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Old 11/29/07, 11:25 AM   #961
Dyvozvir
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Turalyon (EU)
Seems you have nothing common with math, and numbers at all. read my first post (where i have used 0.85 * 12/14). After it i said 12/14 should be 10/14. So the final number is ~122 kitty points.
and about that 4 second are out from mangle... this is NOT included for a reason, that is why 10/14 is used.
Cant you see it: lets say your Z time dps cycle is effected by buff A with duration X and percent B to apply.
A*B*(X/Z).

In other words do math:
3.1*65*0.85*10 is AEP for 10 sec WITH buff
0*65*0.85*4 is AEP for 4 sec WITHOUT buff (ZERO)
(3.1*65*0.85*10 + 0*65*0.85*4) / 10+4 = (3.1*65*0.85*10)/ 14~= 122
BUT effect of agi is greater for shreds than for a rip, so that number can be even higher.
Now you got it I hope?

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Old 11/29/07, 12:43 PM   #962
Astrylian
Rawr
 
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Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
New version of Rawr is posted, Beta 9!

The Druid Wiki » Rawr

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Old 11/29/07, 2:59 PM   #963
Baggles
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by Kulo View Post
I have a question related to Hyjal trash. Does anyone know of a mod that will add a mobs target to its nameplate? I would like to be able to taunt off of and NPCs that pull aggro without tab targeting throught the whole mess.
I tried using tags to program this into Aloft and it did not work for mobs that I was not targetting. I know it is possible to determine target target in a tooltip by mousing over, but I don't think it is possible to code something to dynamically detect the targets of mobs you are not targetting or mousing over.

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Old 11/29/07, 3:11 PM   #964
Baggles
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by Dyvozvir View Post
Seems you have nothing common with math, and numbers at all. read my first post (where i have used 0.85 * 12/14). After it i said 12/14 should be 10/14. So the final number is ~122 kitty points.
and about that 4 second are out from mangle... this is NOT included for a reason, that is why 10/14 is used.
Cant you see it: lets say your Z time dps cycle is effected by buff A with duration X and percent B to apply.
A*B*(X/Z).

In other words do math:
3.1*65*0.85*10 is AEP for 10 sec WITH buff
0*65*0.85*4 is AEP for 4 sec WITHOUT buff (ZERO)
(3.1*65*0.85*10 + 0*65*0.85*4) / 10+4 = (3.1*65*0.85*10)/ 14~= 122
BUT effect of agi is greater for shreds than for a rip, so that number can be even higher.
Now you got it I hope?
You can grind numbers all you want, the Everbloom Idol will consistantly outperform the Idol of Terror, unless you have some ridiculous amount of ap contrasted with an extremely low crit rate. The shred idol is worth ~500 ap on shred, which is ~35-40% of overall damage, 100% of the time. The agi idol applies to ~80% of total damage, and when averaged even with supposed 85% uptime (which I also don't believe, as I mangle once every 12-14 seconds, as opposed to bear where I mangle every six), it doesn't work out to even close to the same AEP as Everbloom. Unless you are having a lot of trouble generating CP to maintain cycles, I would really recommend sticking to everbloom for dps. Even if Idol of Terror had a 100% chance to proc, it'd be inferior for pure dps, in my estimation.

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Old 11/29/07, 3:43 PM   #965
Taiowa
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Sisters of Elune
Originally Posted by Baggles View Post
I tried using tags to program this into Aloft and it did not work for mobs that I was not targetting. I know it is possible to determine target target in a tooltip by mousing over, but I don't think it is possible to code something to dynamically detect the targets of mobs you are not targetting or mousing over.
Yeah, I use TinyTip to display target of mouseover'd mob. It's not very useful for situations when you don't have a lot of visibility (tanking Hydross adds underneath him, managing large AOE packs, etc.). It works well enough for big, but not that big pulls (Shattered Halls with minimal CC, etc.).

I'm not in Hyjal yet, so I can't tell you if it does the job there.

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Old 11/29/07, 3:48 PM   #966
Gevaudan
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad
Hey fellas. thanks for the wealth of info. I was wondering with the recent changes for +hit to affect growl and demo roar, what would be the optimal +hit for a full tanking set and at what level of endgame.

