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11/22/07, 7:06 AM
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#886
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Don Flamenco
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Not so much a /flex as a 'ok, here's where we can be now', but this last week has been incredibly fun for me.
Between potions 'in forms'(and drums!), the increased AP, and the resurgence of Powershifting, I was expecting quite a boost to my DPS, and I was not disappointed. On fights where I normally averaged from 1300-1400 DPS, I effortlessly muscled out 1500-1600. A few upgrades later, through ZA/Badges, I managed this gem:
Kaz'Rogal
Room for improvement, yes, and I'm technically off the hit-cap (Armory is bugged, so don't bother checking my gear!), but that is exactly what I was looking for, and exactly what I had calculated we were going to be capable of. I'm very excited at the prospect of certain upgrades in the near future, and can't wait for the S3 gear to hit, as the immediate upgrades will further boost my DPS by about another 50-100DPS.
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11/22/07, 9:58 AM
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#887
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Glass Joe
Tauren Druid
La Croisade Ecarlate (EU)
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My guild is actually at 3/5 hyjal and we killed naj'entus, supremus, shade of akam and teron in black temple, my current concern is wether I should take t6 immediatly for dps or use it for tanking, the reason for asking that is I feel that the t5 is enough to tank all I have to tank in those instances and t6 will provide a bigger upgrade to my dps gear.
Currently here is my roles on the boss we do:
Hyal:
- tank/dps on trashs depending on the number of tank warriors
- winterchill: dps
- anetheron: dps
- kaz'rogal: dps
- azgalor: tanking infernals
BT:
- naj'entus: dps
- supremus: tank (mainly because I feel completly useless as a dps on him)
- shade of akam: tanking the defenders for the whole fight
- teron: dps
I currently sit at 21k hp, 50% dodge (nearly 70% on wws reports since I have moroes trinket and ogri'la trinket) and 31k armor with always a shaman or priest healing me. Do you really think I need to improve those stats to tank the remaining bosses in bt and archimonde ?
Beside that I got [Staff of Primal Fury] two days ago and as others in this post I am really puzzled about its use (and why are those 70 stam doing here), I currenlty have the S2 weapon and I don't see the ZA staff as an upgrade, I prefer pure AP instead of the armor penetration. The only thing good in this staff is the insane amount of agility (I always raid with bok) which give me a little more crit, but is 0.3% crit (or so) really worth losing ~85 AP ?
I currently have 4500 PA (I have the chance to be in an optimised group with a shaman and a warrior)
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11/22/07, 12:38 PM
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#888
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Glass Joe
Tauren Warrior
Skullcrusher (EU)
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I think we should all start referring to that item with its real name [Staff of Primal Fury] to avoid confusion.
As you can see the ArPen (is this an acceptable abbreviation?) is actually an "Equip" effect, the "Use" was simply an error in the item description.
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No, you may not roll a spiked chain wielding half-ogre.
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11/22/07, 5:17 PM
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#889
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Don Flamenco
Retired
Tauren Druid
No WoW Account
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I noticed the OPs haven't been updated in a while. The pre and post 2.3 bits about stats are still there. The stuff about old Feral Combat Skill Rating needs to go.
Even though it mentions the 2.3 updates, the old info should be edited out (re leatherworking drums):
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These are not usable in forms and have a 0.5 second cast time currently, but in 2.3 they are both instant, and usable in forms.
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Grammar (first post):
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If you're read through the main posts ..
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I'm sure there's more =x
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11/22/07, 5:22 PM
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#890
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Sylvanas (EU)
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I realise I should probably drudge through the last few pages of this thread and check the most recent dps spreadsheets instead of asking this but meh.. too lazy. I'm wondering if anyone has worked out precise AEP values for feral dps stats since 2.3? Reason I ask is that I still see alot of questions arising concerning the benefit of being at the hit cap, or strength vs agility, or haste vs armor penetration etc, and I it would be useful to have a concise list of stat weightings assuming standard t6 level stats (eg 4500AP, 45% crit), maybe added to the first post in this thread.
Anycase it's safe to assume that agility and raw AP have increased in value relative to strength, crit rating and hit rating. Haste and Armor penetration should remain unchanged? Still, some exact numbers would be nice.
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11/22/07, 5:42 PM
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#891
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Don Flamenco
Retired
Tauren Druid
No WoW Account
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Toskk's model seems up to date with all the 2.3 changes, so nothing's stopping you from plugging in your input stats to get AEP values tailored for your personal gearset. As Enh Shamans went back and forth in their thread on this, people generally seem to struggle with the concept of AEP values being accurate at certain gear points and lots of confusion/argument can rise from that. Also, calculating AEP for stuff like APen (armor penetration) will vary greatly based on how much APen you already have (the more your have, the more valuable additional APen becomes, until the target hits 0 armor). You can have separate AEP sets for "Kara geared", "mid SSC/TK" and "MH/BT+" levels, but imo it's far more effective using one's own AEP values (the sims aren't hard to use).
