misses in your rotation. More hit/expertise allows for a more stable cycle but is lower theoretical dps than using an equivalent amount of agility. If you are good about not immediately mangling after a missed rip then agility becomes closer to the ideal. I prefer to stay somewhat near the hit cap without going too far out of my way and a missed/dodged omen of clarity attack still irritates me to no end.

bluephoenix331 · 08/20/08, 4:19 PM

Hey guys and gals, i've been following this thread for a short period of time and was wondering if you all could help me out a little bit. Last night i was tanking Hyjal 3 and 4 and hear a mage say "can we put a Misdirect up on the tank?" Now i found this incredibly annoying and almost shameful and came here to look for some help. It seemed i was having trouble actually getting a mangle up on the target, are there any suggestions to switching my gear around or something to maxamize TPS? i was sitting at about 1000-1100 sometimes dropping to 990 when the mangle wasnt up or i was reapplying FFF or demo roar. Also, Hyjal 3 stuns me over and over...making it supremely difficult to really get a cycle down. My cycle is usually opening w/ a FFF when he's being pulled to me then opening with a mangle, 3 lacirates, mangle, stack to 5 lacirates, magle, and spam swipe and maul until mangle is off GCD and lacirating again with about 5-6 ticks left on it in case i miss. Am i doing something wrong? Or is my gear off? Any help would be greatly appreciate it.

Merple · 08/20/08, 4:24 PM

Originally Posted by bluephoenix331

Hey guys and gals, i've been following this thread for a short period of time and was wondering if you all could help me out a little bit. Last night i was tanking Hyjal 3 and 4 and hear a mage say "can we put a Misdirect up on the tank?" Now i found this incredibly annoying and almost shameful and came here to look for some help. It seemed i was having trouble actually getting a mangle up on the target, are there any suggestions to switching my gear around or something to maxamize TPS? i was sitting at about 1000-1100 sometimes dropping to 990 when the mangle wasnt up or i was reapplying FFF or demo roar. Also, Hyjal 3 stuns me over and over...making it supremely difficult to really get a cycle down. My cycle is usually opening w/ a FFF when he's being pulled to me then opening with a mangle, 3 lacirates, mangle, stack to 5 lacirates, magle, and spam swipe and maul until mangle is off GCD and lacirating again with about 5-6 ticks left on it in case i miss. Am i doing something wrong? Or is my gear off? Any help would be greatly appreciate it.

In terms of Hyjal 3, you can pop [Free Action Potion] prior to the pull to save yourself a bit of the opening grief.

kalbear · 08/20/08, 4:51 PM

Kaz is a DPS race - so having max threat gear + having misdirects is a good thing. Misdirects are good for hunters anyway - it lowers their threat and raises yours. Kaz isn't that hard of a hitter either, so you can skimp a bit on armor and be okay, still.

I'd strongly recommend getting some expertise on your gear ([Shard of Contempt] is great here), possibly a dps staff like [Staff of the Forest Lord] and go nuts. Also you can probably maul earlier than what you're doing unless you're really low on rage. I usually start with an enrage, FF before he reaches me, maul+mangle and then go into the cycle.

zaiats_2k · 08/21/08, 6:33 AM

Originally Posted by bluephoenix331

My cycle is usually opening w/ a FFF when he's being pulled to me then opening with a mangle, 3 lacirates, mangle, stack to 5 lacirates, magle, and spam swipe and maul until mangle is off GCD and lacirating again with about 5-6 ticks left on it in case i miss. Am i doing something wrong? Or is my gear off?

Your gear is not good enough for swipe spam on single target. Your rotation should be (Mangle + Lacerate x3) in limited rage situations. Add Maul when you have no problems with rage.

You need average swipe damage > 250 to make swipe spam better than lacerate. And this probably come true when you have 4T6

. More details here: Feral Druid Megathread#3217