This question is somewhat related to the earlier comment about being a 'lacerate spammer', something that I personally fall victim to on occasion. I am curious what other people do to keep a 5 stack up at all times... When do people typically start trying to refresh? I find that if I wait too long, the chance of the stack falling off because I got a parry/miss/dodge string is quite high (leading to the spamming). Also, does anyone try to time the reapplication to the tick (immediately after I guess), in order to keep the time between ticks at a minimum. It would seem like 'clipping' lacerate ticks could have a pretty negative impact on TPS. Complicating matters, one can imagine a situation where you properly time lacerate to avoid clipping, the attack is dodged, and if you instinctively tried to reapply and were successful, the lacerate would clip the next tick.

TPS, while important, does not really need to be an exact science, especially as a feral, considering we have all of about four options for threat gen. As long as mangle is always on CD and a lacerate stack is up most of the time with swipes and mauls in between, rage-permitting, then you're doing it right.

The threat per tic of Lacerate is so pathetic I don't even consider "clipping" it's tics to be a concern, not to mention I have yet to find an addon that accurately tracks it's duration, not even the standard blizzard ui seems able to do it. I just re-apply it after 2 mangles

Basically what happens with Lacerate is re-applications only increase the stack (up to 5) and Tics remaining back to 5, not the 15s duration, so if you reapply with 1s remaining of the initial application, the actual duration will be 13s

Maeltne, thanks for the info. I'm currently building a max-armor stam set. Just waiting on another pair of T6 legs and some vortex to get another Belt of Natural Power (both of mine have 10 agi, and I'd prefer not to destroy those gems). I feel much more confident already after gemming helm, chest, shoulders, and and a 2nd pair of gloves with 15 stam and full defensive enchants. My avoidance is still relatively high and my threat is the same if not better due to being rage starved less often. The extra HP padding is a tremendous confidence boost and, even with endgame content conquered, it makes me easier to heal and feel more like a solid tank.

I'm going with your #2 Build (however I dislike the dependance on an Elixir for -crit):

T6 Helm + 15 STA + 18 STA Meta + Def/Dodge Enchant (611 Armor, 39 AGI, 82 STA, 17 DodgeR, 16 DefR)
Pendant of the Titans (43 STA, 25 DodgeR, 21 DefR)
T6 Shoulders + 2x15 STA + Def/Dodge Enchant (484 Armor, 64 STA, 36 AGI, 15 DodgeR, 10 DefR)
Silkk's Cloak of Pacification (346 Armor, 37 STA, 12 AGI, 25 DodgeR, 16 DefR)
T6 Chest + 3x15 STA + 150 HP Enchant (781 Armor, 36 AGI, 96 STA, 150 HP)
Vindicator's Dragonhide Bracers + 15 STA + 12 STA Enchant (236 Armor, 56 STA, 22 AGI, 17 Resil)
T6 Gloves + 15 STA + 15 AGI Enchant (539 Armor, 47 AGI, 49 STA)
Belt of Natural Power (423 Armor, 20 AGI, 68 STA)
T6 Legs + 15 STA + 40 STA/12 AGI Enchant (737 Armor, 53 AGI, 104 STA)
Footwraps of the Wild Enroachment + 2x15 STA + 12 STA Enchant (418 Armor, 29 AGI, 70 STA)
Violet Signet of the Grand Protector + 4 Stats Enchant (392 Armor, 4 AGI, 41 STA, 19 DefR)
Adal's Signet of Defense + 4 Stats Enchant (367 Armor, 4 AGI, 38 STA, 20 DefR)
Shadowmoon Insignia (36 DefR, 32 DodgeR)
Wildfury Greatstaff + 35 AGI Enchant (500 Armor, 75 STA, 35 AGI, 54 DodgeR)
Badge of Tenacity (308 Armor, 150 AGI / 6 = 25 AGI)
Idol of Terror (65 AGI at 60% uptime (guess) = 39 AGI)

[top] 823 STA, 337 (64) AGI, 190 DodgeR, 138 DefR, 150 HP, 17 Resil, 6142 Armor

Night Elf (1% Dodge, 77 AGI, 84 STA, 3434 HP)
Imp Fort (102 STA)
Imp MotW (340 Armor, 18 STA, 18 AGI)
30 STA Food (30 STA)
Elixir of Mastery (15 STA, 15 AGI)
Elixir of Fortitude (250 HP)
Imp Devotion Aura (1205 Armor)
Imp Commanding Shout (1520 HP)
Imp Grace of Air Totem (89 AGI)
Imp Bloodpact (85 STA)

334 STA, 1% Dodge, 199 AGI, 6409 HP, 1545 Armor

Thick Hide (+10% Armor)
Blessing of Kings (+10% STA, +10% AGI)
Heart of the Wild (+20% STA)
Dire Bear Form (+25% STA, +400% Armor)
Survival of the Fittest (+3% STA, +3% AGI)

 

Contents

1 (823 + 334) * 1.03 * 1.1 * 1.2 * 1.25 * 10 + 6559 2 (6142 * 5 + (199 + 337) * 2 * 1.03 + 1545) * 1.1 3 (199 + 337) * 1.03 * 1.1 / 14.7 + 1 + 190 / 18.9 4 64 * 1.03 * 1.1 / 14.7 5 138 / 60 6 17 / 39.5

