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Old 11/21/07, 1:22 PM   #871
Valynon
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Earthen Ring
Originally Posted by droeber View Post
I don't have access to the T5 gear to test the 2pc bonus, but is it possible to make a macro that shifts out of bear form, casts regrowth, and then goes back into bear form? Might make a decent addition to the Healthstone/Pot panic button.
If the regrowth trips the global cooldown then no, you will be stuck in caster for 1.5 seconds. Not having 2 piece Tier 5 myself, I can't positively answer the question though.

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Old 11/21/07, 2:54 PM   #872
Voo
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad (EU)
Yes, the regrowth triggers the global cooldown, therefore useless whilst tanking.

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Old 11/21/07, 3:11 PM   #873
Artemas
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Stormrage
I'm desperately looking for help on how to DPS better.

My guild has 2 feral druids. My druid "senior" and I have similar stats. I use 4t6, while he's using 2t4 + 2t6. He already got hit capped, and I'm very very close that it's neglegible. For some reason, I could never seem to beat him in straight DPS fights. The most interesting thing is... somehow he manage to do more number of white damage hits than me. I would stand there behind the boss just like him, but, for example, he'd land 100 hits while I'd land 80 hits total (no Heroism). He haste no haste rating in his gear whatsoever.

I'm sure both of us use the same standard DPS cycle (4 pts "minimum" combo Rip => Mangle => Shred). The only thing that differ is the fact that I habitually use FFF every time I don't have energy to do anything (while he does a few FFF per boss fight). However, that shouldn't affect anything should it? After 2.3, I also powershift quite often when I have less than 10 energy. But I thought 2.3 instant shift shouldn't interfere with steam of white hits. Please correct me if I'm mistaken. Anyway, my white is usually 36%, Shred 27%, Rip 23% of all damage if it matters.

Do you think I'm doing anything wrong here? Frequent FFF + instant shift shouldn't delay white hits right? Is there anything I can do or experiment on to improve my DPS even furthur?

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Old 11/21/07, 3:38 PM   #874
Karmen
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Uldum
A regrowth with the 2T5 bonus causes a GCD so you would be stuck in caster form until the GCD is over.

Late Night Raiding www.skeletoncrew.org

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Old 11/21/07, 4:41 PM   #875
exarkun
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
<GLA>
Executus
Originally Posted by Artemas View Post
I'm desperately looking for help on how to DPS better.

My guild has 2 feral druids. My druid "senior" and I have similar stats. I use 4t6, while he's using 2t4 + 2t6. He already got hit capped, and I'm very very close that it's neglegible. For some reason, I could never seem to beat him in straight DPS fights. The most interesting thing is... somehow he manage to do more number of white damage hits than me. I would stand there behind the boss just like him, but, for example, he'd land 100 hits while I'd land 80 hits total (no Heroism). He haste no haste rating in his gear whatsoever.

I'm sure both of us use the same standard DPS cycle (4 pts "minimum" combo Rip => Mangle => Shred). The only thing that differ is the fact that I habitually use FFF every time I don't have energy to do anything (while he does a few FFF per boss fight). However, that shouldn't affect anything should it? After 2.3, I also powershift quite often when I have less than 10 energy. But I thought 2.3 instant shift shouldn't interfere with steam of white hits. Please correct me if I'm mistaken. Anyway, my white is usually 36%, Shred 27%, Rip 23% of all damage if it matters.

Do you think I'm doing anything wrong here? Frequent FFF + instant shift shouldn't delay white hits right? Is there anything I can do or experiment on to improve my DPS even furthur?

Is he using something like [Drums of Battle] and in a different party?

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Old 11/21/07, 4:48 PM   #876
Sarasper
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Whisperwind
Originally Posted by Artemas View Post
I'm desperately looking for help on how to DPS better.

