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Old 11/05/07, 3:56 AM   #571
Mistaya
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Bloodwood View Post
The gloves from A'lar are so god damn good...
I had a question about these actually, since I picked them up last night. Is the expertise on the gloves going to be worth dropping the Gloves of Dex. Manipulation? They'll have 14 or so less agi on them than my old ones, but I'm not sure how I should value expertise in comparison to flat agi.

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Old 11/05/07, 5:30 AM   #572
dukes
Bald Bull
 
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Dukes
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Expertise is approximately equal to hit rating when in a purely DPS role, but doesn't cap.

4 expertise rating = 1 expertise = 0.25% less dodge
~16 hit rating = 1% hit, 4 hit rating = 0.25% less miss.

[Gloves of the Searing Grip]
[Gloves of Dexterous Manipulation]

Assuming 2x8 agi gems, it's a difference of:

51-33 = 18 agility
42-66 = 24 AP
18 expertise.

So you gain ~0.8% crit compared to 18 expertise (essentially 1.125% hit, although it rounds down so it's actually 1% iirc). I'd probably take the Searing Grip, but it's a close call.

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Old 11/05/07, 7:15 AM   #573
onkl
Von Kaiser
 
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Brick
Undead Rogue
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by dukes View Post
Expertise is approximately equal to hit rating when in a purely DPS role, but doesn't cap.
Well the cap would be the 5% dodge/parry the bosses have (or whatever number it is).

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Old 11/05/07, 7:20 AM   #574
onkl
Von Kaiser
 
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Brick
Undead Rogue
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by Mistaya View Post
I had a question about these actually, since I picked them up last night. Is the expertise on the gloves going to be worth dropping the Gloves of Dex. Manipulation? They'll have 14 or so less agi on them than my old ones, but I'm not sure how I should value expertise in comparison to flat agi.
Your armory shows PvP gear i guess but maybe it's better for you to get S3 head and chest an then wear T4 shoulders and gloves for the setbonus.

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Old 11/05/07, 7:29 AM   #575
Wings
Von Kaiser
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Argent Dawn
Originally Posted by Voldin View Post
Fixed another small math error.

Feral Druid DPS 1.1.3
Thanks for updating and such, really appreciate it and loving your spreadsheet.
Curious, why isn't [Unstoppable Aggressor's Ring] in your list?

Also, these stats are 2.3 or 2.2?

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Old 11/05/07, 7:33 AM   #576
Tyvi
Never, Mags. Never!
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Turalyon (EU)
Originally Posted by dukes View Post
Expertise is approximately equal to hit rating when in a purely DPS role, but doesn't cap.

4 expertise rating = 1 expertise = 0.25% less dodge
~16 hit rating = 1% hit, 4 hit rating = 0.25% less miss.

[Gloves of the Searing Grip]
[Gloves of Dexterous Manipulation]

Assuming 2x8 agi gems, it's a difference of:

51-33 = 18 agility
42-66 = 24 AP
18 expertise.

So you gain ~0.8% crit compared to 18 expertise (essentially 1.125% hit, although it rounds down so it's actually 1% iirc). I'd probably take the Searing Grip, but it's a close call.
In this case I would definitely go for [Gloves of the Searing Grip] as well. They may be slightly worse or just equal than [Gloves of Dexterous Manipulation], however there is more to them than just theorycrafted DPS values. Searing Grips give you more survivability with more Sta/AC and they actually smoothen out your DPS cycles by reducing dodges. I think the last part is not given enough value by most people but I doubt I am the only one that messes up Powershifts just because the mob dodged your Rip or proceed to Mangle/Shred just because you realized too late that your Rip from before didn't connect, effectively wasting DPS. So unless we are all robots, this is something worth considering for sure.