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11/23/07, 12:00 AM
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#892
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Piston Honda
Orc Death Knight
Dunemaul
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Originally Posted by schmurfy
My guild is actually at 3/5 hyjal and we killed naj'entus, supremus, shade of akam and teron in black temple, my current concern is wether I should take t6 immediatly for dps or use it for tanking, the reason for asking that is I feel that the t5 is enough to tank all I have to tank in those instances and t6 will provide a bigger upgrade to my dps gear.
Currently here is my roles on the boss we do:
Hyal:
- tank/dps on trashs depending on the number of tank warriors
- winterchill: dps
- anetheron: dps
- kaz'rogal: dps
- azgalor: tanking infernals
BT:
- naj'entus: dps
- supremus: tank (mainly because I feel completly useless as a dps on him)
- shade of akam: tanking the defenders for the whole fight
- teron: dps
I currently sit at 21k hp, 50% dodge (nearly 70% on wws reports since I have moroes trinket and ogri'la trinket) and 31k armor with always a shaman or priest healing me. Do you really think I need to improve those stats to tank the remaining bosses in bt and archimonde ?
Beside that I got [Staff of Primal Fury] two days ago and as others in this post I am really puzzled about its use (and why are those 70 stam doing here), I currenlty have the S2 weapon and I don't see the ZA staff as an upgrade, I prefer pure AP instead of the armor penetration. The only thing good in this staff is the insane amount of agility (I always raid with bok) which give me a little more crit, but is 0.3% crit (or so) really worth losing ~85 AP ?
I currently have 4500 PA (I have the chance to be in an optimised group with a shaman and a warrior)
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Here's how tanking/DPS tier gear works.
You have five pieces of tier. Two of those will ALWAYS be Tier 4 for your DPS set (well, until sunwell). With Tier 6, you want at least two pieces available to go kittymewmewmew with, so you don't gimp your own DPS by wearing gear with tanking gems/enchants on it in place of DPS enchants. So what to do? Well, there's two pieces that you can put similar gems/enchants and get the same effect in DPS and tanking gear. Gloves with 15 agi are the best for tanking/dps, as well as a chest with +6 stats. Agi/stam and Agi/hit gems are good for both tanking and DPS. If you can't get the chest for somewhat obvious reasons, helm can be made into a DPS helm without too much sacrifice. [Relentless Earthstorm Diamond] Provides as many stat points as [Powerful Earthstorm Diamond], and the CE helm enchant has a great level of hit on it if you're already crit capped (17 dodge rating is horrible  ).
So, you wear two of Legs, Helm, Shoulders for t4, and then wear your hybrid pieces of t6.
As far as your stats...
Currently I reach 20k health fully raid buffed and elixir'd. I have 40% dodge without my [Idol of Terror] proccing, and 33k armor. You are seemingly stacking agi/stam over armor, which would indicate you're using more rogue gear in your tanking set than one should. Based on WowJutsu, you don't have your 4t4 yet, which makes me wonder what the hell you're using to break 20k health. Four piece tier 4 is unbreakable until you have 4t5 or 2t6 -- the armor makes everything. I haven't been able to get enough t5 or t6 yet to break the set, so I still wear it.
And as far as your weapon choice, Staff of Primal Fury wins over S2, loses over S3. The armor pen is worth it. Don't forget that armor pen also becomes more valuable as you get more of it, until about 2100 armor pen, where clothy bosses will be brought to 0 armor.
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11/23/07, 5:04 AM
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#893
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Bald Bull
Dukes
Tauren Druid
No WoW Account (EU)
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Originally Posted by seminarca
I noticed the OPs haven't been updated in a while. The pre and post 2.3 bits about stats are still there. The stuff about old Feral Combat Skill Rating needs to go.
Even though it mentions the 2.3 updates, the old info should be edited out (re leatherworking drums):
Grammar (first post):
I'm sure there's more =x
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I'll do it tonight - said I'd do it soon about a week ago and just haven't had the time free/motivation to do it really, but it does need doing (and I have fixed the grammar error, will have another check through for any more when I update the posts).
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11/23/07, 6:51 AM
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#895
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Boevis
Self Critic - I don't powershift nearly enough, but this is mostly due to lag. And as a druid, I feel it's my duty to IV, CR, and Regrowth when needed.
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Latency really isn't a good reason to not powershift now, so long as you have the macro space for a cat->cat macro. Just be sure to hit it when you aren't locked in a GCD, as you'll get stuck in caster form.
Also, why do you feel the need to EVER Regrowth someone? Even with 2T5, you're still firing off a mostly worthless heal, that's even further gimped by your feral gear. I suppose if you have 2 restos in the raid, you're potentially providing Swiftmend fodder, but even then, it's still going to be about 1/3 as big as the restos'.
