I use it and make up the difference with an ironskin elixir. With the kara/mag rings, slikk's cloak of pacification, necklace of the juggernaut/pendant of titans, KoT helm enchant, and scryer shoulder enchants, you only need 1 enduring talasite/seaspray emerald to hit the uncrittable mark with an ironskin elixir. And with the help of your program, Rawr, it comes out to be better survivability/mitigation with my current gear than just going with the S3 bracers and a def enchant while using an elixir of fortitude or a flask of fortification.
Very cool. That's the sort of thing I made Rawr for.
Now I was wondering which set of trinkets would be better. I just got the Berserker's Call today and have the Hourglass from BM and Bloodlust Brooch. Would using Berserker's Call and Bloodlust brooch consecutively be better than Berserker's Call and the hourglass?
Tanking upgrade for us Druids: Collar of the Pit Lord: 63 stamina, 29 expertise rating, 25 defense rating.
The Stamina and Defense Rating combination is nice, but what really sells it for me is the hefty helping of Expertise Rating. Just perfect for the Threat Off-Tank role that Druids so often play.
Now I was wondering which set of trinkets would be better. I just got the Berserker's Call today and have the Hourglass from BM and Bloodlust Brooch. Would using Berserker's Call and Bloodlust brooch consecutively be better than Berserker's Call and the hourglass?
I'm assuming you mean for dps? Theoretically, Beserker's/Bloodlust combo is better long-term dps, but in practice I've found a lot depends on your crit rate and general level of gear.
I valued crit a lot more until I started to find myself at the level where I'm sitting at 70-80 energy and having to Shred again before Rip runs out. I also find myself using Hourglass a lot still simply because it's a proc effect rather than having to remember to "use" it.
Aye, that's a sureshot replacement for Brooch of Deftness (which I have used religiously since it was released).
It only has 3.50% avoidance reduction (1.75% dodge/parry each) vs the Brooch's combined of 3.89% (1.39% from hit and 1.25% dodge/parry each), but with a substantial Stamina upgrade, and the added bonus of Defense (which the Brooch was sorely lacking)!
With the new head enchant and an ironskin elixir we get a solid 50 resilience. The only way to not get the ~1,3% crit immunity you miss is to use rings, necks, backs with agility instead of defense (no more pvp gear,+def trinkets, or +res +def enchants).
Cloak seems a little stale at high end considering armor and anti-crit is something you really don't need more of (... okay, Signet of Eternal Life is a different story!), but for its position, i.e. accessible to a new 70 druid tank, it's an amazing piece.
Pure mitigationwise, it's not even as good as the blue Karazhan rep ring, but very cute nonetheless:
Band of Determination
Binds when picked up
Unique-Equipped
Finger
252 Armor
+35 Stamina
Requires Level 70
Equip: Increases your expertise rating by 17 (4.31 @ L70).
Threw the new loot into my spreadsheet. It looks like the best options for DPS are as follows.
Thunderheart Cover
Mantle of Malorne (I know you didn't want to hear that)
Bladed Chaos Tunic
Thunderheart Wristguards
Gauntlets of Malorne (Damn you set bonuses that scale so well with gear)
Thunderheart Waistguard
Leggints of the Immortal Night
Thunderheart Treads
Can You please give a link where we can download Your newest spreadsheet? With 2.4 items.
Astrylian, what's a quick way of plugging in new items to rawr (short of manually editing the ItemCache.xml file)? If manual editing is the only way, can you make an updated ItemCache.xml file including all this new stuff available (I assume you've done this already, at least partway, to produce the list you posted earlier today)? Just to make sure you catch them all: Items - World of Warcraft
All new 2.4 items usable by Druids, unfortunately it includes cloth and caster jewellery which you'll need to filter out somehow.
Pure mitigationwise, it's not even as good as the blue Karazhan rep ring, but very cute nonetheless:
Band of Determination
Binds when picked up
Unique-Equipped
Finger
252 Armor
+35 Stamina
Requires Level 70
Equip: Increases your expertise rating by 17 (4.31 @ L70).