I'm a kara decked feral tank minus a gilded thorium, have all the rogue loot out of kara with +hit if I so dared to integrate. My guild is only at the kara/gruul/za level slowly introducing ourselves to SSC. I've noticed alot of unwanted growl resists in Gruuls even before 2.3 so I picked up a Waistguard of the Great Beast (+18hit) recently out of needed desperation and tossed a +4hit/agi in it with a stam so currently my +hit is sitting at a measly 22, but it is atleast better than my previous 0.

Do you think that should be ok at my level of endgame? The recent patch has made me quite self-conscience about +hit. Also I was curious of how much +hit the BT/t6 level tanks were wearing. Maybe I should start being more gear flexible for different situations? I'm always in a heavy tank set unless im cat dps of course.

Sorry if I missed this specific topic somewhere.

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Old 11/29/07, 4:35 PM   #967
Baggles
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Hyjal
I don't take thick hide in my talent build, because I sit at the armor cap as is. However, I've found myself wanting to take it so I can sub out a bit of armor for +hit, as it can be pretty valuable. Currently, I sit with +27 hit just from t6 legs, but I sub out belt and bracer for +hit purposes and it puts my threatgen through the roof. However, if my guild wasn't a bunch of aggro whores with insane gear, I probably wouldn't have to make this sacrifice. The bottom line is that hit IS valuable, but unless threat gen for you is a real problem, you're better off being a more solid tank and maybe subbing in a piece or two of +hit.

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Old 11/29/07, 5:31 PM   #968
Tuhalu
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Gevaudan View Post
Do you think that should be ok at my level of endgame? The recent patch has made me quite self-conscience about +hit. Also I was curious of how much +hit the BT/t6 level tanks were wearing. Maybe I should start being more gear flexible for different situations? I'm always in a heavy tank set unless im cat dps of course.
At your level of gear, there is only a few things you can do.

Glyph of Ferocity (16 hit)
Brooch of Deftness (22 hit)
Waistguard of the Great Beast (18 hit)
Spicy Hot Talbuk (20 hit)

Along with Earthwarden, that will give you 76 hit rating and 11 Expertise before gems (~4.8% hit rating and 2.75% less dodges and parries). If this is your armory (you should probably add that into your profile!), then I'd suggest about all you need is maybe to swap out Darkmoon Card: Madness for Timelapse Shard (27sta, 21 resilience is pretty nice for bear tanking if you need the crit reduction) and you'd be set for crit reduction and hit rating at your level of progression.

With PVP gear, you can do a lot more. The Vengeful Gladiator's set has a lot of items with +hit on it and with a couple of those, the Vindicator's Dragonhide Bracers and a couple of druid tank rings, you can easily cap your crit reduction.

At the T6 level:
Pepe's Shroud of Pacification (25 hit)
Thunderheart Leggings (27 hit)
Pendant of Titans (20 hit and great defensive stats)
Boots of Natural Grace (14 hit)
Band of the Abyssal Lord (21 hit)

With that, plus Glyph of Ferocity and Waistguard of the Great Beast you'd be at 141 hit rating, but no Expertise.

With my current gear I'm able to sport a respectable 114 hit rating and 5 Expertise, while still being uncrittable, getting 50%+ dodge (sometimes spikes to 65%+ with Idol of Terror and Band of Tenacity going off), 19k hp, 33.5k armor and about 3000 AP in a raid situation. It also includes a Medallion of the Horde since the resilience and ability to trinket out of a stun or mind control is kind of nice. That would be 134 hit rating if I actually used the Hit food over Agi food.

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Old 11/29/07, 5:32 PM   #969
Seraphus SC
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Priest
 
Scarlet Crusade
I am an officer of a casual raiding guild seeking information of the value of the Darkmoon Card: Wrath trinket for Feral Druids. Everything i have read here and elsewhere, with one exception, suggests one's trinket slot would be better served by another item.

As i understand things, this is a trinket of meager value for Feral Druids seeking to do damage, either in PvE raids or PvP. Most Feral Druids already have a relatively high crit percentage - the higher one's crit rating, the less of an actual return this trinket provides, at least in and of itself.

However, I have read about a rogue who chose to avoid crit. rating on his gear, instead focusing on +Hit & AP, increasing the crit. bonus from the Wrath Card and the damage of his crits. The rogue claimed this gear strategy made the Wrath Card one of the best trinkets available for him bar none. No parses were provided to back up this claim.