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Old 11/05/07, 7:51 AM   #577
Mistaya
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by onkl View Post
Your armory shows PvP gear i guess but maybe it's better for you to get S3 head and chest an then wear T4 shoulders and gloves for the setbonus.
I use the pants and shoulders for T4 2pc atm. Yeah my current armory is pvp (BG) gear, and it's not really ideal at that, heh. My arena points are reserved for resto set (and the S3 staff after.) Just transferred servers so I don't have a solid arena team yet.

I'm using the helm off netherspite and the chest off nightbane right now, 2800AP/36%crit/122hit unbuffed. It's not very good but I'm stuck in full t4 for tanking so I can't socket/enchant for cat yet.

edit: Thanks for the advice, I'm definately holding on to the Searing's until patch.

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Old 11/05/07, 7:56 AM   #578
Wings
Von Kaiser
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Argent Dawn
Is it just me or is [Belt of Deep Shadow] one of the best cat DPS belts available after 2.3? Don Alejandro's and One-Hundred Deaths are better, but considering this is a BoE craftable from SSC/TK not relying on drop-luck, I'd say it's pretty damn nice.

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Old 11/05/07, 8:15 AM   #579
Farstrider
Back in teh house
 
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Farrstrider
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by Wings View Post
Is it just me or is [Belt of Deep Shadow] one of the best cat DPS belts available after 2.3? Don Alejandro's and One-Hundred Deaths are better, but considering this is a BoE craftable from SSC/TK not relying on drop-luck, I'd say it's pretty damn nice.
Yeah, the short answer is yes. If your rogues all have theirs and there are nethers spare then I'd go for it for sure. The primal requirements are not too bad either, just 10 primal air and 10 primal shadow. Airs are expensive but not *too* bad to farm, and shadow are pretty easy come easy go. I'm getting one made up at the monent that will probably get socketed with full +hit gems.

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Old 11/05/07, 8:16 AM   #580
dukes
Bald Bull
 
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Dukes
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by onkl View Post
Well the cap would be the 5% dodge/parry the bosses have (or whatever number it is).
It's ~6% dodge and ~12% parry. I'd like to see a setup that isn't stupid that actually has that much expertise - it's just not feasible to get that much as a druid with relatively good gear in other slots, in comparison to Hit which it's pretty easy to get over the cap. You would need 16*6 = 96 expertise rating to get dodge capped. Shapeshifters Signet is 20, Searing Grip is 18, One Hundred Deaths is 25, Shoulderpads of the Stranger are 10, Earthwarden is 24, and the Brooch of Deftness is 21. That's a maximum of 118 expertise rating, taken from the WoWhead list of epics with expertise (new in the burning crusade) that's wearable as a druid. It's a pretty select set of gear, to say the least, and certainly not the setup I'd pick for DPSing, even though I agree with Liar that hit and expertise have a slightly more profound effect on personal DPS compared to that given on spreadsheets (also part of the reason I prefer 4t6 over 2t4).

Yes, Deep Shadow is probably the third best in slot after than Don Alejandro's/One Hundred Deaths (as long as you aren't hit capped).

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Old 11/05/07, 9:59 AM   #581
Woden
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Terenas (EU)
Originally Posted by Voldin View Post
Fixed another small math error.

Feral Druid DPS 1.1.3
Just found this spreadsheet and have been messing around with it, it seems like a great tool to have. Firstly thank you, secondly there is a couple of things I'd like to discuss/comment on.

I did not see an option for [Nyn'jah's Tabi Boots] would it be possible to have it added? Both [Leggings of Murderous Intent] and [Shady Dealer's Pantaloons] are coming out as less dps for me then [Skulker's Greaves]. This is slightly different to Toskk which ranks both of them higher in the 5000ap 50% crit region. I picked up the Kael legs last night and was considering them for 2.3 when my gear will be pretty much rebuilt with the addition of the new heroic badge items and s3. Anyone care to comment on these leg choices and whether you consider them an upgrade from skulkers or not. Finally when I combine the total hit and miss % it comes nearer the 8.6% mark then the 9% mark I had become familiar with, does this have much impact on the spreadsheet?

