Optimally aim for 295 resistance from your gear, as you'll get 70 from the hunter/paladin aura.

Yes, it is easy to stay crit immune.

I usually OT but had to MT last week and just used:

Earthwarden
Timelapse Shard
Adamantite Figurine
Shoulder defense enchant
Ironskin Potion

Just those alone get you to crit immunity against a lvl 73 mob.

Fill in the rest with greens to 295 resist and you are good to go. Optimally get the epic ring, JC neck, and the resist head enchant. Just use greens of >lvl 65 in other slots, can add those resist armor patches also.

Once you hit 295 resist, you should have room for 2-3 pieces of your normal tanking gear to help out your threat.

It's actually fairly easy and cheap to be both uncrittable and resist capped.

It can be done, though the warriors get showered in Resist gear and you'll have to grab greenie/blues of the AH for it. Preferably level 69-70 ones, for the far better stats on them.

Make sure you are the Nature res tank, if possible. The JC frost resistance ring is missing 16 stamina vs the Nature Res one.

One idea might be to try the various Nameds in the Ethereum Prisons (the single key/person ones, not the elites). The Frigid Band (frost) or Living Band (nature) are quite nice if you don't need the defense from a ring slot.

I emergency MTed hydross with about 220 resist (unbuffed). What we did was that we changed phases one mark earlier for me than for regular tank. Normaly we change at 5th mark, i was changing at 4th. It can be done if dmg is decent. If your other tank is well equipped is is probably possible to let him stay till 6th mark, too.

I was the frost phase tank for our guild since our first Hydross kill. Used a mix of Nax resi gear and greens and to be honest, was never crit immun. Crits are only dangerous with the 100% damage debuff on you. I think I got killed a few times while or after moving Hydross to phase 2 but never before. So usually a combat rez or soulstone could fix it.

There is one big advantage, Druids have over warriors as Hydross tanks, the pull. Shifting from stealth to bear direct in front of Hydross makes sure, that he will not move at all. But I heard the aggro range got nerfed, so its maybe not a problem anymore.

Aye, the Elixir of Ironskin is pretty nice -- it basically lets you wear any neck/trinket/ring combination (tanking oriented) without worrying about being crit.

---

That being said, it reminds me of the real problem I have with the end-game Feral druid experience: a clear lack of focus.

Ferals are the ultimate roll-switcher amungst the Druid specs, yet even in our most flexible configuration, we still cannot, even in the best gear, play like a "real" Feral Druid (ie. fill multiple rolls effectively without exiting combat and changing gear).

While some of this distaste may be due to the existance and overall worship of the conventional raid healing/dps meter, I feel the problem goes much deeper than being "80% of a rogue and 80% of a warrior."

Overall, I think Blizzard has done a really poor (and almost ignorant) job of providing us with a spec that scales and performs well in high-stamina/end-game envirnoments. Even after countless hours of play, I still don't exactly understand what Blizzard had planned for the Feral spec. Since hitting 70 in the Burning Crusade, we have been plagued with itemization problems -- serious itemization problems. No other class has suffered so greatly purely from developer ignorance.

However, without blabbing on about furthur Feral pitfalls, I'd like to express my concern about the lack of focus given to the Feral class and I worry the next expansion might bring more of the same. I think the Feral community should urge Blizzard to better define our class as the next expansion approaches.

---

Here are a few ideas I had about improving our spec and refining our focus:

Edgy's Wish List

I personally feel our spec should be far more damage (Cat) oriented: with the ability to offtank (Bear) or emergency heal (Cast) in the same set of gear.
-- by offtank, I mean similar to the role we play but less of an ability to main tank.
-- by heal, I mean have the freedom and sustainability to occasionally heal nearby players without serious mana concenrs (see below).

** We shouldn't require two (or more) distinct sets of gear: a true tank/dps hybrid should be able to do both effectively in the same set of gear. Instead, our itemization should encourage hybridization and well-rounded, roll-switching playstyles.

** Armor-laden weapons, trinkets, and rings are a pathetic fix for our class. It's like FAP, but worse because it consumes the item budget. All of our armor should come from traditional armor. Instead, Feral talents should provide an Improved Bear form which provides and improved armor modifier to compensate for the loss of armor.

** While in a Feral form, the damage done by physical DoTs (bleeds) should be mitigated by armor. (like Defensive Stance, Improved Defensive Stance, and Improved Righteous Fury)

** We should be crit immune (-5.6%) purely through Feral talents. We should never need to wear +defense/resilience to tank.

** Feral talents should make Agility provide additional effects in Feral and Caster forms:
-- Feral benefit: increase the chance of getting partial hits (ie. "almost dodged").
-- Caster benefit: increase mana regen (like Aspect of the Viper).

