Morthis

Been playing around with Rawr to try different gear combos, and it's getting pretty hard to figure a good one out with 2.4.

Some amazing rogue (kitty) gear coming out. The non-set items look very solid, but at the same time 4T6 is strong, and 2T4 is probably still very strong as well. Looking at Toskk 2T4 is valued around 400ap for my gear, I doubt the difference between T4 and these new items is big enough to bridge that gap, especially given the lack of shoulders that really stand out.

Since I don't have the T4 helm (yeah I know ><), that limits the best options in T4 slots down to gloves/shoulders (my current combo).

Then there's 4T6, so the 3 new pieces probably (bracers are not as great, but the difference between those and non-set isn't as big as legs/chest/helm slots), along with helm, chest or legs. I suppose it'll depend a lot on my options in items, because all of those 2.4 rogue items are far better than T6 for dps. Looking at those 3 slots, I'm honestly not sure which is the bigger tradeof, they all look to be about the same (maybe a slight edge to legs due to 3 sockets that can all be agi).

Edit: Playing around some more, if I were to use T6 legs instead of the non-set legs, I keep my hit almost capped (3 rating short), whereas with the helm or chest as T6 piece I'm 2% short.... Choices ><

 

ironwolfw

I haven't seen a 100% avoidance build with the new 2.4 loot so I thought I'd post this one. This is based off of Maeltne's build on p46.

NOTE: This relies on your tradeskills being Jewelcrafting/Enchanting. All gems are +10 Agi

Buffs/Debuffs
Buffs: Fortitude, MotW, Blood Pact, Commanding Shout, Grace of Air, Blessing of Kings (all Improved)
Debuffs: Scorpid Sting, Insect Swarm
Food: 20 Agi
Elixirs: Elixir of Ironskin with Elixir of Agi
Scroll: Agi

[Grimgrin Faceguard] + Glyph of the Defender
[Necklace of the Deep]
[Demontooth Shoulderpads] + Greater Inscription of Warding (Knight works as well)
[Phoenix-Wing Cloak] + 12 Agi
[Harness of Carnal Instinct] + 15 Def
[Thunderheart Wristguards] + 12 Def
[Shadowed Gauntlets of Paroxysm] + 15 Agi
[Belt of Deep Shadow]
[Leggings of the Immortal Beast] + 40 Sta/12 Agi
[Shadowmaster's Boots] + 12 Agi
[Delicate Eternium Ring] + 4 Stats
[Hard Khorium Band] + 4 Stats
[Moroes' Lucky Pocket Watch]
[Shadowmoon Insignia]
[Stanchion of Primal Instinct] + 35 Agi
[Idol of Terror]

Final Stats
Health/Armor: 20101/21796
Agi: 1118
Dodge Rating: 145
Def Rating: 111

This is (as far as I know) the first 100% avoidance build that does not rely on a proc or on-use trinket to reach that mark. Still not a useful build but I thought ya'll might find it interesting/pick it apart.

 

dukes

?? - are you including the idol or not? It has about 85% chance to proc iirc.

Also: http://elitistjerks.com/636595-post1841.html - around 200 posts back, about a week ago - good that you both have pretty much the same setup though.

 

Valerian

All the rogue sunwell gear is amazing for Feral DPS. The LW chest and gloves are also very very good. Also all the new tier pieces are best in slot for dps from the looks of it, at least when I ran the numbers through Toskk's calculator.

 

raffy

This is something I definitely want to try. I will be deviating from my usual -- primary set of gear +15 stam gems, secondary set +10 agi gems -- and instead gemming all the new gear +10agi.

It's a shame we don't have better options for our rings and cloak.

 

Goedel

I updated my list, adding [Formula: Enchant Chest - Defense] and [Stanchion of Primal Instinct], assuming the new version with str and agi swapped is correct.

Max total avoidance with what we can currently see will be 107.88%. (Again, total avoidance is already possible in 2.3, as noted in my earlier list.)

 

bluenote

21K armor? Isn't that horribly low? I remember having that back in Kara tanking in greens and staff of beasts...

 

Goedel

Note that I didn't even mention the armor (or stamina) total in my compilation. The point is that armor value doesn't matter if you never get hit.

 

bluenote

Fair enough, I would love to try that gear setup and see how it does. I tanked Kalecgos and I was sitting around 35, 600~ armor with over 49% dodge, yet I couldn't help to notice that the boss and the demon were hitting incredibly hard.

