D'oh! Forgot about the GCD from the bear specials. Don't know how I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out guys.
/use Dunce Cap
That's the "issue" with the macro tho, when you get really low and want to use it, chances are you're on GCD so you actually have to wait a little bit before using it. Better than no potions, I guess, but still not that great.
Yeh, that's pretty much the conclusion I reached after the initial euphoria wore off. Fact is, in a max threat cycle you have no free GCDs, the ideal is to fill every single one with a threat move, rage permitting. So if you get spiked low, you simply have to wait 1.5 seconds at worse before you can pot. I find that dual trinkets are more of a lifesaver than pots and healthstones have been, and because of the trepidation, I've found myself not using them at all, instead choosing to double trinket and wait for heals.
Extra special and probably worth taking note (For me it's at a point I can 'feel' when it's safe to slam the bearstand macro and this is an important tidbit) is that Bear Mangle triggers a 1 second GCD instead of 1.5. Beats me if it's intended or will otherwise be fixed, though.
Knowing when to go all out on threat and when to keep GCD-light is often the sign of a great tank, rather than spamming buttons mindlessly.
Also, don't forget that on elemental fights (especially Illidan P2) remaining in Caster form for a second or two isn't fatal. In fact my bearstand macro is modified to pop Barkskin instead of Bearform for this particular encounter. You don't lose anything mitigation-wise by remaining in caster because elemental attacks ignore armor (other than the 4% dodge bonus from talents, I guess) and Barkskin will actually help keep you alive longer, as it's a flat 20% damage decrease vs the same amount of incoming heals. HP should not be a problem in this case, as you'd have just potted/HSed/whatever. Of course, you'd still want to get back into bearform for the higher max HP, but it's just not as hair-trigger as tanking regular mobs. :P
Edit: To reiterate re: latency, it has no bearing on bearstand macros. I do it with 500+ms and it works every single time.
Ludicrous server side load and event processing, on the other hand, could be a different story.
I don't think there's ever been a time where I felt potting and using up a GCD to heal wasn't worth the threat tradeoff, and the 1.5 second at most before you can pot isn't such a huge delay that it all the sudden doesn't become worth it anymore (having to wait it out might kill you sometimes, sure, but you were gonna die anyway).
As for trinkets vs potting, I'd rather use both. If I see a bad spike starting I'll trinket, or if I know a spike is coming up I'll trinket, but if I'm at like 1000 health about to die, I'm gonna pot/trinket. Pot/HS combo gives back ~5-6k health after the shift, for most bosses, that's enough for another hit, and with the high dodge, probably a few attacks. No reason you can't combine both if you're in that much of a danger of dying.
I've used the bear potting fairly often so far, hasn't killed me yet.
Might I suggest moving the Healthstone up front, then adding the specific health pots for TK (Nethergon.. something) and SSC (Cenarion... something) and only then adding the Health potion/Alchemist's Pot ?
This'll consume the 'freeby' potions first, rather than the more expensive regular potions.
Might I suggest moving the Healthstone up front, then adding the specific health pots for TK (Nethergon.. something) and SSC (Cenarion... something) and only then adding the Health potion/Alchemist's Pot ?
This'll consume the 'freeby' potions first, rather than the more expensive regular potions.
This is a good idea but macro length becomes a problem.
I am no macro expert but I think it is possible to cast a macro from a macro using the click command and having the other macro on the right action bar.
Maybe one of the more macro literate druids could help us out on this?
I imagine we set a macro up to use the consumables in the order we prefer and have the macro sitting on a hidden bar which we can call via the macro listed a few pages back.
Of course I may be completely off my tree about this
I've always custom tailored the macro before each boss. This includes the type of pot I have handy... Recently finished my stash of Auchenai pots, so I've moved on to the Ogrila Apexis Shard ones.
