• Astrylian

Right, those shoulders are an interesting situation. I named them "Shoulderpads of Vehemence Alt" in Rawr, because I added the sockets to them. Of all the T7 gear, those are the only ones with no sockets, and they are really underpowered without them. So I'm guessing that Blizz forgot the sockets on them, and will fix it before 2.4 goes live.

 

Valerian

Been running some numbers through Druid Wiki calculator to see what pieces to use in a max dps set. Mainly I was checking with regard to 2T4 bonus. Some results:

5500 AP
50% Crit
142 hit
PS: 2
BoK
Teron

Differences between T4 and Top gear in the slot:
Helm: 200.97
Chest: 246.30
Hands: 225.26
Shoulders: 155.86
Legs: 324.12

Helm + Shoulders: 356.83
2T4: 419.79

7000 AP
65% crit
142 hit
80 expertise
100 Haste
300 ArP
PS 2
BoK
UR
Teron

Differences between T4 and Top gear in the slot:
Helm: 200.13
Chest: 246.14
Hands: 223.54
Shoulders: 152.22
Legs: 320.17

Helm+Shoulders: 352.35
2T4: 389.54

The two different runs I did were just to check scaling. The differences are pretty negligible between two sets at vastly different gear levels so the following conclusions are probably pretty accurate regardless of your gear (as long as its near the level to obtain these things).

At absolute top end it seems Helm + Shoulders should be T4. Boots, Belt, Bracers and Gloves should be T6. Chest and Legs should be the sunwell pieces.

Some of the sunwell gear (notably the helm) may not be easily available but this doesn't change the conclusions (since the helm is one of the pieces you should use T4 on). The only exception here is if you are a non-leatherworker. If you are non-leatherworker you cannot make the [Carapace of Sun and Shadow] so if you cannot obtain the Sunwell Chest (which probably drops of Kil'Jaeden) your next best piece is the S3(!) chest. As such it would be much more reasonable to use the T4 chest and T4 shoulders as your 2T4 pieces for the bonus and use a Cursed Vision, Tier 2 Eng helm or sunwell helm in the head slot.

 

HengeMaker

Not to put too fine a point on it, but as an "oh shit" trinket, it was only moderately better than moroes pocketwatch, which is to be expected. Honestly... if they nerf it down to ~5% dodge, it loses alot of its appeal.

 

charriu

Well, then just look at it as a stamina trinket with some nice bonus (well, better than [Commander's Badge], anyway )

 

bluephoenix331

I'm sure this has been discussed and i probably missed it. I have Dark Moon Card: Wrath as a trinket. With that trinket would i want to still stack Agi or AP? This of course is for my DPS set and with it i seem to crit constantly, so what is the benefit for agility over pure AP? Thanks again for the help yall!

 

Malazaar

While it's no answer to your question, i'd get another trinket for dps. You should have at least 33 % crit in your dps gear, meaning in average this trinket grants you less than one percent crit. There are green quest reward trinkets available that are far better for you.

 

bluephoenix331

Well in my DPS gear im sitting at 31.74% crit

 

• Astrylian

Get more agi.

 

TimWischmeier

AP just gives you AP, but agility not only gives you a good amount of crit but also some nice AP (one point agility should give you 1*1.1*1.03 AP). Agility, and such AP from agility also profits from blessing of kings and enh-shaman buff, while AP just profist from enh-shaman buff (forgot the name of it, sorry).

But the question, wether to prefer agility or AP (ie crit oder AP) is not answered straight, because for each values of crit and ap there is a ratio of those which is optimal. So whether you should collect more points of crit oder ap depends on how many points of each value you already have.

To calculate this values, use one of the tools named in the first post. On most of them you can also see, where your current items are rated, and which items are rated better.

 

Xyebane

Valerian:

The crit cap is 55%, so you probably shouldnt use anything over that in your calculations. If your running over 55% crit, you should probably regem some agi to str to increase your DPS.

 

Valerian

Yellow attacks are on a 2 roll system so there is no crit cap for that. Tossk has done some research that suggests white hits are also on a 2 roll system but even without that, the crit cap would be near 75% since you can push dodges and misses off the table completely so the only things you cannot remove are glancing blows which account for max 25% of your hits.

 

seminarca

Say what?

Isn't the crit cap only an issue for dual wielders with really low hit rating vs 73 boss mobs? (25% glancing + 28% miss + 5.6% dodge = 58.6%, so crit cap is 41.4%)

For Druids with no hit rating, the crit cap would be: 25% glancing + 9% miss + 5.6% dodge = 39.6%, so crit cap is 60.4%

Or am I missing something really obvious here?

edit: Forgot about dodge!

