Assuming [Staff of Primal Fury] as a base weapon I'm trying to compare whether it would be more advantageous to enchant it with [Formula: Enchant Weapon - Executioner]and then use a [Warp-Spring Coil] as one of my dps trinkets or just stick with the more regular +35agil and another more standard crit/attack power trink?
Any thoughts? The idea of having 1100ish or 1300ish or even 2100 armor penetration is intriguing. Searching through this thread there is some discussion of its worth but mostly in the context of just the staff. Penetration gets more valuable the more you have of it so I'm wondering if the combination of the staff/enchant/trinket is actually one of the more desirous combinations out there.
You may want to read the text on [Warp-Spring Coil] a little closer. Specifically the class requirement...
I think 35 agil is still better than the Executioner enchant.
[Warp-Spring Coil] is Rogue-only. It was my understanding that Executioner doesn't proc in forms, either. Your armor reduction items are pretty much limited to the staff and S3 PVP gear.
Stacking armor pen is not currently worth it for a druid. You can't get enough, unlike Rogues who can possibly get unto the upper 2000s for pretty significant gains. Yes, armor pen does get better the more of it you have, but we don't get enough to get high enough on the curve.
Stacking armor pen is not currently worth it for a druid. You can't get enough, unlike Rogues who can possibly get unto the upper 2000s for pretty significant gains. Yes, armor pen does get better the more of it you have, but we don't get enough to get high enough on the curve.
I did not test it yet (i am farming ZA at least once a week since the patch, yet i got none of the armor penetration drops i want there), but i think that it is useful stat for druids.
First my stats fully buffed (without enha shaman): 4000 attack power, 50% crit chance, 136 hit rating.
I will get 600 armor pen (chest, belt and staff). I am currently working on the timed event to get to the ring, that would be another 125.
I once calculated that on typical raid boss (including CoR, FF and sunder), CoR gives about 6% melee dmg increase. CoR is 800 armor down. So with 700 i expect about 5% damage increase. 20% dmg is from rip, so 4% dmg increase in total.
According to wowwiki, armor pen stat value is expected to be 0.1. So 700 armor pen could be 70 crit rating, for example, or 70 strenght. I do not think that 70 agi could be put there as agility already is on most of the items.
70 crit rating =~ 3.3% to crit, in my opinion this can not increase my dmg by more than the armor penetration but i am not able to proof it in theory.
70 strenght =~ 170 attack power, will that give me 4% dmg increase? I do not think so but again i am not able to proof it in theory.
I'd be glad if you check my arguments, since i did not think about them thoroughly and there might be some basic oversight from my side.
One thing this build gets that the others don't is near full benefit from Ancestral Fortitude/Inspiration proc (the others are too close to the cap to get much/any benefit from it). WITH this proc this build becomes:
Health: 28774
Armor: 38478/75.00%
Dodge+Miss:60.38%
Total Mitigation: 88.21%
Build #2 Balanced with a Stamina focus
Health: 25771
Armor: 36730/75%
Dodge+Miss: 65.46%
Total Mitigation: 89.49%
Build #4 Can't Touch This Beer
Health: 21529
Armor: 35062/74.57%
Dodge+Miss:81.52%
Total Mitigation: 93.39
It seems a standard measure of tanks is HP, but looking at the mitigation I truly feel that #1 is just plan bad. #2 and #3 feel the best to me, but the total mitigation on #4 is just plain sexy.
One thing that makes me like #2, is that all my gems are such that if, for some reason build #1 is required, I can make it with just swapping a few pieces of gear.
Your thoughts/input?
Thanks!
EDIT: made some mistakes in typing numbers, fixed now.
Extra special and probably worth taking note (For me it's at a point I can 'feel' when it's safe to slam the bearstand macro and this is an important tidbit) is that Bear Mangle triggers a 1 second GCD instead of 1.5. Beats me if it's intended or will otherwise be fixed, though.