Could the same tactic be a valid gear strategy for a Feral Cat seeking to do DPS as well?

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Old 11/29/07, 5:37 PM   #970
Karmen
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Uldum
I don't think so. Considering most of our crit comes from heavy agility stacking which you should do regardless then I don't see how you could end up with a purposely low crit rate to make that trinket viable but yet not have totally gimp stats.

Late Night Raiding www.skeletoncrew.org

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Old 11/29/07, 5:39 PM   #971
Astrylian
Rawr
 
Astrylian's Avatar
 
Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Seraphus SC View Post
I am an officer of a casual raiding guild seeking information of the value of the Darkmoon Card: Wrath trinket for Feral Druids. Everything i have read here and elsewhere, with one exception, suggests one's trinket slot would be better served by another item.

As i understand things, this is a trinket of meager value for Feral Druids seeking to do damage, either in PvE raids or PvP. Most Feral Druids already have a relatively high crit percentage - the higher one's crit rating, the less of an actual return this trinket provides, at least in and of itself.

However, I have read about a rogue who chose to avoid crit. rating on his gear, instead focusing on +Hit & AP, increasing the crit. bonus from the Wrath Card and the damage of his crits. The rogue claimed this gear strategy made the Wrath Card one of the best trinkets available for him bar none. No parses were provided to back up this claim.

Could the same tactic be a valid gear strategy for a Feral Cat seeking to do DPS as well?
I wouldn't think so. Cats should have the highest crit rate of any dps class/spec in the game. That makes DmC: Wrath pretty sucky.

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Old 11/29/07, 5:44 PM   #972
Tuhalu
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
No. For Rogues, the difference between Agility and AP is not as huge as it is for Druids. So while I suppose it may be possible for a rogue to do something very strange like that (and you'd probably have to equip some pretty inferior items to do that), it should be virtually impossible for a Druid short of one wearing nothing but "of the Bear" gear. Which would be very very bad.

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Old 11/29/07, 9:07 PM   #973
Boevis
Bald Bull
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Lightbringer
Originally Posted by Rapparee View Post

Finally the azgalor wave 6, i believe that's the one, it has way too many necros and banshees. A shaman runs way down the path and just starts dropping totems as he runs back. This kind of splits up the caster mobs a little so they don't slaughter the NPCs or your tank.
We have an elem shaman and a hunter kite mobs back to Thrall and the Tauren warriors on most waves, on wave 5 we simply banish one of the felhounds so they don't reset and let the NPC's soak the first wave of spells (usually Thrall's ghost wolf totem does the trick)

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Old 11/30/07, 6:18 AM   #974
Daboran
King Hippo
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Boevis View Post
We have an elem shaman and a hunter kite mobs back to Thrall and the Tauren warriors on most waves, on wave 5 we simply banish one of the felhounds so they don't reset and let the NPC's soak the first wave of spells (usually Thrall's ghost wolf totem does the trick)

Definitely. If your kiters are good at their jobs they can have every Tauren in the camp beating on the banished Felhunter at the end of the previous wave.

Just get everyone in the raid apart from the MT behind the Felhunter/Tauren spot away from the incoming mobs. The MT pops spellreflect and as soon as the mobs cast at him runs to the raid. Taurens go in and "wtfpwn" all the mobs with stuns. Your crowd control and dpstrain can take it from there while the tanks round up any strays.

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Old 11/30/07, 7:18 AM   #975
stayclean
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Rogue
 
Barthilas
Originally Posted by Boevis View Post
We have an elem shaman and a hunter kite mobs back to Thrall and the Tauren warriors on most waves, on wave 5 we simply banish one of the felhounds so they don't reset and let the NPC's soak the first wave of spells (usually Thrall's ghost wolf totem does the trick)
That's similar to the way we do this wave. On wave 5, one of the hunters kites an abom up to the taurens, and then brings it back to the raid. Sometimes we need to make them chain kill stuff, since if they kill the abom and are too far away from another mob they will reset. So we'd put a felhound near them for example.

Then we slowly dps everything down and wait for the huge pack of casters to come from the next wave. Once they arrive the taurens get right in there and chain stun everything, which means we can just aoe it down :P

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