Edit: Regarding how I trigger my macro's, I don't know how standard (or not) this is since I've been using it for macros for forever, but I'm addicted to Trinity Bars, which allows me to bind buttons (including modifiers) directly to the macro icons on the macro page itself. Ctrl-C is my generic oh-shit button; on a modifier and on a key I wouldn't otherwise normally hit, and which wouldn't trigger a GCD if I really panic and hit C without the modifier, etc etc etc
Well within the character limit. It gives the same results as typing out the names, but with more control and less space. I've listed the equivalents below:
item:22105 (2496 HS)
item:22104 (2288 HS)
item:22103 (2080 HS)
item:32578 (Crystal Focus, 2k health)
item:34440 (Mad alchemist's potion, 1650-2750 health)
item:32905 (Nethergon Vapor 1500-2500)
item:32947 (Auchenai Health pot 1500-2500)
item:22829 (Super healing pot 1500-2500)
You can obviously (re)move the mad alchemist's if you aren't alch or would rather use the freebies over the extra health.
I didn't include the Cenarion Healing Salve (item:32904) because on every server I've been on it gives better returns to AH the armaments and just buy normal health pots.
Last edited by Lorewanderer : 12/08/07 at 9:51 PM.
Reason: clarity
That's a fair point about being more vigilant with GCDs once you've established a comfortable threat lead, and something I will definitely experiment with. That macro looks really good Lorewanderer, for completeness sake, I'd add:
/use 13
/use 14
.. to it as well, space permitting. This will activate both your trinkets, which (if you're using Badge and Pocketwatch, or another clicky not on the GCD), is a Good Thing.
Finally, has anyone compiled a complete list of items that don't trigger a GCD and thus can be used in a bearstand macro? So far we've got:
Healthstones/Charged Focus [on the same cooldown]
Potions (including zone specific ones) [on the same cooldown]
Nightmare Seed?
Fel Blossom?
Is there anything else?
edit:
- Stats: Feral combat skill is worth a lot if you aren't at the hit cap. It's still pretty good if you are. Post 2.3 it isn't worth as much as it is now.
Still contains a reference to the old feral combat skill =p
Further, from the discussion on Hit Rating for tanking from a few pages back, I've taken the liberty of compiling a list of the Hit & Expertise options for tanking. This can be paraphrased into the OP if it's useful. Please point out any notable omissions.
- S3 Arena gear. A bunch of pieces have a nice bit of Hit Rating on them, and if you wear 2 pieces, you get the 35 resilience set bonus which is a good chunk of what you need for crit immunity, not to mention the items' inherent resilience.
- [Item not found!] is also a decent option if you're not shy the defense, especially if you're getting a lot of resilience from s3/pvp3 gear.
- [Earthwarden] has a good amount of Expertise, really useful if it is still your main mitigation weapon. If not, you can swap it in at the start of a pull (or a weapon with Hit Rating, like [Terestian's Stranglestaff]) to make sure the first few hits land, then swap in your mitigation weapon.
- Finally, you can consider sacrificing mitigation, and wearing a bunch of Rogue items with Hit Rating or Expertise in lieu of more bear oriented high armor items (e.g. [Belt of One-Hundred Deaths] or [Shoulderpads of the Stranger]).
Nightmare seed and Fel Blossom both share a timer with health stones.
I left them off the list as they're both more proactive forms of health buffs (Seed adds 2k on top, Blossom absorbs 750-1250). I would certainly consider having them on separate macros, however.
I've removed the weapon skill reference and added a hit rating/expertise section to the bear form post. Hopefully there aren't any errors in there. Thanks for pointing out it was lacking, I didn't realise I hadn't mentioned both hit and expertise in the stats part of the bear post.
If you don't mind playing inventory games, you can take the first 3 lines and just make them:
/use Master Healthstone.
When you have multiples put the stones in descending order in your backpack and it will use the first one first. For example if you put the 2496 in the first row, first column slot and the 2288 in the first row, second column slot the game will always use the 2496 first. This frees up a few characters to include other consumables.
I liked making a generic potion macro for all my forms so this is what I ended up making. I'm no macro expert but I tried to make it as concise as possible and I used the click command like cluey asked about.