Just to clarify, this means that one could "safely" use one's HS/pot macro 0.5 seconds sooner after Mangle than any other bear ability (Swipe, Demo, Lacerate, etc.)? (I'm thinking particularly of Tidewalker, where threat isn't too big of a deal if DPS is watching Omen, but the spike damage can be pretty brutal if multiple MT healers get graved.)
That also has interesting implications for snap threat--I think I habitually used Swipe followed by Mangle when I'm trying to multitank, but using Mangle first would provide the same amount of threat on the focus 0.5s sooner.
Someone also mentioned putting their trinkets in their "Bearstand" macro--personally, I'd use the trinkets before the Bearstand macro, so that the extra dodge from your trinkets helps cover you in case something goes wrong with the macro.
Does anyone know of an addon to make your GCD status more visible than just the little "clock hand" on the buttons? Could be helpful in preventing accidents with the new macro possibilities.
Last edited by foxglove : 12/12/07 at 1:28 PM.
Reason: clarity
Does anyone know of an addon to make your GCD status more visible than just the little "clock hand" on the buttons? Could be helpful in preventing accidents with the new macro possibilities.
Quartz has a little movable, resizable GCD bar. I've been playing with it in the middle of my screen to help break my terrible Lacerate spamming habit. I don't know that it would be terribly useful for timing potion macros -- yeah, it would help to time them, but then you're stuck with a persistent UI element that doesn't do anything else for you. (Unless you're also trying to break a spamming habit. I think it's helping me!)
i've been searching forums to find answers about ideal raid melee group setup. I did not find definite answer about feral druids in the "WF" group, so i'd like to know your opinion.
Feral druid does not benefit from windfury, but he does benefit from the UR and strenght totem. I do not know if HotW increases the ATP gain from UR. If not, 10% of my 4200 attack power is 420, strenght totem is lets say 180, total 600 attack power. My estimation is that my gain from enha shaman would be about 100 dps. Additionaly, feral druid increases crit chance of the party by 5%. Retri pala increases dmg of the party by 2%. Additional rogue / warrior does not increase party's dmg.
So, what is more? Druid's increased DPS + 5% crit, or retri pala's increased DPS + 2% extra dmg, or another warrior/rogue?
My guess is that we do not have place in melee group, which saddens me a bit.
My guess is that we do not have place in melee group, which saddens me a bit.
Well. First, being in a group with a shaman will make the biggest difference, as you will get SoE totem at least. You won't get GoA, but you can get at least a 5 minute might for another 200+ AP assuming you have more than 1 pally.
Second it's completely subjective depending on the makeup of the raid. Some don't raid with an enhancement shaman, probably a lot of people still don't raid with a ret paladin. Most of the time I'll either end up in the melee group with 1 dps warrior, 2 rogues, and a shaman (resto or enhance), or the odds and sods group if we have 2 ferals and I lose the coin toss. My dps certainly drops around 75-100 if I end up in the odds and sods group, but then I will usually be in with the hunters to boost their crit. Different strokes for different folks - if you don't have more than 1 rogue you might get to have the group above with a ret paladin as well - that would probably be about as ideal as it could get for a feral kitty in full dps mode.
<Fric> I think the only kind of gay buttsex I'd enjoy on any level would be assraping a smug hipster douchebag (also possibly a roid head and/or fratboy/Jersey Shore cast member)
It depends on what your raid makeup is. Quite often we have a 3 BM hunter + shaman + feral group which is amazing for damage. More or less +80% uptime on 3 FI's plus a shaman who drops GoA and SoE is probably my favorite group right now.
Originally Posted by missiletoad
I get enjoyment out of constructing buildings out of my fries and demolishing them with my chicken nugget army as I make monster noises. But you people. You people are FREAKS.
What gear/buffs/debuffs/racials are you using for those stats?
