well that answers that question nicely :p

I did not test it yet (i am farming ZA at least once a week since the patch, yet i got none of the armor penetration drops i want there), but i think that it is useful stat for druids.

First my stats fully buffed (without enha shaman): 4000 attack power, 50% crit chance, 136 hit rating.

I will get 600 armor pen (chest, belt and staff). I am currently working on the timed event to get to the ring, that would be another 125.

I once calculated that on typical raid boss (including CoR, FF and sunder), CoR gives about 6% melee dmg increase. CoR is 800 armor down. So with 700 i expect about 5% damage increase. 20% dmg is from rip, so 4% dmg increase in total.

According to wowwiki, armor pen stat value is expected to be 0.1. So 700 armor pen could be 70 crit rating, for example, or 70 strenght. I do not think that 70 agi could be put there as agility already is on most of the items.

70 crit rating =~ 3.3% to crit, in my opinion this can not increase my dmg by more than the armor penetration but i am not able to proof it in theory.
70 strenght =~ 170 attack power, will that give me 4% dmg increase? I do not think so but again i am not able to proof it in theory.


I'd be glad if you check my arguments, since i did not think about them thoroughly and there might be some basic oversight from my side.

Since everything in the game is within, or soon to be within my grasp, I'm playing with some ultimate builds, and would like some input.

All these builds are with ALL buffs/debuffs into account (but not procs).

Build #1 Stay-puff Marshmallow Bear
Health: 28774
Armor: 30782/72.02%
Dodge+Miss:60.38%
Total Mitigation: 86.81%

One thing this build gets that the others don't is near full benefit from Ancestral Fortitude/Inspiration proc (the others are too close to the cap to get much/any benefit from it). WITH this proc this build becomes:

Health: 28774
Armor: 38478/75.00%
Dodge+Miss:60.38%
Total Mitigation: 88.21%

Build #2 Balanced with a Stamina focus
Health: 25771
Armor: 36730/75%
Dodge+Miss: 65.46%
Total Mitigation: 89.49%

Build #3 Balanced
Health: 24060
Armor: 36582/75%
Dodge+Miss:73.13%
Total Mitigation: 91.4%

Build #4 Can't Touch This Beer
Health: 21529
Armor: 35062/74.57%
Dodge+Miss:81.52%
Total Mitigation: 93.39

It seems a standard measure of tanks is HP, but looking at the mitigation I truly feel that #1 is just plan bad. #2 and #3 feel the best to me, but the total mitigation on #4 is just plain sexy.

One thing that makes me like #2, is that all my gems are such that if, for some reason build #1 is required, I can make it with just swapping a few pieces of gear.

Your thoughts/input?

Thanks!

EDIT: made some mistakes in typing numbers, fixed now.

Just to clarify, this means that one could "safely" use one's HS/pot macro 0.5 seconds sooner after Mangle than any other bear ability (Swipe, Demo, Lacerate, etc.)? (I'm thinking particularly of Tidewalker, where threat isn't too big of a deal if DPS is watching Omen, but the spike damage can be pretty brutal if multiple MT healers get graved.)

That also has interesting implications for snap threat--I think I habitually used Swipe followed by Mangle when I'm trying to multitank, but using Mangle first would provide the same amount of threat on the focus 0.5s sooner.

Someone also mentioned putting their trinkets in their "Bearstand" macro--personally, I'd use the trinkets before the Bearstand macro, so that the extra dodge from your trinkets helps cover you in case something goes wrong with the macro.

Does anyone know of an addon to make your GCD status more visible than just the little "clock hand" on the buttons? Could be helpful in preventing accidents with the new macro possibilities.

What gear/buffs/debuffs/racials are you using for those stats?

You cant count armor pen values easily because the value of 1 armor pen raises when the total armor pen raises.

Hello.

i've been searching forums to find answers about ideal raid melee group setup. I did not find definite answer about feral druids in the "WF" group, so i'd like to know your opinion.

Feral druid does not benefit from windfury, but he does benefit from the UR and strenght totem. I do not know if HotW increases the ATP gain from UR. If not, 10% of my 4200 attack power is 420, strenght totem is lets say 180, total 600 attack power. My estimation is that my gain from enha shaman would be about 100 dps. Additionaly, feral druid increases crit chance of the party by 5%. Retri pala increases dmg of the party by 2%. Additional rogue / warrior does not increase party's dmg.

So, what is more? Druid's increased DPS + 5% crit, or retri pala's increased DPS + 2% extra dmg, or another warrior/rogue?

My guess is that we do not have place in melee group, which saddens me a bit.

It depends on what your raid makeup is. Quite often we have a 3 BM hunter + shaman + feral group which is amazing for damage. More or less +80% uptime on 3 FI's plus a shaman who drops GoA and SoE is probably my favorite group right now.

Buffs: Commanding shout, Imp Imp, Imp Fort, Imp MotW, Kings, Imp Grace of Air totem, various elixirs/flask depending on the build (Ironskin, AGI, fort), Stam/AGI food depending on the build
Debuffs: Scorpid sting, Insect Swarm
Racials: Tauren

Gear: T6 with various gems, Pendant of Titans, Wildfury/Pillar depending on build, Belt of Natural Power, Treads of the Den Mother, Violet/A'dal or Abyssal Lord/Eternal life rings, Shadowmoon/Badge of Tenacity or Darkmoon decks, heroic badge cloak/bracers. High dodge build uses some high AGI rogues pieces.

I do, in fact, have a bit of a Lacerate spamming habit. ;) It's resulted in occasionally not landing a maul or mangle as soon as I could when rage-capped (because I was in GCD or fumbling buttons from my Lacerate mashing)... as well as irritating hunters and mages when I reflexively charge a target I see out of CC, mangle and mashmashmash to pick it up, and then oops! it's dotted when they try to re-CC it. The point about reducing unnecessary boss parries is also salient. Unshift/reshift macros are just another reason to stop the spam.

I believe (from your description) that I use a similar Quartz element on my hunter to time my shot cycle, so I don't think I'd find it too intrusive. Thanks for the tip.

Our shaman would whine up a storm if I even suggested that. Complaints about "oom" would abound.

Additionally I've been replaced in the dps group with a ret paladin. GG windfury. Group is now War, War, Pal, Rog, Sha. I'm in with a 2 hunter, holy palie, rogue. The depression abounds.