 

Tinweasele

seems kinda low on the dodge, with inspiration and full raid buffs i chill at 38k and 61% avoidance in mostly t4.

 

Akhtal

50% dodge isn't that high in T7 content, considering we haven't killed Kael yet and I have more when fully buffed (to be expected when tackling new content as Kalecgos is)

 

raffy

Well I did say this "looks like QQ", but I was mostly comparing our threat in MT-gear (ie. single target) applied to variety of situations. A Protection Paladin and Warrior wear basically the same gear (maybe swapping shield block for avoidance or stam depending on the fight, but never drop below 490 defense or really give up much total mitigation) for all types of tanking situations. Whereas, a Druid cannot multitarget tank in Hyjal, for instance, in stam gear -- and definitely not in avoidance gear. If I want to have similar threat to a paladin on more than 1 mob, I need to be in mostly full DPS gear with 4/5 T6 and chaining 700+ swipe crits.

-- Our rage starved threat is only better than a Warrior because we probably have 3x the crit chance. However, windfury + lotp + improved soc + igoa buff warrior rage considerably.
-- It's a little different for a Protection Paladin because of their threat mechanics and dependance on mana (and thus small mana pool and no mana returns while building threat without being hit.)

The major problem is that increases in our tanking gear in no way improves our threat. Stam and Armor provide no increases in threat (actually hurts rage generation since we get less from hits?) and Agility only increases our crit rate.

As mentioned before, I think an active method of avoidance and a reactive ability would make great strides in improving feral tanking.

Reactive ability:
-- Frenzy (30 rage, 10 sec cd): After being the victim of a critical strike or a crushing blow, you increase in size and your attack speed increases by 30% for 8 seconds.

Active avoidance: Enrage could be changed to our oh-shit button, and instead of reducing base armor, it could increase our dodge chance for its duration.
-- Enrage (1 min cd): Generates 20 rage over 10 sec and increases your dodge rating by 300.

Threat that benefits from our armor:
-- Maul [Rank 8] (15 rage, next melee): Increases the druid's next attack by 176 damage. Causes additional threat based on your dodge.
[Revert back to a threat modifier and instead use (1 + 0.1 * Dodge) to compute the modifier. This would translate into a 1.6x threat modifier for a T6 tank and 2x threat modifier for a full avoidance tank. This would also scale Maul threat with AP once again.]

And as everyone in this thread has mentioned many times: fix Frenzied Regeneration!
-- Frenzied Regeneration (3 min cd): Converts up to 10 rage per second into health for 10 sec. Each point of rage is converted into (0.0025 * Armor) health.
[Gives an 36k armor feral tank 900 HPS for 10 sec with a full rage bar. Has a much lesser impact for Restoration druids.]

 

bluenote

Yeah, I know. It usually depends what I am tanking, with pocket watch + ssc staff I have 44.81% dodge with only motw. When tanking Hyjal with a shaman in my group, trinkets, agi/hp elixirs, and fully raid buffed I've tanked Hyjal with 73%(I think) dodge, it's sweet seeing a whole combot log of dodges :P

I have a question, I was told that the druid staff which is at the badge vendor can not be purchased until the first gate is unlocked, could some one briefly explain this? I thought that you would be able to buy the staff right as the patch hits if you have the badges?

 

• Shinanigans

Hey guys. Couple quick questions if I could.

A friend of mine is quitting WoW and is giving me his Feral Druid that is BT/Hyjal attuned. He has 4/5 T4, Staff from SSC trash, both of crafted SSC leather pieces (belt and boots).

Now, I am not 100% sure how to judge the goodness of a tanking Druid. From what I know, via word of mouth, the T4 set bonuses make T4 FAR superior to T5. I believe that the Pillar of Ferocity drop from Hyjal is better than the staff that he has now.

I guess what I am looking for, is a place where I can make a side-by-side comparison for tanking gear like I can with my Enhance Shaman at MaxDPS.com.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

bluenote

2pc T4 is really good for dps, even when you are in T6 content. Also, stick to full T4 for tanking unless you have 4pc T5, which is better for tanking.

 

• Astrylian

Rawr is what you're looking for. The Druid Wiki » Rawr

 

Toskk

I apologize for not adding the feature earlier.. but Socket method and Gem Quality options are now available via popup menus on the Gear List Generator.

 

raffy

The resilience vs defense vs stam vs agi vs dodge stuff is tough and is mostly only comparable by mentioning trade-offs and specific gear setups.