[edit]added them as per the instructions[/edit]

Last edited by Woden : 11/05/07 at 1:38 PM.

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Old 11/05/07, 12:08 PM   #582
Valerian
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Blackhand
Originally Posted by Bloodwood View Post
Sorry if this has been asked before, but what are T5 level druids subbing out for 2pc malorne once 2.3 hits?

Thinking about subbing out the helmet and gloves, but god, s3 head and the gloves from A'lar are so god damn good...
If you dont have access to T6 then the gear setup with regard to set pieces should look like:

Helm: S3
Chest: S3
Gloves: T4
Shoulders: T4
Legs: Heroic badge ones or Skulker's greaves (or any of the Hyjall BT offset pieces).

Once you have access to T6 it should look like:

Helm: S3 or Cursed Vision
Chest: T4
Shoulders: T4
Gloves: T6
Legs: T6

This is mainly because of the added dps that comes in from the T6 set bonus. If you have a second druid that is mangling the T4 gloves and shoulders are the ones that provide the bestg compromise between stats and the T4 set bonus.

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Old 11/05/07, 2:08 PM   #583
monstor
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
The Forgotten Coast
I am starting to believe that being hit capped is more important then t4 2pc set bonus.

I've done a couple of tests with different sets of gear on two raid bosses, which are Leo and Lurker.


Week 1: T4 helm + T4 shoulders + T4 legs + T5 gloves + [Shadowprowler's Chestguard] with 80 hit rating, had 10.2% miss on melee attacks
Week 2: T4 helm + [Midnight Legguards] + [Chestguard of the Conniver] + [Shoulderpads of the Stranger], around 128 hit rating I only had 6.3% miss on melee attacks

I don't see how it's good to stack ap/crit or 2pc set bonus gear if you are not hit capped? I've been using msbt scrolling text mod, and it's really interesting to see how often you miss when dpsing with 84 hit rating and over 130 hit rating, and WWS reports proved it to me over the two weeks. Also, don't you think hit rating is important?

Personally, I would rather hit two shreds for say 2.5k- to 3k then miss two and hope I get lucky with t4 2pc set bonus procs, any one agree?

Last edited by monstor : 11/05/07 at 2:15 PM.

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Old 11/05/07, 3:03 PM   #584
Allev
King Hippo
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Monstor-- your post proves that when you have more hit rating, you hit more. It offers no comparison of hit rating to 2t4.

Perhaps you could link the WWS parses so we could see the results of your overall DPS.

Also remember that you don't need to get "lucky" with 2t4 for it to be massively better. If you miss a shred, you only lose 8 energy, not 42. Only finishers lose all their energy when they miss.

Your choices of gear change your hit rating by 31, which would take you from 80 to 111, not 128. Perhaps you're omitting the fact that you have your Stranger shoulders with a DPS enchant on them. The [Shoulderpads of the Stranger] have no hit rating on them (and no expertise until next patch). You could get 2t4 in your claim above without lowering your hit rating simply by putting back on your T4 shoulders and enchanting them for DPS.

Last edited by Allev : 11/05/07 at 3:08 PM.

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Old 11/05/07, 3:26 PM   #585
Torpesh
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Khadgar
Originally Posted by monstor View Post
Personally, I would rather hit two shreds for say 2.5k- to 3k then miss two and hope I get lucky with t4 2pc set bonus procs, any one agree?
Of course it would be better to hit two Shreds rather than miss two, but with a difference of a 3.9% for your "to hit", you would have to attack with 50 Shreds before you would miss (on average) 2 of them which you wouldn't have missed anyway. Given all of the white attacks happening in there along with your specials, that's going to likely equate to more than a few procs of the 2T4 set bonus.

Last edited by Torpesh : 11/05/07 at 3:27 PM. Reason: Clarification on misses

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