** Feral talents should make Strength provide additional effects in Feral and Caster forms:
-- Feral: reduce incoming damage by converting a percentage of the attack into a short-duration DoT effect (similar to a Block, but without any damage reduction; similar to Deep Wounds, except it reduces the initial damage by the total bleed damage).
-- Caster: increase +healing (like Nurturing Instincts)

Maybe a minor point but badge>moroes in my opinion - the longer duration on the dodge buff (20s vs 10s) is huge for fights like Gurtogg. If you aren't using the new Idol, get it, that's another ~4.5% dodge that should be up around 1/2 the time.

[e] Edgy/Raffy, that's a bit of an overly hopeful and unbalanced wishlist, I'm afraid. I don't want to be overly harsh, I think you have a few good ideas, you are particularly correct talking about the "fix" that we get through FAP which is plain stupid really, particularly considering how badly we scale with AP. However it seems like you want to be able to tank like a warrior, dps like a rogue, and heal like a shaman all in the same gear. That will never happen. What I will say is this, at various points in MH, obviously with gear changes, we can put out 1500 dps, tank trash & some bosses (usually Anetheron), and then add useful healing and decursing at Archimonde. I don't know what more you want than that.

This sounds very encouraging for our druid tank. I have checked the stats of the items you quoted, here is my calculation, please correct me if I'm wrong:

Earthwarden: 27 def rating
Timelapse Shard: 24 resi rating
Adamantine Figurine: 32 def rating
Greater Inscription of the Knight (Scryer): 15 def rating
Greater Inscription of Warding (Aldor): 10 def rating
Elixir of Ironskin: 30 resi rating

Total resi rating: 54
Total def rating: 74 (Scryer) or 69 (Aldor)
These give:
resilience: 54/39.4=1.371% anti-crit
defense: 74/2.37*0.04=1.249% anti-crit for Scryer (1.165% Aldor)

Total anti-crit: 2.620% Scryer, 2.536% Aldor.

Unfortunately, our druid is Aldor, so he will need one more item. However, overall this is extremely encouraging, thanks a lot for your input.

You mention wasted energy with reference to haste. Does haste increase energy regeneration rates? I wasn't aware that haste would increase energy regen, but I could be misinterpreting your statement.

The point he is making is that at a certain stage, with haste boosting attack speed and therefore Malorne 2 pc energy generation, you get more combo points than you can effectively convert into rips. At that stage it may well be worth subbing out the Malorne 2 pc for the "optimum" pieces for those slots.

Very, very lofty ideas. Poster above me summed it up well by saying Yeah, thats not going to happen anytime soon. The versatility that everyone seems to overlook with Feral spec is that we are afforded the ability to tank, DPS, and even heal (gear dependent) within the same spec. That is already a bone of contention with many other classes, especially warriors. I don't see Blizzard compounding the gripe by adding an all powerful set of armor, or even too many more caster oriented Feral talents (like N.I.). I am sure we could put together a true "hybrid" set of gear, it would probably look alot like S2 Gladiator, in that it affords us all the nifty stats we are so dependant on. The only problem with that is we will be thrust into mediocrity in every facit.

I would rather work hard farming/raiding to build min/max sets that optimize my role for a particular fight than to roll around with a single set of gear that lands me middle-of-the-road in every regard.

You can also aim only for 260 Resistance and drink a Chromatic flask, it stacks with the auras, many people don't know that because the old flask din't stack.

Well I am Top DPS in my guild, and Top Tank, so the guild puts me in DPS whenever the online Tanks are good, I have a Cat DPS gear and a Tanking one.

On my Cat DPS Gear, I have a trinket that wasn't posted here [Abacus of Violent Odds] in conjuntion with [Skyguard Silver Cross].
I would like to know if the Abacus trinket is better than the [Crystalforged Trinket].

And if I should try to replace either with [Bloodlust Brooch] or [Hourglass of the Unraveller] (these last 2 I don't have but I can get them easy)

In Cat form I have 3140 AP with 39.83% Crit Unbuffed(only Motw), I wonder if I should change Strength Gems/enchants I have for More Agility to Achieve more Crit, or there is a Crit Cap?

Fully Raid Buffed I get around 3550 AP and 46% Crit with [Elixir of Major Agility]

Well I leave the Armory link to my character where u can see the Gems and Enchants and Gear I currently have equipped. > The World of Warcraft Armory

Looking forward to keep Improving myself

DragonMaster

Yeah, it was a "wish list," however, my point was that I'd like to change how we function overall. I'd like less focus on primary tanking (feral talents should just provided an improved armor modifier which allows us, in full DPS gear, to offtank) in exchange for more flexibility and hybridization.

We shouldn't need to have two separate sets to offtank and DPS. If we're stuck full-time tanking something designed for a shield/plate-wearer, ie. Bloodboil, our competitiveness should come from purely from our stamina pool (via more stamina oriented gear, possibly offset items). However, for almost every other scenario, we should be able to primary DPS and effectively offtank in the same gear.