...but at least you won't be fighting the Warriors for it
This is the type of thing I'm looking for, except it would be nice to see a better version with some +dodge/+resil/+def
Also worth noting - The Shard of Contempt (assuimg a 25% uptime on the proc) is by far better than any other DPS trinket available. (Including the almighty DST)
What numbers are you using to arrive at that conclusion? Just using the values toskk gives me, 44 expertise would be 100 points and with a 25% uptime 240/4 = 60.
Madness and DST both seem better. But I'm just blindly looking at numbers so please correct me if I'm wrong.
Based on the preliminary analysis of the 2.4 items, i'd say that it's not even worth using 4t6 anymore (let alone 2t4/4t6). The new nonset rogue items are just so insane that they outweight the set bonus completely.
Also worth mentioning that i scratch the 2k DPS with all 2.4 items available.
I'll post details as soon as i'm sure i made no major mistake.
Edit: Ok, turned out i underestimated t6, it's still worth using 4 pieces, t4 seems out of the equation though.
This is what i came up with as the new ultimate list (counting only the new token items, i don't know what else there might be in sunwell).
Duplicitous Guise
Telonicus's Pendant of Mayhem
Thunderheart Pauldrons
Thalassian Wildercloak
Bladed Chaos Tunic
Thunderheart Wristguards
Shadowed Gauntlets of Paroxysm
Thunderheart Waistguard
Leggings of the Immortal Night
Thunderheart Treads
Stanchion of Primal Instinct
Signet of Primal Wrath
Band of the Eternal Champion
Madness of the Betrayer
Dragonspine Trophy
6075 AP / 53.64 % Crit
~ 1968 DPS not counting drums, bloodlust and the more exoting raid buffs (factored in adamantite weightstones though).
What about for a dps set, using the t6 gloves instead of the helmet, then using the t4 shoulders and helm? Also, could you post the estimated DPS value using your setup Voldin, so we can compare? I'd post one myself, but I haven't uploaded Rawr or your spreadsheet with any of the new items yet.
Astrylian, what's a quick way of plugging in new items to rawr (short of manually editing the ItemCache.xml file)? If manual editing is the only way, can you make an updated ItemCache.xml file including all this new stuff available (I assume you've done this already, at least partway, to produce the list you posted earlier today)? Just to make sure you catch them all: Items - World of Warcraft
All new 2.4 items usable by Druids, unfortunately it includes cloth and caster jewellery which you'll need to filter out somehow.
Honestly, Rawr doesn't handle items that aren't in the armory very well. It'll query the armory and have to time out for each one you add in the item editor. I added em manually in code, and you could just add them in xml. But yeah, I added all those items in my review post... I'm missing a few newer items though, I'll add those when I have a chance today, then post my itemcache.xml.
Based on the preliminary analysis of the 2.4 items, i'd say that it's not even worth using 4t6 anymore (let alone 2t4/4t6). The new nonset rogue items are just so insane that they outweight the set bonus completely.
Also worth mentioning that i scratch the 2k DPS with all 2.4 items available.
I'll post details as soon as i'm sure i made no major mistake.
Edit: Ok, turned out i underestimated t6, it's still worth using 4 pieces, t4 seems out of the equation though.
This is what i came up with as the new ultimate list (counting only the new token items, i don't know what else there might be in sunwell).
Duplicitous Guise
Telonicus's Pendant of Mayhem
Thunderheart Pauldrons
Thalassian Wildercloak
Bladed Chaos Tunic
Thunderheart Wristguards
Shadowed Gauntlets of Paroxysm
Thunderheart Waistguard
Leggings of the Immortal Night
Thunderheart Treads
Stanchion of Primal Instinct
Signet of Primal Wrath
Band of the Eternal Champion
Madness of the Betrayer
Dragonspine Trophy
6075 AP / 53.64 % Crit
~ 1968 DPS not counting drums, bloodlust and the more exoting raid buffs (factored in adamantite weightstones though).
That is a bit of a surprising result. I expected we would still have to keep 2t4. Was this using Tossk's? Also a bit surprised that the Shadowed Gauntlets were good enough to switch from Thunderheart Gloves to Shoulders.