Health Pot in any form(except travel) and return to that form:
Macro #1:
#showtooltip (item:28100)
/click [stance:1] MultiBarLeftButton9
/use [nostance] (item:28100)
/use [nostance] (item:11951)
/stopmacro [nostance]
/cancelform [stance:3]
/use (item:28100)
/use (item:11951)
/cast Cat Form
Macro#2:
#showtooltip (item:28100)
/cancelform [stance:1]
/use Super Healing Potion
/use Volatile Healing Potion
/use Major Combat Healing Potion
/use Master Healthstone
/use Charged Crystal Focus
/use Whipper Root Tuber
/cast [nostance] Dire Bear Form
Macro 1 is keybound and macro 2 is on the left action bar button 9 so it is called whenever I hit my potion button in bear form and only then. I didn't know you could drop the () so I might change that when I get home.
In the T6 helm I have 16 def, 17 dodge enchant, 5 def 7 stam gem, and a 12 def meta so I remain over the def cap, im at 416 def atm.
Unbuffed im at 31706 armor which is 72.61% damage redcution against a level 73 mob. 44.07% dodge and 15224 health.
My question is about Slikk's Cloak of Placation Slikk's Cloak of Placation - Items - World of Warcraft if I used this cloak I would be able to re-gem the meta in my T6 and I was going to put a Relentless Earthstorm, 12 agi and +3% crit damage.
If I did this, I would lose 25 hit, 5 dodge, and 8 stamina. But I'd gain 1254 armor and raise my mitigation to 73.38% reduction. I would also gain the 12 agi 3% crit damage meta.
Would using the Slikks cloak and changing to the Relentless Earthstorm be better than my current set up? The 5 dodge rating would pretty much be double by the meta, i would lose a bit of stamina and the big thing Im worried about is the loss of 25 hit. I dont roll with much hit on my tanking gear, im a bit too obsessed w/ agi/stam/armor.
I guess the real question is would the TPS increase I would see from the Relentless Earthstorm greater than the 25 hit I would lose from Pepe's. Im only rolling with 43 hit WITH pepe's so id be losing a substantial amount from the limited hit i have. id like to know what you guys think, thanks in advance.
25 hit is a substantial amount of hit. Try doing this instead...
Your shoulders and pants should have a Steady Talasite in them. Apoligize to your guild for wasting Seaspray emeralds (lawl). You're using S2 chest for tanking. Put a 15 resilience enchant on it. Voila, your crit problems are gone. Regem your helm and go crazy.
In the T6 helm I have 16 def, 17 dodge enchant, 5 def 7 stam gem, and a 12 def meta so I remain over the def cap, im at 416 def atm.
Unbuffed im at 31706 armor which is 72.61% damage redcution against a level 73 mob. 44.07% dodge and 15224 health.
My question is about Slikk's Cloak of Placation Slikk's Cloak of Placation - Items - World of Warcraft if I used this cloak I would be able to re-gem the meta in my T6 and I was going to put a Relentless Earthstorm, 12 agi and +3% crit damage.
If I did this, I would lose 25 hit, 5 dodge, and 8 stamina. But I'd gain 1254 armor and raise my mitigation to 73.38% reduction. I would also gain the 12 agi 3% crit damage meta.
Would using the Slikks cloak and changing to the Relentless Earthstorm be better than my current set up? The 5 dodge rating would pretty much be double by the meta, i would lose a bit of stamina and the big thing Im worried about is the loss of 25 hit. I dont roll with much hit on my tanking gear, im a bit too obsessed w/ agi/stam/armor.
I guess the real question is would the TPS increase I would see from the Relentless Earthstorm greater than the 25 hit I would lose from Pepe's. Im only rolling with 43 hit WITH pepe's so id be losing a substantial amount from the limited hit i have. id like to know what you guys think, thanks in advance.