"You're wrong," I'm not exactly sure what you mean -- however, what you stated is basically exactly what I was saying above. Our primary role should DPS, and we should have the ability to either offtank or emergency heal. We are far more flexible in the DPS role, than in the tank role, however our primary raid role is offtanking.

In high-tier gear, in the DPS role, its much more viable to shift bear and offtank something (especially in T6) or shift caster and heal something. However, while tanking in DPS gear, our stamina pool is pathetic, our overall damage mitigation is spikey, and we're susceptible to crits. While healing in DPS gear, we have zero mana regen and no "hybrid" way of restoring it (see my idea above about "aspect of the viper" while in feral forms). In equivalent/traditional tank gear, our Cat DPS is significantly lower (due to wasted budget on defense, resilience, extra armor, and avoidance) and while active tanking, we're for the most part unable to heal (and still suffer from the same mana problems).

Overall, I'm pushing for something exactly like the S3 arena set for my "wish list" single PvE set. Amazing stamina and ideal for Cat DPS (agi, str, crit, hit, armor pen) except with armor values almost double their current PvP values. Remember, I want to completely abolish the idea of armor-laden weapons, rings, and trinkets (its a pathetic bandaid as mentioned above and completely goes against the idea of tank/dps hybrid). Our only primary tanking stat should be stamina if we're stuck in that roll for an entire fight.

Just look at the complete failure Blizzard gives us in terms of Armor progression:
-- Trinket: Badge of Tenacity, 308 armor, BoE available pre-kara
-- Rings: #1 is from exalted kara, #2 is from Magtheridon, the 2nd 25-man instance in outlands
-- Weapons: Earthwarden, a purchasable exalted cenarion reward, has the same armor as our best tanking weapon
-- In terms of our 5 pieces of tier gear:
T4: 16247 bear form armor, 158 stamina
T5: 16373 bear form armor (126 more armor), 196 stamina (38 more stamina, +1 socket)
T6: 17336 bear form armor (963 more armor than T5; 1089 more than T4), 217 stamina (21 more stamina, +1 socket than T5; 59 more stamina, +2 socket than T4)
[note: I ignored agility so the values would be a little higher but within ~100 armor]
-- Our only true armor upgrades for Feral came from our Belt and Boots.

So it's pretty clear, Blizzard has the same idea I have -- bear form should just be innately powerful for offtanking -- however they failed to implement proper itemization and insisted on requiring additional armor be gained through stupid items like armor rings, trinkets, and weapons. When clearly, a stronger Feral armor modifier should of been the solution. (I'm sure some of this failure relates back to the big stamina, armor, and damage nerf.)

Take a look at The Druid Wiki � ToskksDPSGearMethod if you haven't already. It will give you an idea, based on proven numbers, where you will find the largest upgrade in your DPS. That being said, my two cents would be to replace [Skyguard Silver Cross] with [Hourglass of the Unraveller], at least for raid DPS roles. The added AP from the proc will be more useful than the tiny amount of crit advantage on the SSC, especially considering that proc is wasted on most all boss fights.

As for [Abacus of Violent Odds], it isn't as effective for a druid as it is for a rogue because we are in essence swinging a 2 hand weapon on a 1 second swing timer, and thus the haste only increases the speed of 1 weapon versus 2 weapons with a rogue. I would personally pick up a [Bloodlust Brooch] to replace it. Again, mostly my opinion, but do some testing and see what works best for you.

If you have access to Zul'jin in ZA, the [Berserker's Call] is a phenomenal trinket, one well worth farming if you are able to.

I really don't see how any of that gear would be considered a failure. You in essence want us to be able to wear pure DPS gear and have talents that somehow modify our stats in bear form to up our AC...and stam...? I don't see why wearing "tank gear" to tank a mob denotes a failure on Blizzard's part in terms of itemization...

So you decided you don't like carrying two gear sets around/being forced to tank when you'd rather dps/etc, and went something like this:
"OK, so I don't like how druids are, lets buff this bit, and this bit, and this bit, that should do fine".

Sorry to say it so bluntly, but what the fuck were you thinking?

I am sorry if you dislike my "wish list" ideas -- its just some ideas, and I'm not asking for a buff. I am merely pointing out that with the next expansion, without significant changes, we cannot expect to scale properly. We will be once again plagued with itemization problems that won't be fixed until far into the content just like the Burning Crusade.

The cost of extra armor on regular armor, weapons, trinkets, and rings is too much to continue scaling properly (since theirs no default armor by default provided through item level on rings, weapons, or trinkets, for example). We have already experienced this problem in the Burning Crusade.

I'm struggling to understand the specifics of how a boss' parry mechanic works. I'm chalking this up to my lack of theorycrafting skills, so if anyone can dumb this down for me a little I'd appreciate it.