Buffs: Commanding shout, Imp Imp, Imp Fort, Imp MotW, Kings, Imp Grace of Air totem, various elixirs/flask depending on the build (Ironskin, AGI, fort), Stam/AGI food depending on the build
Debuffs: Scorpid sting, Insect Swarm
Racials: Tauren
Gear: T6 with various gems, Pendant of Titans, Wildfury/Pillar depending on build, Belt of Natural Power, Treads of the Den Mother, Violet/A'dal or Abyssal Lord/Eternal life rings, Shadowmoon/Badge of Tenacity or Darkmoon decks, heroic badge cloak/bracers. High dodge build uses some high AGI rogues pieces.
Quartz has a little movable, resizable GCD bar. I've been playing with it in the middle of my screen to help break my terrible Lacerate spamming habit. I don't know that it would be terribly useful for timing potion macros -- yeah, it would help to time them, but then you're stuck with a persistent UI element that doesn't do anything else for you. (Unless you're also trying to break a spamming habit. I think it's helping me!)
I do, in fact, have a bit of a Lacerate spamming habit. ;) It's resulted in occasionally not landing a maul or mangle as soon as I could when rage-capped (because I was in GCD or fumbling buttons from my Lacerate mashing)... as well as irritating hunters and mages when I reflexively charge a target I see out of CC, mangle and mashmashmash to pick it up, and then oops! it's dotted when they try to re-CC it. The point about reducing unnecessary boss parries is also salient. Unshift/reshift macros are just another reason to stop the spam.
I believe (from your description) that I use a similar Quartz element on my hunter to time my shot cycle, so I don't think I'd find it too intrusive. Thanks for the tip.
i've been searching forums to find answers about ideal raid melee group setup. I did not find definite answer about feral druids in the "WF" group, so i'd like to know your opinion.
Feral druid does not benefit from windfury, but he does benefit from the UR and strenght totem. I do not know if HotW increases the ATP gain from UR. If not, 10% of my 4200 attack power is 420, strenght totem is lets say 180, total 600 attack power. My estimation is that my gain from enha shaman would be about 100 dps. Additionaly, feral druid increases crit chance of the party by 5%. Retri pala increases dmg of the party by 2%. Additional rogue / warrior does not increase party's dmg.
So, what is more? Druid's increased DPS + 5% crit, or retri pala's increased DPS + 2% extra dmg, or another warrior/rogue?
My guess is that we do not have place in melee group, which saddens me a bit.
I'm not sure if it's difficult to do or gimps his own damage some but we have an enhancement shaman that twists GoA and Windfury, and often run with Ret Pally, Enh. Shaman, Warrior x2 and a feral druid. Basically he drops Windfury then immediately drops GoA so everyone gets both buffs. It's a fair chunk of mana and 2 global cooldowns every 10seconds but as far as I know all it messes with is his shocks.
He loses 2 shocks every 30 seconds for roughly 2k damage. If GoA adds ~66dps over the rest of the group then it is a net gain. As for if a druid or another warrior/rogue would be better in the group the math isn't nearly so simple.
Our shaman would whine up a storm if I even suggested that. Complaints about "oom" would abound.
Additionally I've been replaced in the dps group with a ret paladin. GG windfury. Group is now War, War, Pal, Rog, Sha. I'm in with a 2 hunter, holy palie, rogue. The depression abounds.
Our shaman would whine up a storm if I even suggested that. Complaints about "oom" would abound.
Additionally I've been replaced in the dps group with a ret paladin. GG windfury. Group is now War, War, Pal, Rog, Sha. I'm in with a 2 hunter, holy palie, rogue. The depression abounds.
Our Enhance shaman has been doing the totem dance since the last patch and claims he has no mana problems.
He does it because he's a selfish 16 y/o and wants the agility totem, at least he does drop WF now though
As for which group I end up with it depends on the raid makeup and if I am tanking, off-tanking or just DPS.
Quite often I will end up in the hunter group and not always with a shaman as they are rare still.
Last Morogrim kill I was DPS and managed 1149 on WWS in a group with a BM hunter, Survival hunter, Arms warrior and Elemental shaman who was obviously the odd man out, this was with GoA and SoE.
12/11/07, 6:50 PM
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