-Vichenor
70 Druid Onyxia
<Smile>
In terms of sustained threat on a boss, they are nearly equal. The hit rating has a very slight advantage, however you are gaining much better defensive stats with Slikk/RED. On 71-72s, RED would be much better threat gen. Also, if you are ever going cat form RED is quite a bit better than the hit rating from Pepe's.
Since when the mob you're tanking parrys you, would that imply its better to stop spamming lacerate/swipe on the boss if the fight is not threat intensive and you're sufficiently above the rest of the raid (for example Al'ar phase 1)?
This is an important note for the bear and lynx bosses in ZA where the tanks have to stand on top of each other. Bear boss it's not a huge deal unless your tanks are dying a lot, but lynx attacks incredibly quickly. We went from "oops the tank died again" to "huh did this boss used to be hard?" by having the second tank stand there and do nothing except absorb saberlash.
Did anyone try to make ultimate tanking set? I saw ultimate dps gear list but did someone made the same list but for tanking?
I've played a lot with Rawr to find best gear set. I want to gem T6 with +10 agility and dps enchants so I can both dps in T6 and tank (agility is good for tanking).
Because 12 agi meta gem needs 2 blue gems, I've decided to put 5agi/7sta gems in gloves and pants. Shoulders and chest with +10agility and head with tanking gems (18stamina, 5agi/7sta, def enchant) because I'll aim for some other dps head. To reach crit immunity, I'll try to get maybe Scarab or the trinket from Gurtogg.
Our guild has just managed to enter Black Temple so we're still far from T6 but I want to plan my bids far into the future. Thanks a lot to everyone that would like to share their opinion.
Our guild has just managed to enter Black Temple so we're still far from T6 but I want to plan my bids far into the future.
That's funny, it says you're guildless to the left - I'd get that fixed.
To actually help out, you'll be quite a long way through tier 6 before you actually start to pick up any tier gear - the first bits and pieces that you are likely to get will be the trash boots from BT which are pretty "best-in-slot", the trash cloak drop from MH, & maybe the Supremus ring. The cloak which is very nice but will probably mean dropping some defense/resil from your tanking set, so may require a lot of rejigging of gear, while the ring is also very nice but has no armour on, so you may choose to pass to your prot warriors first.
Full tier 5 is good enough for a druid to tank all of tier 6 content in my opinion, so until you've got a few pieces of tier 6, this really isn't going to be an issue for you.
[e] The socket bonuses on tier 6 level stuff are actually pretty good, so I'd try to actually meet the requirements where possible.
<Fric> I think the only kind of gay buttsex I'd enjoy on any level would be assraping a smug hipster douchebag (also possibly a roid head and/or fratboy/Jersey Shore cast member)
Did anyone try to make ultimate tanking set? I saw ultimate dps gear list but did someone made the same list but for tanking?
I've played a lot with Rawr to find best gear set. I want to gem T6 with +10 agility and dps enchants so I can both dps in T6 and tank (agility is good for tanking).
Because 12 agi meta gem needs 2 blue gems, I've decided to put 5agi/7sta gems in gloves and pants. Shoulders and chest with +10agility and head with tanking gems (18stamina, 5agi/7sta, def enchant) because I'll aim for some other dps head. To reach crit immunity, I'll try to get maybe Scarab or the trinket from Gurtogg.
Our guild has just managed to enter Black Temple so we're still far from T6 but I want to plan my bids far into the future. Thanks a lot to everyone that would like to share their opinion.
Your ultimate tank set is completely subjective unlike the ultimate dps set which has only one goal. I think I am wearing the ultimate tank set right now minus RoS neck. I have 27.5k hp raid buffed and armor capped with a paladin (swapping out badge for another 51 stam trinket.) Our warrior MT has a big focus on stam gems and has over 4k more hp then the MT of another Illidan farming guild on our server who sockets all avoidance and is passively uncrushable. Anything will work really.
