It doesn't have my 1310 dps on Naj Wow Web Stats infact it hardly has anything from my guild dispite many weeks of reports.
From the FAQ:
"All DPS is recalculated to be a representation of Damage/Time. WWS recalculates DPS to include time present in the encounter. We feel that our number is better for ranking individuals and guilds, while WWS's number is more useful to raid leaders seeking to improve performance."
It doesn't have my 1310 dps on Naj Wow Web Stats infact it hardly has anything from my guild dispite many weeks of reports.
From the FAQ again
We only pull the top 200 reports for character parsing. If you have an exceptional player DPS in an encounter that does not make the top 200 reports, we can parse it manually. In that case, please allow 2 days from the time the report was posted and if the player DPS still has not appeared, send us an e-mail at the link below with the reason for requesting a manual parsing, the guild name, server name (including US or Europe), and a link to the WWS report.
Your report is no where close to the top 200 reports, if you think you did significant dps for a top spot, you'll have to manually submit it for manual update.
Their numbers are somewhat inflated by using 2x necro MC's all of Hyjal. I got one once and managed 2500 dps on Kaz'rogal or something ridiculous, fun times.
I had two stockpiled because of the future change to allow multiple heroic gems to be equipped, but I guess that is moot now. It'll mean that for the sake of socketing the theorycraft will stay the same, but you can't help but dislike the change(even if it was an anomaly).
The sad thing is, it is still the best blue-compatible gem for ferals pre-T6-level, but hunters will seek it out now, too, as besides 1 sta, it's just as [Shifting Shadowsong Amethyst], and it's somehow easier to obtain (chance to get up to 3 per day)
Apologies for bringing Kara-Gruul level discussion among the end game.
I'm noticing I'm not putting out great threat, watching Omen the last few times I've been in bear gear in kara, I think I've seen 450-500 tps, spiking up to 800 tps when I'm getting maul into the mix, but it's not as sustained as I assume it should be. I hold aggro but I want to keep it as the difficulty and dps ramps up.
Rotation is standard Mangle, Lacerate, Maul (>50 rage), swipe if I can without breaking CC. Mangle is 1 key, lacerate is 2 key, and maul the 3, so I often have a Maul queued and lacerate cycling while mangle cooldown runs. FF and Roar as needed.
Gear and stats:
Bear (self buffed):
14514 health, 28526 armor, 420 def, 27.49 dodge, 0 resil, 1519 AP, 34 Hit, 24.24 crit, 6 expertise
Fast summary is full clefthoof (all 12 sta, 6 stats, clefthide, boar's speed), T4 helm/gloves, necklace of deep, VE exalted and shermanar rings, EW (35 agi), badge of tenacity, commander's badge, gilded thorium (12 agi), Manimal's, umberhowl, sun-gilded shoulders (last 3 very weak), Idol of terror.
Aiming to update belt and wrists with combination of PvP and badge gear, shoulders to T4, chest with S3. Change some gems to shifting nightseye because my dodge is terrible. Very limited time to play. Semi-related post in the pre-raid thread from a week ago went unanswered.
Is it my gear limiting my threat or is it me? I'm trying to get better.
Fast summary is full clefthoof (all 12 sta, 6 stats, clefthide, boar's speed), necklace of deep, VE exalted and shermanar rings, EW (35 agi), badge of tenacity, commander's badge, gilded thorium (12 agi), Manimal's, umberhowl, sun-gilded shoulders (last 3 very weak)
Is it my gear limiting my threat or is it me?
Sounds like your rotation is fine - the gear I've left above is all pretty weak for threat (excessively so in many cases - necklace of the deep is fine as long as you're using agi or agi/stam gems). Most of them are purely non-threat items (clefthoof, trinkets, cloak, rings) so it's not entirely surprising your threat is bad. You'll gain a lot by getting the upgrades you listed, and replacing gems is a good idea as you gain a lot of crit along with the dodge.
It is true that the gear you have is not good for threat, but 500tps seems a bit too low to me. Unfortunatelly i cant test it. Few questions:
- could you link your talents? Maybe you miss some threat-related talents (feral instinct, naturalict, ooc, shredding attacks).
- do you use lacerate or mangle on _every_ global cooldown?
As for swipe, with you gear swipe gives less threat than lacerate on single target mobs (even on non-bleedable ones). Do not use it on bosses.