What I think I understand is that when a boss parrys you, their next swing gains a "haste type" buff making it land sooner. In Dukes' example he's looking at a 2.0 swing speed gaining a 40% speed buff. In my mind, this means that the melee hit is still going to hit for the same amount of damage it always does, it's just going to happen sooner. But then Dukes' says "you gain 20% damage per parry on an attack" which seems to mean to me that the next melee swing will do 20% more damage than the normal melee hit. Maybe it's just a wording thing, but to me this seems like two different things.

So my first question is, what should I be seeing when looking at parrys? The same amount of damage per melee swing, but more of them? Or, a slightly bigger melee swing after each parry?

Looking at my WWS stats from Morogrim last night brings me to my second question. I'm wondering if someone can clarify what these two separate columns in the WWS hit table for a mob are for?
So we've got the Normal melee swings and the Landed melee swings. Seems pretty straightforward, except I'm not sure what buffs, spells, abilities make his melee swings land for more than the normal. Is this a direct reflection of the damage he's gaining due to parrys? Or is it displaying the difference due to other factors?

Thanks very much if anyone can help me with this.

J

I am not a raiding druid and do most of my shape shifting in various Battle ground situations. lately I am finding that my shape shifting skills are extremely compromised. Up until the last few days, or current patch possibly, I was able to shift multiple times one after the other. I used this to good effect while in combat with mages who liked to drop ice all over the place.

The last few days when ever I try to shape shift I am getting stuck out of form and my macro seems to be nearly worthless. I did some macro modifications which helped a bit but still it's so annoying and at times fatal.

Am I alone in seeing this?

what I have tried is a basic macro with only one line: /Cast cat form. This has been effective in the past but I have also used the two line version: /cancel form /cast cat form.

In an attempt to see if I could do better I also tried /cancel form /cast cat form /cast dire bear form. This 3 line verison was handy because it seemed to work better and had the effect of working like a toggle switch. Each time I worked the macro if I was in cat form I switched to bear form and vice versa.

Perhaps I need to rework my macros or there really is a problem. I would like to know because I really enjoy this feral druid now and dont want to put him away waiting on a fix.

I realize that I may be on the squishy side still with barely 200 resiliance and a mixed bag of s1, s2, s3 and even some green gear but I am working my way down the list. I at least now have enough for the set bonus but still a ways to go.

please let me know as I am pretty sure I am not alone in this.

Thanks,

Horzy

It's the wording you are tripping over, you have the concept down I think.

Given an encounter with a set time, let's say 2 minutes, and a set swing speed of 2 seconds, you can figure out exactly how many times you will be hit. Now, when you parry a boss he receives a reduction in the time it takes for him to make his next attack. Ugh, I wanted to avoid math but here goes...

Based on our scenario you will be hit 60 times. Lets assume it is for a static amount, and in an effort to keep it easy on my brain lets say the boss hit's for 1000.

So, in the course of that fight, assuming either you do not parry, or their is no parry mechanic you will take 60,000 damage.

Now, when you parry and it speeds up his attack you are increasing the amount of swings that the boss can take in that 2 minute window. Using dukes math
5 parries (each parry providing a decrease in attack time of 0.4 seconds) will provide enough time (2 seconds of time saved) to add an extra attack inside our 2 minute window, thus increasing the damage dealt by 1000 over that 2 minute window, and an effective DPS increase of 8.333.

Parrys increase the amount of damage you would otherwise take in the same timeframe, not the amount of damage from the actual swing. It increases the DPS of the swing by up to 40%, i.e. 2 seconds, 10k damage, you take 5k DPS for that swing, whilst 2 seconds reduced to 1.2 seconds, 10k damage, you take 8.333k DPS for that swing.

For example:

1 minute of fighting. 2 second "normal" swing speed, 0 parrys = 30 hits.

1 minute of fighting, 2 second "normal" swing speed, 5 parrys, average case = 32 hits.
Why average case? It increases the speed of the swing from when you get the parry - if you get it half way through a swing, he'll only swing 0.4 seconds faster, and this will be the average amount you'll get over a statistically significant period of time.


Landed hits are all hits landed on you. Normal hits are all normal hits on you. Landed = Normal + (Crushing/Glancing), dependant on if it's your hits or hits on you.



It was suggested a couple of pages ago to use /cast !Cat Form, which others have confirmed works.



You should both read Elitist Jerks - Announcements in Forum : Public Discussion , especially the bit about signing posts

What bar mod do you use?

I would recommend bartender3 because it allows you to bind shapeshifting to keys and eliminates the need for macros. Actually, you really shouldn't need macros even with the default UI because of the addition of direct shifting 2 patches ago, so if you are getting stuck in caster, definitely get away from your macro's and go with the default shift keys.