[top] (823 + 334) * 1.03 * 1.1 * 1.2 * 1.25 * 10 + 6559

> 26222 HP [27972 HP via trinket for 20 sec]

[top] (6142 * 5 + (199 + 337) * 2 * 1.03 + 1545) * 1.1

> 36695 Armor

[top] (199 + 337) * 1.03 * 1.1 / 14.7 + 1 + 190 / 18.9

> 52.3% Constant Dodge

[top] 64 * 1.03 * 1.1 / 14.7

> 4.9% Averaged Proc Dodge [57.3% Total]

[top] 138 / 60

> -2.30% Crit

[top] 17 / 39.5

> -0.43% Crit [2.73% Total]

26222 HP
36695 Armor (815 over cap, 163 actual item armor)
57.3% Dodge

-- My math might be wrong, I just computed it while writing this entry.
-- Now that I look at it, the Rogue bracers might be slightly better due to the wasted armor.

In reference to the configuration I posted above, I'm wondering if I should use the heroic belt, Wasteguard of the Great Beast, over the Belt of Natural Power.

The armor listed above has a 163 armor budget, the difference between the Wasteguard and Natural Power is only 56. The Wasteguard has 8 less stamina, but gains 8 agility and 18 hit.

Which would you guys choose assuming you're near or over the armor cap?

That's a decent trade, so is Phoenix Wing on your cloak or Shadowmaster's Boots on your feet.

You could also consider dropping a piece (shoulders or helm) for S3 gear.

Once you pass the armor cap (even before it, depending on how many priests/shamans you have healing you), it's all about stam and dodge.

Last I checked Toskk's list includes gems, but it sets them up to get the socket bonus, even if that would be detrimental to your DPS.

Thanks. I ran the math on Belt of Deep Shadow, and that is what I came up with.

My gear yields values as
191.8224 w/o sockets
222.92 with matching sockets and socket bonus (this is the value he listed).
237.16 ignoring the socket bonus and using the best blue gems

That's actually dang annoying. Now I have to recalculate all his values. :/. Easiest to code/most user friendly would be just to ignore sockets. Most user friendly would be to calculate considering both the socket bonus and without and listing the highest. Most annoying would be the way it was done :/.

raffy, you multiplied all of your armor by thick hide. Just make the bear form multiplier 5.5 instead.

I think it checks the best combination and even leaves the bonus out if it's something stupid.

I'm pretty sure we gain 10% armor from all sources with 3/3 Thick Hide, even "elemental" armor like MotW or Devotion Aura.

Ah you might be right, I just observed the difference between Naked and Naked + MotW, and noticed it was greater than 340. However, I forgot to realize the extra armor probably came from the agility provided by MotW.

Can anyone confirm this?

Well I just did a few tests with belts and it definitely doesn't do this. It seems to try for the set bonus as I said, regardless of what the set bonus is. The numbers do seem a BIT off but thats the only method that gets even remotely close to the numbers that appear next to the items that are generated.

Thick Hide does not apply to extra armor provided by +armor elixirs, scrolls of protection, MotW, Devo, cloak enchant, glove armor patch, 4T4 bonus, armor from Agility etc.

I believe it was done that way to compensate for making gear "hybrid" compatible-- any feral who is playing a hybrid role will be socketing blue Tier pieces with agi/stam gems rather than pure agi, so his values are more "realistic" for those pieces. The downfall is that it doesn't evaluate items that are only useful for DPS as such.

Has anyone done any modeling/testing of how much mitigation expertise provides? Being worth twice that of hit rating for threat is clear, but what I am wondering is how much extra damage does parry contribute to the boss over the course of a fight. Is removing it worth giving up some dodge, or other stats? I've starting thinking about this because of fights like Mother Shahraz. The OT's aren't even allowed to attack for fear of killing the MT, so the boost to the boss's damage must be significant?

Can anyone come up with a weighting for it compared to agility, stamina, etc, based on it's mitigation-only value? I'm not expecting it to beat agility or anything, but it should have a weighting, and I think it would be decent.

No she was not. Parry revisions were slated for a 'future' patch.

Hello, this is my first post and I dont normaly post on forums but a rogue friend said he came here alot and that the info here was top notch. I was in a raid recently and I was second on the damage meters the first being a fury war and the third a lock, Now I didnt off tank or doing anything on the side like healing etc. For some reason I was beat by 200k damage and I watched omen the whole time I was ahead or slightly behind the tank 90% of the time and ahead of the fury and had to back off my damage or pull. So... how do i do more damage without pulling when a fury war can beat me without generateing as much threat?

Help your tank produce more threat. Poke the raidleader to give them windfury, point them at the protection warrior thread here (if feral, at this thread) poke your hunters to use MD on cooldown and so on. Bascially, if your dps is threatcapped the only solution to that is to raise the threatceling somehow.

If you're holding back at all, use that energy to cower and increase your potential damage.

You are neglecting the fact that the Braided Eternium Chain has an aura component - you wont be the only person benefiting. 28 crit rating for 4 people... not sure how well that compares to 140 crit rating for one person, but it sure is allot easier on threat.

The Fury warrior is likely getting Salv and you are not. Also, you are allowed to go up to 9% above the current tank on threat, that could help you do more.

I am curious however, what fight allows you to do 200k less damage and still be in 2nd...