My guild has 2 feral druids. My druid "senior" and I have similar stats. I use 4t6, while he's using 2t4 + 2t6. He already got hit capped, and I'm very very close that it's neglegible. For some reason, I could never seem to beat him in straight DPS fights. The most interesting thing is... somehow he manage to do more number of white damage hits than me. I would stand there behind the boss just like him, but, for example, he'd land 100 hits while I'd land 80 hits total (no Heroism). He haste no haste rating in his gear whatsoever.

I'm sure both of us use the same standard DPS cycle (4 pts "minimum" combo Rip => Mangle => Shred). The only thing that differ is the fact that I habitually use FFF every time I don't have energy to do anything (while he does a few FFF per boss fight). However, that shouldn't affect anything should it? After 2.3, I also powershift quite often when I have less than 10 energy. But I thought 2.3 instant shift shouldn't interfere with steam of white hits. Please correct me if I'm mistaken. Anyway, my white is usually 36%, Shred 27%, Rip 23% of all damage if it matters.

Do you think I'm doing anything wrong here? Frequent FFF + instant shift shouldn't delay white hits right? Is there anything I can do or experiment on to improve my DPS even furthur?
Do you swap idols in your rotation? If so then you will lose white hits.

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Old 11/21/07, 5:02 PM   #877
seminarca
Don Flamenco
 
Retired
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by anathor View Post
Maybe we should have a comparison of tier bonuses in the first post for tanking. [snip]
Purely by virtue of what's available to me at the moment, I'm still using 2T4 in my main tank set (Head and Chest), and whilst tanking anything significant, the extra Rage is superfluous. On trash, it's really nice, and also on threat intensive encounters like Void Reaver. But it's not something I would hang on to if I had options.

As you said, 4T4 is easily quantifiable, and 3T5 is a nice inflection point to lose it (even though you don't get anything worthwhile from 2T5, the extra stats and higher base armor on T5 will cover the loss of 4T4).

I wouldn't agree that tier bonuses don't bring much to the table for tanking, I think 2T6 is quite powerful for threat generation, although T5 bonuses are uniformly crap.

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Old 11/21/07, 5:02 PM   #878
Kadaan
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by Artemas View Post
I'm desperately looking for help on how to DPS better.

My guild has 2 feral druids. My druid "senior" and I have similar stats. I use 4t6, while he's using 2t4 + 2t6. He already got hit capped, and I'm very very close that it's neglegible. For some reason, I could never seem to beat him in straight DPS fights. The most interesting thing is... somehow he manage to do more number of white damage hits than me. I would stand there behind the boss just like him, but, for example, he'd land 100 hits while I'd land 80 hits total (no Heroism). He haste no haste rating in his gear whatsoever.

I'm sure both of us use the same standard DPS cycle (4 pts "minimum" combo Rip => Mangle => Shred). The only thing that differ is the fact that I habitually use FFF every time I don't have energy to do anything (while he does a few FFF per boss fight). However, that shouldn't affect anything should it? After 2.3, I also powershift quite often when I have less than 10 energy. But I thought 2.3 instant shift shouldn't interfere with steam of white hits. Please correct me if I'm mistaken. Anyway, my white is usually 36%, Shred 27%, Rip 23% of all damage if it matters.

Do you think I'm doing anything wrong here? Frequent FFF + instant shift shouldn't delay white hits right? Is there anything I can do or experiment on to improve my DPS even furthur?
Just throwing out some ideas:

Powershifting resets the energy tick timer, I'd assume it also resets the swing timer (since you're going from a 1.0s swing to whatever your melee weapon is and back.) Does anyone know for sure if this is the case?

Every point of hit makes a different till you reach the hit cap. Not a 20% difference if you're <1% from the cap, but it's still going to factor in. How about expertise? Dodges still count as misses in WWS iirc.

Any instant-cast spells shouldn't affect the swing timer, but have you run tests without using FFF to see if it makes a difference?

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Old 11/21/07, 6:20 PM   #879
Chuck
omgkittenmeowmeow
 
Chuck's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Kul Tiras (EU)
Stupid question .. i experimented on a macro today:

#showtooltip
/cancelform [noflying,nostance:3]
/use Master Healthstone
/cast Dire Bear Form
and it does exactly that even faster than you can see. Now the question is - while tanking a boss - will using that macro make it possible to be hit while in caster form?

