Feral Megathread - Page 47

Mijae · 11/11/07, 2:13 AM

Originally Posted by YagerMyster

Ok, its common knowledge that getting to the armor cap isn't too difficult once you have access to T4 gear. Those of you that are seeing T5 and T6 drops, have you thought of dropping Thick Hide and reallocating those points elsewhere? Even just pulling 1 point out of Thick Hide for a 3%(?) loss in armor.

Actually, it's not possible to hit the armor cap in T4 without relying on buffs like Inspiration. In T5 you can hit it with Devotion Aura (maybe barely with some new 2.3 loot). At the T6 level, you are better off switching to lower armor items with higher stats than dropping Thick Hide.

Foofer · 11/11/07, 3:15 AM

Originally Posted by YagerMyster

Ok, its common knowledge that getting to the armor cap isn't too difficult once you have access to T4 gear. Those of you that are seeing T5 and T6 drops, have you thought of dropping Thick Hide and reallocating those points elsewhere? Even just pulling 1 point out of Thick Hide for a 3%(?) loss in armor.

What would you put the point(s) into otherwise? In my raid spec, I can get everything I want and have one point left over that I put into either Intensity or Primal Tenacity - neither of which I think are necessary for feral. I'd consider swapping out some armor pieces before removing points in thick hide - Supremus ring comes to mind, but a lower armor cape, wrist or belt would probably work well too.

Mijae · 11/11/07, 8:46 AM

Originally Posted by Woden

Between the 2 spreadsheets also with the same gear I noticed a rather large dps discrepancy approximately 250 dps I was wondering what the reason for this is and again which is more accurate?

Voldin, I've been analyzing your spreadsheet and looking at adding it as an optional model. However, I have found a few problems that could account for at least a portion of the DPS differences. It looks like the base damage and multipliers for your Rip damage do not follow the standard values. You're applying the Mangle buff to Rip twice. The miss and dodge calculations do not match between melee attacks and specials and expertise is not applied correctly. These are a few I've found, but only looking at the Buffed Cycles. It also looks like some of the talent point numbers were deleted on the "Races" sheet and broke validation lists.

dyree · 11/11/07, 9:49 AM

I have a small request for both Mijae and Voldin: Would it be possible to split out loot that you buy with Badges of Justice from loot that actually drops in Heroics? I'd love to have seperate toggles for these.

Thanks!

Wings · 11/11/07, 9:52 AM

Originally Posted by Allev

- Primal Man-Catcher now has 49 AGI instead of 49 STR.

Wow, it is? Did I miss the post about this, cause this is new information for me! I wonder how it compares to Merciless Gladiator now.

Edit: I see it still isn't all that great. :/ At least it should beat Stranglestaff now >.>

Torpesh · 11/11/07, 12:18 PM

Has anyone written a combat simulator to determine feral DPS? I tried searching for one and didn't come up with anything. I've been thinking of creating one, but I don't want to do a lot of work if it's already been done.

Thanks!

Allev · 11/11/07, 8:27 PM

Originally Posted by Torpesh

Has anyone written a combat simulator to determine feral DPS? I tried searching for one and didn't come up with anything. I've been thinking of creating one, but I don't want to do a lot of work if it's already been done.

Thanks!

Read the first three posts and find the link.

Voldin · 11/12/07, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by Mijae

Voldin, I've been analyzing your spreadsheet and looking at adding it as an optional model. However, I have found a few problems that could account for at least a portion of the DPS differences. It looks like the base damage and multipliers for your Rip damage do not follow the standard values. You're applying the Mangle buff to Rip twice. The miss and dodge calculations do not match between melee attacks and specials and expertise is not applied correctly. These are a few I've found, but only looking at the Buffed Cycles. It also looks like some of the talent point numbers were deleted on the "Races" sheet and broke validation lists.

I got my Rip numbers from my own in game testing, and worked backwards from there by removing multipliers like Naturalist to get a base value. I have long since deleted the #'s from those tests, but if anybody has any data I could use to double check, I'd be happy to run through that exercise again.