Aside from that, yeah, I've always had the rule with the healers that they need to ask me for my innervate, especially since so many now have ways to get quite a bit of mana back in short amounts of time, particularly those that would time trinkets to innervates.
Nice damage too. 
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11/23/07, 7:22 AM
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#896
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Druid
Arthas (EU)
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About powershifting vs use of mana elsewhere.
I think when powershifting and using a specialized non-set dps-equipment, you would have to go for a spec that includes swiftshifting.
We currently only have access to 2 out of 5 T-6 Bosses, so I use 2 t-4 Parts and some non-set gear for dps, but haven't specced into swiftshifting. As a result I have to be very careful about powershifting. On fights like Gorefiend, I will be asked to shift at least twice for Innervate and Battlerez.
Powershifting in general I think is about squeezing every possible bit out of your character. Same counts for the 2xt5 instantheal. As an example: We downed Bloodboil twice and our tank setup was made up out of 2 2+T5 Druids and a Warrior. Each time Bloodboil felraged we both used that instant heal on the felraged tank and I watched it at least once have a positive impact, which might have been that little difference between life and death.
Yes the amount healed is pathetic but it's logic is similar to squeezing that last bit out your Druid.
I do powershift, but I use it carefully.
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11/23/07, 7:28 AM
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#897
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Great Tiger
Duilliath
Night Elf Druid
No WoW Account (EU)
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Originally Posted by Boevis
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How useful would that Braided Eternium Chain be for DPS, assuming you're not hit-capped ?
Compared to, say, the Mithril Chain ?
//edit: before people start - I have a hard time believing Emmerald's ranking in this particular case as it seriously looks like he only took the 21 hit rating into his calculations, rather than the +5 damage as well.
Last edited by Duilliath : 11/23/07 at 11:42 AM.
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11/23/07, 8:31 AM
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#898
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King Hippo
Tauren Druid
Outland (EU)
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Originally Posted by HaklePrime
Also, why do you feel the need to EVER Regrowth someone? Even with 2T5, you're still firing off a mostly worthless heal, that's even further gimped by your feral gear.
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I use 2T5 in my DPs gear purely so I can fire off this "worthless" heal. Sure it only hits for 1.6k or so, but that can definately make a difference. Fights like Anetheron, HWL Najentus even rage need a fair few healers the first time you see them, and the 2T5 bonus can save a persons life and turn a 35min trash clear to a win.
My guild usually runs healer light, its possible that for people who take an extra healer in their raids will have no use for this, but it definately has its uses for us on many fights =). Fights like Archimonde for example, I turn on my decurse mods and help decursing. It is not a DPS race, but that extra decurse and heal could easily make a difference between a wipe and a kill. I can recall instances where I know my heal saved the players life, it really does depend on lot on your raid make up.
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There is light at the end of the tunnel.
The only problem is, it's often an incoming train.
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11/23/07, 5:34 PM
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#899
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Bald Bull
Tauren Druid
Lightbringer
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Originally Posted by HaklePrime
Also, why do you feel the need to EVER Regrowth someone? Even with 2T5, you're still firing off a mostly worthless heal, that's even further gimped by your feral gear. I suppose if you have 2 restos in the raid, you're potentially providing Swiftmend fodder, but even then, it's still going to be about 1/3 as big as the restos'.
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Azgalor, Archimonde, Naj'entus, Bloodboil, and Council all give me plenty of reason to regrowth, even if it's only myself. Sure it's not necessary all the time, I'm sure I've gone through several Azgalor and Archimonde without healing. But after breaking Naj's shield, or Fel Rage when all 3 tanks have 8+ DoT stack and the Rage is on a Mage (worst class to get it IMO), and everyone gets AoE/Deadly/Envenom at some point on Council. When you have something like Tranquility and Instant Regrowths (perfect for healing while running) why wouldn't you? It may just be my instincts leftover from pre-BC resto, but many of my guild's first kills were in part due to me choosing 2k healing over 2k damage.
How useful would that Braided Eternium Chain be for DPS, assuming you're not hit-capped ?
Compared to, say, the Mithril Chain ?
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1 dmg was previously proven at always over 12 ap (varied with crit). I think post 2.3 it's between 10-11 eap, with crit and crit at around 1.8 eap:
5*10 + 21*1.8 + 28*1.8 ~= 138.2
[Mithril Chain of Heroism]
28*2.5 + 22*2.9 = 133.8
Of course, that's with the "use" effect, which I only used to use for hard fights (Archimonde/Council/Illidan) but for epeen sake I started using on DPS fights.
Last edited by Boevis : 11/23/07 at 6:20 PM.
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11/24/07, 10:11 AM
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#900
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Kil'Jaeden (EU)
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vs
for dps :S?!
Last edited by Elawopwn : 11/24/07 at 10:21 AM.
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