Thanks dukes. Perils of obsessively stacking stam and armor as I started kara I guess, and I'm paranoid about maintaining uncrittable. My T4 legs would cost me 29 stamina if I put a nethercleft on. Switching all 8 solid stars for shifting nightseyes would cost me another 48 stam. Could lose 77 stam in those changes alone. Necklace of deep is also solid stars.
Guess that's the cost of moving from introductory stuff to the next phase.
Is 4t4 for bear worth pursuing or keeping once I have it? (I know 2t4 is a holy thing for cats, I've read and excerpted this whole thread)
The goal in tanking trinkets I always see listed as Badge, pocketwatch, or stam trinks like darkmoon or netherwing trinket. Guess I need to seek out more dps capable tanking trinks.
In cat in kara, since most mobs are bleed immune, is it effective to ferocious bite and then powershift? When powershifting, is it horribly ineffective to just hit your shift twice instead of a dedicated macro?
edit: My armory link
And my memory on the tps may be a little flawed. I might also be not perfectly timed and losing fractions of a second to GCD from a lacerate or maul for mangle, I'm trying to figure it out. Daunting ramping up from noob. Swipe is multimob only, my best use in kara is as OT building side threat on moroes to be 2nd.
It seems the main discussion lately has been on the aspect of DPS as a Feral Druid.
If possible, I would like to get some thoughts on the tanking aspect ... specifically, gear.
Looking through the loot tables for most bosses across different raid instances, it is clear Blizzard doesn't like us tanking In fact I can't recall 1 drop in ZA that would be good for tanking, aside from maybe the staff if you need extra threat.
That being said, what do you think about the upcoming feral tanking gear from the new badge turn-in's in 2.4? The same old trend, or am I missing something when I see that all the feral gear (including tanking) seems to have haste rating, which could probably have been a more useful defensive stat?
Also --and slightly back on topic-- how do you guys deal with non-tanking leather in 25 man raids. It seems like some of you druids have some amazing dps gear, do you actually let druids bid against rogues for gear .. or do you give rogues precedence if they need it.
It seems the main discussion lately has been on the aspect of DPS as a Feral Druid.
If possible, I would like to get some thoughts on the tanking aspect ... specifically, gear.
Looking through the loot tables for most bosses across different raid instances, it is clear Blizzard doesn't like us tanking In fact I can't recall 1 drop in ZA that would be good for tanking, aside from maybe the staff if you need extra threat.
That being said, what do you think about the upcoming feral tanking gear from the new badge turn-in's in 2.4? The same old trend, or am I missing something when I see that all the feral gear (including tanking) seems to have haste rating, which could probably have been a more useful defensive stat?
Also --and slightly back on topic-- how do you guys deal with non-tanking leather in 25 man raids. It seems like some of you druids have some amazing dps gear, do you actually let druids bid against rogues for gear .. or do you give rogues precedence if they need it.
Thanks, as always, for the insight.
I wouldn't say they don't like us tanking, our tiered sets are pretty damn nice and get progressively better with more stats, sockets, and hit.
Tier 6 2pc is amazing in many ways and t6 4pc is pretty amazing for swipe threat (helps alot to break the threshold where swipe does more threat that lacerate)
I find most undergeared druids on my server who ask me questions tend to have like 450 defense or something absurdly over 2.6% ---- Hovering closer to 2.6% allows for greater threat, and I seriously can't think of any time where I was doing less than 1000 tps (Gruul's).
I having really gone too much over the new badge gear because I will be picking up the new t6 pieces/eventually the 6.5 stuff that is outright amazing, but the items available are definitely SSC/TK level and beyond if that helps at all.
===
As far as gear goes, it can be a little tricky. As long as you are doing progression I would focus your dkp/concern on tanking upgrades --- Maybe try to snatch some DPS loot after it has dropped a couple times (If you get the chance ninja a DST). After like 23~ Illidan kills helm finally dropped and I took it, it honestly depends on your impression on other people, if you don't deserve it or if people think you are bad then hey your guild will probably tell you to F' off. Form good relationships with your rogues(and enhance shaman), I mess with them all the time and even if they might be a little ticked at first it really isn't a big deal when everything is on complete farm and everyone is geared to the teeth already. Cry more and learn to bid .
Discussion is about DPS because the tanking part doesn't require much theorycraft at this point-- it's mostly just a rehash. Although recent topics about max-dodge sets do bring to mind the fact that we can tank. It's more than it's hard to design gear that's an upgrade but also doesn't make it easy to hit 100% dodge.