Nice catch on the Double Mangle Buff, I fixed that one already. I'm going to take some time to make a few cosmetic improvements also. I should have the changes done shortly.

Mijae · 11/12/07, 2:27 AM

I found a number of performance tests for Rip, but perhaps most common:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Talk:Rip
http://druid.wikispaces.com/ToskksDPSGearMethod

However, it looks like Tangedyn is now using 1356 for 4pt Rip and 1554 for 5pt Rip.
http://tangedyn.9tribes.net/cat-dps/catdps-calc

Fariseo · 11/12/07, 5:02 AM

Very exhaustive threads about feral dps, thanks, but I'm still interested about feral tanking and the new expertise: since a high-level feral tank has only one valuable item increasing expertise ( Brooch of Deftness - Items - World of Warcraft ), is still worth wearing that neck despite the fact we cant cumulate expertise due the lack of item with it (warriors got more high-lvl expertise items)?
i.e.

Brooch of Deftness - Items - World of Warcraft
48 STA 22 HITR 21 EXPR

vs

Pendant of Titans - Items - World of Warcraft
43 STA 20 HITR 21 DEF 25 DOD

Is the +aggro gain via expertise worth the loss of avoidance?

Torpesh · 11/12/07, 9:28 AM

Originally Posted by Allev

Read the first three posts and find the link.

All of the links in the first three posts are for spreadsheets, which as far as I can tell use theorycrafted numbers and models. I don't want to try to model a combat situation, I want to try to simulate it.

There's a tanking simulator on the druid wiki, but I'm looking to write something for DPS.

Torpesh · 11/12/07, 9:36 AM

Originally Posted by Fariseo

Brooch of Deftness - Items - World of Warcraft
48 STA 22 HITR 21 EXPR

vs

Pendant of Titans - Items - World of Warcraft
43 STA 20 HITR 21 DEF 25 DOD

Is the +aggro gain via expertise worth the loss of avoidance?

That depends to a large extent to who your tanking and how good your healers are. You can't generate hate if you're dead

Also, what will you have to do to remain crit immune if you lose the 21 defense here?

Immortal · 11/12/07, 9:51 AM

That depends to a large extent to who your tanking and how good your healers are. You can't generate hate if you're dead

Also, what will you have to do to remain crit immune if you lose the 21 defense here?

Well, i think this item is good for some kind of max-tps set. And you can always use parts of PvP gear to remain crit immune after losing some defense.

Torpesh · 11/12/07, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Immortal

Well, i think this item is good for some kind of max-tps set. And you can always use parts of PvP gear to remain crit immune after losing some defense.

Absolutely. My point is just that he's asking for a comparison of the TPS stat vs. mitigation stats. You can't really compare the two outside of a specific context.

As an example, when I'm tanking Leotheras I always put on my [Shapeshifter's Signet] instead of my [Shermanar Great-Ring] because the most important thing is picking him up after whirlwinds and you often only have one or two shots at him before he runs off, so you have to make sure they hit. Plus, Leo hits like a sissy. On the other hand, I would never think of making that switch against Morogrim because he hits like a tank and threat is never a problem in that fight since DPS is often taking time to kill murlocs.

Neither ring is necessarily "better" than the other.

Allev · 11/12/07, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Torpesh

All of the links in the first three posts are for spreadsheets, which as far as I can tell use theorycrafted numbers and models. I don't want to try to model a combat situation, I want to try to simulate it.

There's a tanking simulator on the druid wiki, but I'm looking to write something for DPS.

I was hoping you'd find Toskk's page, which isn't exactly a simulator. Toskk tried writing it in simulator-form, but ran into problems with web browsers thinking the page crashed (he uses his GetDPS() function on that page to evaluate every item, which means the simulator has to run a ridiculous number of times to get good precision). You may want to inquire with him about whether he has a build of it available.

Why do you want a straight-up simulator for DPS, though? It's not like you have to analyze spikes in personal DPS like you do with incoming damage, and is as vulnerable to mechanics flaws as the theorycraft.