That is a bit of a surprising result. I expected we would still have to keep 2t4. Was this using Tossk's? Also a bit surprised that the Shadowed Gauntlets were good enough to switch from Thunderheart Gloves to Shoulders.
Actually using toskk it will still be better to use t4 shoulders and gloves, but only by like 50 points. At that level i would probably pick the best pieces if they were available since not all fights are teron gorefiend.
GG blizzard for loading crit on druid pieces. Sigh.
Anyway, I'll run the new gear through my own sheet. I expect much the same result in the end as BeldDD, despite the sheet's unexplained preference for hitting the hit cap.
I expect 2T4 to remain the best option, but the margin should be getting thinner and the sheer number of Ilvls you give up is mounting. I am suprised that the DST makes the list.
GG blizzard for loading crit on druid pieces. Sigh.
Anyway, I'll run the new gear through my own sheet. I expect much the same result in the end as BeldDD, despite the sheet's unexplained preference for hitting the hit cap.
I expect 2T4 to remain the best option, but the margin should be getting thinner and the sheer number of Ilvls you give up is mounting. I am suprised that the DST makes the list.
There is nothing wrong with crit rating. We're mostly hit capped at this point, and stacking agility on top of the high agility we're already gaining will only makes deminishing returns kick in in terms of item points investment.
That is a bit of a surprising result. I expected we would still have to keep 2t4. Was this using Tossk's? Also a bit surprised that the Shadowed Gauntlets were good enough to switch from Thunderheart Gloves to Shoulders.
No, i'm using my own calculator (i brute force try out all combinations from a selected item pool) but the results are very similar (i'm basically using the same model).
2t4 / 4t6 still comes very close but at this point i'd prefer to upgrade if i can.
I'm assuming you mean for dps? Theoretically, Beserker's/Bloodlust combo is better long-term dps, but in practice I've found a lot depends on your crit rate and general level of gear.
I valued crit a lot more until I started to find myself at the level where I'm sitting at 70-80 energy and having to Shred again before Rip runs out. I also find myself using Hourglass a lot still simply because it's a proc effect rather than having to remember to "use" it.
To solve the "use" effect issue I just bound my trinkets to rip so whenever the CD is up it'll buff my rip.
No, i'm using my own calculator (i brute force try out all combinations from a selected item pool) but the results are very similar (i'm basically using the same model).
2t4 / 4t6 still comes very close but at this point i'd prefer to upgrade if i can.
I also did some calculations and got similar solutions. It seems like t4 shoulders + gloves, the three new T6 pieces and the Head + rogue sunwell loot is at least as good as using 4t6 with t6 shoulders + rogue sunwell loot. Don't forget that the haste on the new items buffs 2t4 as well.
And tbh I think it makes more sense to save the BKP and get a nice trinket (no luck with DST or the talisman from Leo..). Both variantes are more or less equal to each other and I'm not interested in spending DKP just for a style upgrade.
I'd like to see WWS reports of dps feral druids with 4pc T6 and also using the new 2.4 leather (non-set bonus), but I'd still would go with 4pc T6. I must say, some of the new gear does look amazing.
Duplicitous Guise
Telonicus's Pendant of Mayhem
Thunderheart Pauldrons
Thalassian Wildercloak
Bladed Chaos Tunic
Thunderheart Wristguards
Shadowed Gauntlets of Paroxysm
Thunderheart Waistguard
Leggings of the Immortal Night
Thunderheart Treads
Stanchion of Primal Instinct
Signet of Primal Wrath
Band of the Eternal Champion
Madness of the Betrayer
Dragonspine Trophy
6075 AP / 53.64 % Crit
~ 1968 DPS not counting drums, bloodlust and the more exoting raid buffs (factored in adamantite weightstones though).
108 hit only. Unless You plan to put 4 +10 hit gems.
02/11/08, 1:02 AM
Theoretically, Beserker's/Bloodlust combo is better long-term dps, but in practice I've found a lot depends on your crit rate and general level of gear.
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