The badge gear is fine, it has the same number of tanking stats as our T6 gear. A few less sockets in some slots, but that should be expected. And since our T6 bonuses involve higher threat rather than higher survivability, the new badge gear rates pretty well.
As for bidding on DPS gear: It all depends on how much you would use the gear. My guild is prot-heavy, so our ferals spend a good amount of time DPSing. So, only a handful of items are limited to rogue priority. If our ferals were tanking half the bosses, the story would be different.
What you'll find, however, is that with only a few exceptions, you can come pretty close to rogue-quality gear without interfering with rogue loot. S3 chest/helm/bracers, badge boots/etc, T5 vortex belt (you should have plenty of vortexes to fill the ranks, or guilds might sell it on the AH), Hyjal rep ring, 2t4 or 4t6, perhaps some other choice pieces. Put together with suboptimal rogue gear, and you are really only starving for better gear in a few slots: neck, second ring, and trinkets. And you can make a pretty good argument as you advance in the game that you deserve the right to attempt to replace Kara-level items if you are expected to DPS.
edit: My armory link
And my memory on the tps may be a little flawed. I might also be not perfectly timed and losing fractions of a second to GCD from a lacerate or maul for mangle, I'm trying to figure it out. Daunting ramping up from noob. Swipe is multimob only, my best use in kara is as OT building side threat on moroes to be 2nd.
Try dropping Demoralising Roar and Feral Faerie Fire from your rotation as well if you're purely concerned with TPS. Mangle/Lacerate will do far more for your threat than Roar or FFF.
There's a couple of nice upgrades for you from Badges or Arena that'll help with your threat as well as provide you with a ton of stamina.
As to DPS pieces - don't sweat it. If you were supposed to go by:
"You only DPS half the time, you don't deserve gear over Rogues" how would that compare to "You only tank half the time, you don't deserve gear before the Warriors/Paladins" ? Right - you'd never get a damn thing.
That's exactly what DKP is for. If you can spare the DKP despite focusing on your main task (which, regardless of what we might hope for) still would be (off) tanking, then you deserve the loot.
Rogues might not like it if you take a Tsunami Talisman or Madness of the Betrayer... if you keep passing everything (first 3 DST, first 3 TT, first 3 MotB...) you'll still be DPSing with your Bloodlust Brooch and Crystalforged Trinket by the time you finish Sunwell.
Is 4t4 for bear worth pursuing or keeping once I have it? (I know 2t4 is a holy thing for cats, I've read and excerpted this whole thread)
The goal in tanking trinkets I always see listed as Badge, pocketwatch, or stam trinks like darkmoon or netherwing trinket. Guess I need to seek out more dps capable tanking trinks.
2pT4 isn't too bad for threat production at your gear level, either, it should help you keep your rage up so you can throw more Mauls into the mix. 4pT4 is nice, but not required, however, those pieces have great stats, so are probably worth picking up regardless of the bonus.
As you build your tank gear, you should also be thinking about a number of different sets, staggered from cat to bear. As you make compromises on mitigation and stamina, your threat and ability to switch to a dps role midfight go up. Since a lot of the roles in your near future are going to be tanking one mob, then being a cat for the rest of the fight, you should start looking for pieces with good threat stats that may not be ideal for either. [A'dal's Command] and [Band of Ursol] are good examples of relatively easy to acquire pieces that fill that role. Basically, even if you're not interested in kitty dps, pick up the items anyhow, they will be useful in building higher threat lower mitigation sets that you'll use situationally.
Try dropping Demoralising Roar and Feral Faerie Fire from your rotation as well if you're purely concerned with TPS. Mangle/Lacerate will do far more for your threat than Roar or FFF.
... If you don't keep FF up you are just plain dumb. 1 GCD for increased TPS + rDPS ... always keep FF up.
Rogues might not like it if you take a Tsunami Talisman or Madness of the Betrayer... if you keep passing everything (first 3 DST, first 3 TT, first 3 MotB...) you'll still be DPSing with your Bloodlust Brooch and Crystalforged Trinket by the time you finish Sunwell.
This is the key, really. Essentially, aspire to get the 2nd or 3rd drop of big DPS upgrades, and wait on the small DPS upgrades unless the other physical DPS don't want them.
Last nights Teron I got 1925 dps, Rawr has me listed doing around 1800 with my gear and the same buffs. Did I just get lucky with OoC // 2pcT4 procs?