And as Valerian mentioned, any appreciable amount of hit rating and/or expertise will raise the crit cap accordingly, as well as specials which are on a 2 roll system and form a much higher percentage of our damage as compared to dual wielders.

 

Mijae

The "oh shit" value of this trinket is less in the actual dodge value than it is in the automatic nature of the proc as well as the cooldown time. 380 dodge would have been rediculously overpowered.

 

Malazaar

Not to mention that it would have been very easy to be completely melee immune with the proc in an avoidance set (especially so against dual wield mobs).

 

mirarant

Maybe I'm being just silly but I just thought that [Staff of the Forest Lord] would make a fine replacement for [Wildfury Greatstaff].

Has anyone calculated how much armor a selfbuffed bear would have with the new SWP/badge loot?

No, you may not roll a spiked chain wielding half-ogre.

 

Ngita

Surely it depends on what baseline you start with mirarant. My alt has most of the existing badge loot,with a mix of Kara and pvp gear in the remaining slots. I would gain 1002 armor in human form and lose 500 of that if I upgraded [Earthwarden] to [Staff of the Forest Lord]

 

◊ Ulfgar

Using Rawr, it comes out at 33780 armour with no weapon, all raid buffs, and socketing +7 STA/+5 AGI. You'd still want a Wildfury Greatstaff for boss fights.

 

Edenfall

Anetheron question

Are the infernals lvl 72 or 73?
Would it be enough to cap crit for lvl 72 mobs with Fire Resistance gear?
Is capping crit for lvl 72 enough at Illidan? (where we will be using FR gear as well, right?)
How much less than 2.6% do we need in that case?

 

◊ Ulfgar

Towering Infernals are level 72, Flames of Azzinoth are level 73. Given that, you might as well crit cap your FR gear for level 73 mobs, but for level 72s you need 5.4% crit immunity and 360 FR.

 

• Daboran

Although FR is nice on Anetheron, you dont need to cap resistance as that will limit your ranged dps classes in how fast they can kill it due to reduced threat.

I generally wear the Blastguard belt, quest neck and epic crafted boots, then make sure I'm in a Pali group for fr aura. That combo gives you around 200 fr for minimal loss of threat. Also these slots are generally not the ones giving you crit immunity so it's pretty easy in that respect to make up your gear set.

Illidan Flames are different matter of course


Deduct 0.2% from anti-crit for each level below lvl73.

 

Inaiwae

I am a bit concerned about the badge tank gear. All 3 items have haste on them: [Tameless Breeches] [Embrace of Everlasting Prowess] [Handwraps of the Aggressor]

Is haste on tanking gear reasonable? For cat, haste is least wanted stat according to Toskks gear methodology. How useful is it for threat? I'd say that expertise would be superior for both tanking and damage dealing. If we agree on this, i'd suggest filling a feedback on these items to get them in proper shape on live ...

 

Edenfall

To increase DPS
Hit -> Haste

To increase TPS
Expertise -> Hit -> Haste

Haste is only relative with Omen of Clarity and high Attack Power. I neither want to include or disclude crit from this equation. However haste will make a bear crit more often, hence more rage.

 

Yaelle

Lets say your gear has every needed stat you wish for (like 142 Hit from whereon you won't need any more); Look at Valerians post (#1952) for this. I'd prefer some Haste as a gear scaling stat over Armor Ignore, due to Haste even being useful on zero-armor bosses and nice scaling of the 2xT4 bonus.

For tanking, I would have preferred Expertise, but I surely would not be concerned about that stat, because it will increase your TPS, whether something else would be more useful or not.

 

Inaiwae

I am concerned about the fact that expertise would bring me more in both bear and cat unless i am expertise capped. The stats in Valerian post (the second set, capped at hit/exp) is actually possible gear configuration? For me it seems like theorycrafting since i havent seen much expertise pieces in the sunwell loot. Armor penetration affects 80% of your damage, haste affects 40% + procs 2t4 and OOC.

These haste pieces remind me of Pillar of Ferocity.

 

Yaelle

You are right, Expertise would give you more, also considering the very few Expertise items, that make sense (like the new T6 Boots), open to us.
The mentioned post is probably theory.

Never the less, haste will mean more TPS due to (Rage permitting) more Maul in less time.

I Wouldn't go that far!