Per stat:
1 def / 59.25 = 0.01688 miss, 0.01688 dodge, 0.01688 anticrit (or total 0.03376 avoid)
1 resil / 39.4 = 0.02538 anitcrit
1 agi * 1.1 [bok] * 1.03 [sotf] / 14.7059 = 0.07704 dodge (ignore 2 armor, ignore 0.04532 crit)
1 dodge / 18.92 = 0.05285 avoid
1 sta * 1.1 [bok] * 1.03 [soft] * 1.2 [hotw] * 1.25 [bear] * 10 [hp/sta]

[top] 17 hp

Chest:
15 def

> 0.5064 avoid, 0.2532 anticrit
15 resil => 0.3807 anticrit
6 stats [6 sta, 6 agi]

[top]> 0.4622 avoid, 102 hp

15 def seems the winner on average.
15 def provides the most avoidance.
If you're over 2.6 anticrit, 6 stats is slightly better.
If you're really under 2.6 anticrit, 15 resil is better (might be the situation with "T7"/expertise gear and lack of +def on the new tanking ring and trinket.)

Head:
18 sta, 20 resil

> 0.5076 anticrit, 306 hp
16 def, 17 dodge => [0.5402 + 0.8984] 1.439 avoid, 0.2700 anticrit

Gem:
10 resil = 0.2538 anticrit
10 def = 0.3376 avoid, 0.1688 anticrit
10 agi = 0.7704 avoid
10 dodge = 0.5285 avoid
15 sta = 255 hp

10 agi provides best avoidance.
2x 10 def is debatably better than 10 agi + 10 resil, which basically means socketing for resilience sucks (enchant resil and socket agility/sta/def is a better strategy)

It's more interesting, however, when used in combination:

Head [18 sta, 20 resil] + Gem [10agi] + Chest [15 def] = 0.7608 anticrit, 306 hp, 1.2768 avoid
Head [16 def, 17 dodge] + Gem[15sta] + Chest [15 resil] = 0.6507 anticrit, 255 hp, 1.439 avoid

The new helm enchant and new chest enchant looks like the winners next patch (when your not going for 100% avoid) since you trade 0.1622 avoid for 0.1101 anticrit (and 51 hp). Considering 10 agi vs 10 resil provides 3x the avoid per resil, the 1.5:1 trade above is deal.)

Although we're still talking small gains/losses, getting more anticrit per customizable option (enchant, socket) and keeping the same avoidance is always better since it gives us increasing flexibility elsewhere.

 

Hufflepuff

If my guild has a chronic shortage red epic gems (spinets) what is the best gem to replace that slot?

[Thick Lionseye] Y
[Solid Empyrean Sapphire] B
[Shifting Shadowsong Amethyst] R/B
[Enduring Seaspray Emerald] Y/B
[Glinting Pyrestone] R/Y

Keeping socket bonuses in mind (T6/Sunwell)

Thanks!

 

Duilliath

er...

Did anyone take a look at the new stats on the new t6 pieces ? (Picture @ MMO-Champion)

How the hell are we supposed to tank anything without any stamina whatsoever ??

 

delemoose

Yeah I saw that and while my initial reaction was frustration it was an universal change for all DPS sets.

There are two scenarios for us:

1) Since we are the only case where our gear is for both DPS and tanking, they will change it in the next PTR patch.
2) Another option is with the turn in T6 for vindicator gear, they plan to rely on PvP gear for tanking and have T6 as pure DPS? I only think of this because I use the honor bracers and belt for tanking though I'm leaning on them doing option 1.

 

Ovidus

I guess they want those parts to be dps next patch, though it doesn't make any sense with the boots still having expertise.

 

Inaiwae

It does not have sense as they have item points spent in armor. Even pure dps piece needs more stamina than armor.

I am filling bug report for these.

 

Malazaar

I must say i like the change, but while they are at it, they might as well convert the additional armor to dps stats, too. These changes make those 3 pieces by far the best available dps items and i was going to wear them anyway for the set bonus.

Expertise is actually not that bad for dps.

 

seminarca

It's being speculated in the 2.4 patch thread that this change is for PvP reasons, to reduce their survivability (by killing Stamina) so people don't try to use 4 piece Gladiator and T6 bonuses simultaneously (e.g. T6 Belt/Boots/Bracers/Gloves + Gladiator Head/Shoulders/Chest/Legs). Some of the T6 bonuses could affect PvP balance. Obviously removing Stamina from the Feral set is an oversight, and I'd strongly suggest you report these items on PTR for review, citing PvE tanking as the reason.