-i was putting up mangles
-i forgot to use agi elixir
-group comp was 2 rog, enh sham, war, and myself.
-gear that i had on ( The World of Warcraft Armory )
-no world buffs, only raid and 20 agi food and elemental sharp stone.
-i know i screwed up on my powershifting about 3-4 times
Doesn't seem very off. Though I had 18% less crit on Shred than you for only 26DPS difference in the end. I powershift VERY aggressivley. Both are pretty much identical except for the awefull miss rate you got on Shred, your 18% crit advantage totally got negated by the 12% more misses. Just proves how important it is to get 100% hit.
2pT4 isn't too bad for threat production at your gear level, either, it should help you keep your rage up so you can throw more Mauls into the mix. 4pT4 is nice, but not required, however, those pieces have great stats, so are probably worth picking up regardless of the bonus.
Now, as a question, when do you start replacing T4 for bear?
From some Rawr playing, and random spread-sheeting, it looks like around 3+ T5 comes close to the T4-4 bonus, and 4 pieces of T5 has enough base armour to bear the T4-4 armour bonus. It seems to me, that T4-4 and T5 pants make a lovely combo.
But if threat is possibly an issue, when can you start considering breaking T4-2?
Now, as a question, when do you start replacing T4 for bear?
From some Rawr playing, and random spread-sheeting, it looks like around 3+ T5 comes close to the T4-4 bonus, and 4 pieces of T5 has enough base armour to bear the T4-4 armour bonus. It seems to me, that T4-4 and T5 pants make a lovely combo.
But if threat is possibly an issue, when can you start considering breaking T4-2?
Or is this a whole, wait until T6 thing?
(That or wait for rawr-threat-modelling?)
Assuming you get Full T4, then start getting T5 in the typical order of Shoulders, Pants, Gloves, most likely (use Rawr to be sure, but this is how it'll play out for most bears) you should wear...
1. Start with 5T4
2. Get T5 Shoulders. Wear 4T4 + T5 Shoulders
3. Get T5 Pants. Wear 4T4 + T5 Pants
4. Get T5 Gloves. Wear 2T4 + 3T5.
It typically takes 3T5 to beat 4T4. Until you can get 3T5, use 4T4 + whatever the biggest upgrade piece of T5 you have is. Again, this isn't for everyone, but it's a good rule of thumb.
Me personally for bear, I started replacing T4 with T5 as soon as I got the items... While the set bonus from 4T4 is nice, you already have lots of mitigation, and the additional threat from the T5 pieces was worth breaking the set as I got T5... Again, staying alive before you got 4T4 wasn't a problem... So it suddenly won't become one with the inclusion of T5... Besides, odds are you are just in an OT role... In fact, I OT in a DPS/tanking set for all trash (excluding hyjal), which only has 29k AC and it work perfectly fine... Heh, while its not ideal, I know you can tank Rage and Kazrogal in DPS gear... Have done this before when our MT died near start when boss aggro'd on NPCs first and the healers were slow healing when he suddenly switched back to the tank...
Me personally for bear, I started replacing T4 with T5 as soon as I got the items... While the set bonus from 4T4 is nice, you already have lots of mitigation, and the additional threat from the T5 pieces was worth breaking the set as I got T5... Again, staying alive before you got 4T4 wasn't a problem... So it suddenly won't become one with the inclusion of T5... Besides, odds are you are just in an OT role... In fact, I OT in a DPS/tanking set for all trash (excluding hyjal), which only has 29k AC and it work perfectly fine... Heh, while its not ideal, I know you can tank Rage and Kazrogal in DPS gear... Have done this before when our MT died near start when boss aggro'd on NPCs first and the healers were slow healing when he suddenly switched back to the tank...
Aye, my general rule above is for MTing. If you're just OTing, yeah, replace em as you get em.
Aye, my general rule above is for MTing. If you're just OTing, yeah, replace em as you get em.
And T4-2/T5-3 will last for a long long time as a bear-OT? (And yes T4-2/S3-2/x for cat until T6) Especially if you dps after. Ok. We're working on 5/6 (1+1)/4 currently. So was wondering what set gear I should pass on, what gear to grab, in order to aid the raid. I guess I should also look at other class' lust for T5.
02/22/08, 1:23 AM
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In fact I can't recall 1 drop in ZA that would be good for tanking, aside from maybe the staff if you need extra threat.
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