The problem with that is that there are generally much better options for the trinket slot, whereas you can pick up hit all over on other gear.

For the neck I'll use it on all trash and any boss where you can't really afford misses, Leotheras being given as a good example. Hydross another one for picking up adds. Its a nice neck for any fight where either high TPS is needed or fast pickups where a missed mangle is going to mean someone else gets aggro.

No you haven't calculated anything wrong. I don't know what Boevis was ranting about there, his post is confusing.

I think hes trying to justify keeping a max stack of Lacerate ticking in between swipe spam.

This is 201.5 per tick of lacerate with mangle up.
The 4 is how many ticks he has before renewing.
The .2 is the threat modifier on lacerates bleed effects so the 806 bleed damage only works out as 161.2 damage worth of threat. Then he adds in the threat of the lacerate that hes using to renew the stack and adding the previous 4 (or next 4) mangle ticks to that lacerate's threat.

Lacerate threat is:
So his 295 flat threat figure includes the upfront damage of 50.

The bit that confuses me is the leap from a 456.2 threat lacerate stack refresh to a 272 swipe. I can't remember if swipe has a threat modifier but as far as I'm aware the old 175% one was removed n 2.0.10 and it was just pure damage done from then.

So the 272 figure is strange. Unless I'm totally missing something 456.2 is the exact damage swipe would need to do to beat even keeping lacerate up at all.

Including bearform and bearfiance the 272 is 394.4 threat whereas if you include that in the lacerate + 4 bleeds one it comes out at 661.49.

So to sum up as far as I'm aware, your lacerate is doing a flat 295 aggro on a hit. You also get maybe 1 tick per application for another 155/0.2 = 31 threat so 326 threat. So you'd need a 326 damage average on your swipe to beat this, less on bleed immune.

nice post dukes,

just a quick question tho, it's about haste rating, i've seen no post about it, not for druids anyway, if there is i can't find it, anyway, i just woundered if it's worth having for a druid, maybe not on the gear as such, but in trinkets etc, are we capped at the haste rating or can we get more if it's worth getting without sacrificing too much +hit/crit/AP?

More Voldin's spreadsheet stuff:
- Wildfury Greatstaff feral AP is wrong
- adding/removing GoA is changing my unbuffed DPS, for unknown reasons

Feature request:
- for non-bleedable, have a non-finisher cycle, i.e. mangle->shred till 12s->regen->mangle->shred till 12s->....

Add in a /use Master Healthstone in the last macro. As you can use pot+hs and still shift back. If it's a real emergency button

Is what I'm probably going to end up with. the modifier is so I don't press it by accident and leave while doing something important

I get the modifier, but I'm curious what "[nostance]" and "[nostance:1]" actually do in that macro.

On PTR I was using a very basic one:

#show Cat Form
/cancelform
/cast Cat Form (Shapeshift)


You can add the /use lines for potions, healthstones and anything else that doesn't use up a GCD right after /cancelform.

Also, is it possible to use modifiers inversely to how Nazta is using them? I.e. he's got the modifier to not /cancelform unless ctrl/alt are also pressed. I want the modifier to "/cast Cat Form (Shapeshift)" if ctrl/alt are NOT pressed. This is so I can use the same macro to return to caster form only if ctrl/alt are down, but otherwise shift me back to whatever form the macro is for. I hope that's not too confusing.

Macro broken down:
Cancelform: First part, the nostance side makes sure the game doesn't cancelform while I'm in bearform and press the macro. If I hold the modifiers down, it will leave even though I'm in bearform.
(You can add a "/stopmacro [modifier:ctrl/alt]" here. So it doesn't shift back in if you're holding one of those down. I don't have this, as I have a mount button that also leaves form for me, so if I want to press it and shift out, it's to shift right back(pvp to loose slowing effects)).
Second line just makes sure you don't cast the spell while in bear form, as this would make you leave bearform as well.

You can use the "[nomodifier]". But unless you're putting in more stuff it's not really needed. I was a little confused, because it sounded like you just want a normal button(one click to enter form and another click to leave form again).

By "average" I was refering to a non-crit swipe. My math was wrong though, as I was counting full damage from non-crits. It should be:

D = Damage
C = Crit %
H = Regular Hit %

456.2 = D * H + D * C * 2.2
or
456.2/(H + C * 2.2) = D

At 35% Crit and ignoring miss this resultes in a base damage of swipe being 321.26 in order to match Lacerate Refresh.

Also, DPS warriors in my guild don't sunder mobs that I'm tanking. This is because they hate me.

Not only do they hate you, but they also hate themselves and their guild 0o

You should maybe point out that stacking sunder will, aside from that undesirable increase in your threat, also result in a large DPS increase for: themselves, Rogues, Enhancement Shamans, Hunters, Retribution Paladins, (Felguards?!) and Cat Druids. Unless you're talking about trash, in which case it's understandable, and also not that big a deal. But on bosses, you need to pull some ears =x

I was screwing around in WSG tonight, and I found this macro to be pretty sweet, check it out.

/cancel form
/cast cat form

You won't even notice leaving caster form, and it gives you 40 energy with less then a second I think, to be honest it felt much faster then it was in 2.2. Also, any one think that the new mangle idol is amazing? proc rate seems insanely high.

It's not, you need to create a separate macro, and it doesn't always work, (high lag and other cooldowns will leave you in caster) It's decent though, I managed 1300 DPS on archimonde on a wipe attempt (0 melee bursts and Fear Ward on my shaman made it a very melee friendly fight)