We have top 50 wws reports for almost every boss and I never, ever, EVER lose agro (baring when people zone out and don't wait for me to actually hit the mob before they do) so I have no idea why any of you could possibly claim that's a good focus for tanking gear. As much as I want to work the new expertise neck and badge +hit boots into my gear, it's simply not worth the loss of stam.
Stam is really the only way to go if you intend on tanking things often and your goal is to not die. If you want an ultimate hybrid set, then what's the point of even posting.
Did anyone try to make ultimate tanking set? I saw ultimate dps gear list but did someone made the same list but for tanking?
I've played a lot with Rawr to find best gear set. I want to gem T6 with +10 agility and dps enchants so I can both dps in T6 and tank (agility is good for tanking).
Because 12 agi meta gem needs 2 blue gems, I've decided to put 5agi/7sta gems in gloves and pants. Shoulders and chest with +10agility and head with tanking gems (18stamina, 5agi/7sta, def enchant) because I'll aim for some other dps head. To reach crit immunity, I'll try to get maybe Scarab or the trinket from Gurtogg.
Our guild has just managed to enter Black Temple so we're still far from T6 but I want to plan my bids far into the future. Thanks a lot to everyone that would like to share their opinion.
Until you've been farming T6 for a long time, you won't have Crimson Spinels to spare. Best bet is to put Shifting Shadowsong Amethyst's in your hybrid pieces.
You can use these 3 pieces in a DPS set fine. Since helm and shoulder enchants are not hybrid designed, they're my favoured pieces to use T4 for, and when I get my T6 helm/shoulders, I'll gem them for tanking.
As far as ultimate tanking gear, it's a fairly simple list.
The ultimate tanking feral gear question is a sad story for ferals because we don't have choices for any slot except perhaps the neck the boots and the trinkets. The discussion i think should be about gemming and enchanting those items. There are different roles in tanking (MT,OT,Max Threat). I think the 5agi 7stam gem is "the feral tanking gem" and 5agi 5hit if you really want to keep your gem bonus.
Stam is really the only way to go if you intend on tanking things often and your goal is to not die. If you want an ultimate hybrid set, then what's the point of even posting.
Just out of interest, how much dodge do you have in that set, raid buffed? I guess it's still 40%+ so not a major issue, just saying that it isn't the way that a lot of people have previously recommended. Clearly it does the job, and that huge hp pool must reduce the strain on your healers massively, but I think there are probably very few druids here who are regular MTs for their guilds in BT, hence the focus on what you call "hybrid".
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I have no idea what my buffed dodge is, I've never thought to even check it once I went the stam route and never looked back. I'm sure it's around 50-55% or so. Curiously I recently took a SS of myself with 30045 HP but I managed to have my melee stats pane open rather then defense, lol. Really though anyone in t6 content can easily pickup a separate dps set in next to no time and having an insane amount of HP really trivializes the only two challenging bosses once you get BT on farm so it's definitely worth it. That's not even including Idol or Terror since which I haven't even bought since brutality is more dps.
Tank gear really comes down to personal preferance as what Xelo is listing doesn't apply if you prefer resilience to get crit immunity over defense which I think most feral druids do. The Vindicator's Bracers and Belt are the best tanking items for their slot and from there the resilience needed to get crit immunity isn't very substantial which allows for a wide range of options in gear choices. My choices are shaped by the fact that I never MT anything in BT/Hyjal (might MT Azgalor) so I choose more offensive items when possible and always gem with the RED meta.
Assuming [Staff of Primal Fury] as a base weapon I'm trying to compare whether it would be more advantageous to enchant it with [Formula: Enchant Weapon - Executioner]and then use a [Warp-Spring Coil] as one of my dps trinkets or just stick with the more regular +35agil and another more standard crit/attack power trink?
Any thoughts? The idea of having 1100ish or 1300ish or even 2100 armor penetration is intriguing. Searching through this thread there is some discussion of its worth but mostly in the context of just the staff. Penetration gets more valuable the more you have of it so I'm wondering if the combination of the staff/enchant/trinket is actually one of the more desirous combinations out there.
12/06/07, 8:35 PM
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