Also this might be an absolute great option to finally use the 2pc T5 bonus

www.kul-tiras.org - unofficial EU-Kul Tiras Community

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Old 11/21/07, 6:23 PM   #880
mirarant
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Skullcrusher (EU)
Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
Stupid question .. i experimented on a macro today:



and it does exactly that even faster than you can see. Now the question is - while tanking a boss - will using that macro make it possible to be hit while in caster form?

Also this might be an absolute great option to finally use the 2pc T5 bonus

Combat logs so far have indicated that the shift back is instantaneous but it should be quite easy to test by anyone with any sort of mob.

You might want to read the page before this one if you are not familiar with how spells and GCD work.

No, you may not roll a spiked chain wielding half-ogre.

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Old 11/21/07, 6:44 PM   #881
Chuck
omgkittenmeowmeow
 
Chuck's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Kul Tiras (EU)
I know how spells and the GCD works and shifting isn't part of that mechanic anymore as far as I am aware.

www.kul-tiras.org - unofficial EU-Kul Tiras Community

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Old 11/21/07, 6:48 PM   #882
mirarant
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Skullcrusher (EU)
Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
I know how spells and the GCD works and shifting isn't part of that mechanic anymore as far as I am aware.
Perhaps I misunderstood what you wrote. In any case I do recall that the instant regrowth from 2 piece T5 causes a GCD making it a rather dangerous choice while tanking since you end up waiting the 1.5 seconds in caster form to be able to shift back.

No, you may not roll a spiked chain wielding half-ogre.

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Old 11/21/07, 10:38 PM   #883
Kieran
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Die Ewige Wacht (EU)
Edit: Disregard post, GCDs do not interfere with autoattacks.

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Old 11/21/07, 11:10 PM   #884
Solstice
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Sylvanas (EU)
Originally Posted by Artemas View Post
I'm desperately looking for help on how to DPS better.

My guild has 2 feral druids. My druid "senior" and I have similar stats. I use 4t6, while he's using 2t4 + 2t6. He already got hit capped, and I'm very very close that it's negligible. For some reason, I could never seem to beat him in straight DPS fights. The most interesting thing is... somehow he manage to do more number of white damage hits than me. I would stand there behind the boss just like him, but, for example, he'd land 100 hits while I'd land 80 hits total (no Heroism). He haste no haste rating in his gear whatsoever.

I'm sure both of us use the same standard DPS cycle (4 pts "minimum" combo Rip => Mangle => Shred). The only thing that differ is the fact that I habitually use FFF every time I don't have energy to do anything (while he does a few FFF per boss fight). However, that shouldn't affect anything should it? After 2.3, I also powershift quite often when I have less than 10 energy. But I thought 2.3 instant shift shouldn't interfere with steam of white hits. Please correct me if I'm mistaken. Anyway, my white is usually 36%, Shred 27%, Rip 23% of all damage if it matters.

Do you think I'm doing anything wrong here? Frequent FFF + instant shift shouldn't delay white hits right? Is there anything I can do or experiment on to improve my DPS even further?
The most important thing when trying to perform well on dps meters (which I don't condone) is to focus on the task at hand. i.e. DPS. As a druid, of any spec, you should be reasonably accustomed to adapting role depending on circumstances. But when you're trying to compete on meters you really have to be ruthless and just go all out; If xyz dies because you chose not to shift out and heal or go bear and tank that loose mob etc then that's the price you pay. When it comes down to pure numbers druids aren't that far behind other classes such as rogues/fury warriors; and if ranking well on DPS meters is your primary concern then it should be achievable - spamming mangle/shred/rip and staying in range isn't exactly rocket science.

Incidentally, if you're competing with another druid in DPS be sure to take into account who's applying mangle as it makes a huge difference to energy efficiency.

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Old 11/22/07, 3:36 AM   #885
spartakos
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Genjuros (EU)
There is also expertise.

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