Re: defense skill:

How much straight +defense does it take to become undazeable? This is an area where using +def to reach uncrittable seems to have an edge over using +resilience to do the same thing.

Re: Lacerate

I was just going by the wowwiki description, but looking at the code for the latest version of the ace threat lib, it also has the values of 285 base threat, and then a 20% modifier on all damage. Lacerate doesn't scale with AP, so the maximum average threat you're likely to get when attacking is about 300 threat. Swipe on the other hand does scale with AP, with 7% of AP being added to your base damage. If you have good enough AP, crit and to get your average swipe damage up to more than 300 damage then it will generate more threat per attack than lacerate.

The issue is also complicated by blocks and weapon skill. Pretty much every TBC boss has a chance of blocking and will block for more than lacerate hits for and in those cases it generates no threat. Having weapon skill helps, but even at the infamous +5 level it doesn't negate block completely.

The lacerate threat issue was discussed in the bear tanking thread. Dukes came to the conclusion you need to do about 225 average damage (non crit) to generate more threat.

Kir, one thing you seem to have forgotten is non-set items.

[Edgewalker Longboots], [Deadly Cuffs][Insidious Bands][Gronn-Stitched Girdle][Don Alejandro's Money Belt]

Not to mention going with strait +Hit is pretty bad compared to +agi/+hit even when not hit capped, you don't actually need yellow sockets to activate the RED, just gems that "count" as yellow.

Daze immunity is 475 for 70s + 5 for each level up. 490 for bosses. SotF does nothing for druid daze immunity.

This is realistically unattainable for druids while tanking and you will probably see a daze or two while tanking mobs that need to move fast, yes being dazed has killed my and wiped our Illidan attempts more than once.

One thing to keep in mind for Lacerate is the damage it does. After building up a 5 stack, one could conceivably spam Swipe and only use Lacerate to refresh the stack to keep the damage rolling.

WWS says I got:
23,442 dmg over an ~8 minute Lurker (worst case example because of having to refresh the stack after each submerge)
40,582 dmg over an ~8 minute Morogrim (better, the stack never falls)
46,494 dmg over a ~10 minute Magtheridon

It's a nontrivial amount of damage imo. I've been following the 225 figure, I believe it was calculated for a 30% crit rate.

This is what I do. Simply stack the stack and then use swipe, only lacerating whenever the stack is about to fall. I think it is by far the best threat for your time you can get. This is of course in unlimited threat situations.

is it possible to macro two seperate on use trinkets to a single rip macro?

Ive tried

/use 13
/use 14
/cast rip

but it only works when 13 is on CD

I don't go into the non-set items because they tend to drastically complicate the discussion. It was intended strictly to illustrate the best T4 pieces to wear as compared to T5&6. Besides, those are all not 5 piece slots and not what I was talking about. While you can shuffle some gems off into those pieces, and you should, the primary effect of wearing those on the analysis is shifting the hit differences on the helms and shoulders into agility differences. Or str/crit differences in the case of the T4 helm, but that's the only place I'd voluntarily put a str/crit gem.

As for hit, I believe very strongly that you should always be hit capped when possible. Even for ferals, my spreadsheet shows better returns point for point than anything else even though hit doesn't have the overwhelming lead that it does for rogues. Yes, you can use agi/hit gems if you want to cut some hit, but that doesn't really change the comparisons a whole lot except in helm/shoulder differences and those aren't exactly major. Yes, str/crit gems can be used instead if you already happen to be hit capped but they're pretty bad as opposed to the other yellow options. I've always had to struggle to get to the hit cap, but my raid runs 4 rogues, 2 dps warriors, a enh shaman, and 4 hunters in the roster so getting hit jewelry was not easy.

The common double use trinkets for druids are a bloodlust/crystalforged combo, and those do have a lockout timer on them. Er, you may also need stopcasting commands in there.

My trinket macro:

/stopcasting
/use Crystalforged Trinket
/stopcasting
/use Bloodlust Brooch
/stopcasting
/cast Rip(Rank 7)


works perfectly

That seems like a nice macro, I might try that without the Crystalforged Trinket because I am using hourglass.