Raiding as a Tree - Page 11

BOHIC · 01/24/08, 3:37 PM

Originally Posted by Bahkauv

No, socketing the gem or enchanting Sublety results in 2% less threat than you produced before socketing/enchanting. Always. Same goes for all the other multiplicative buffs and skills.

The Talent Sublety reduces your threat by 20%, no matter if you have any enchants, gems or buffs. It is always 20% less than without the talent.

The additive behaviour could not be expressed with simple percentages, you would have to add an "up to" or "of your base threat" to the tooltip.

Regardless, the last point is correct, 2% more or less threat do not make any difference for a healer. It is just a bonus to a 26 +heal meta-gem. In those cases where you are likely to grab aggro (e.g. Morogrim's Murlocs), 2% are not enough to save you.

Ok, so it's multiplicative and thus always reduces your current threat (after buffs/talents/enchants/etc) by 2%. I think it's a bit confusing to say it always reduces your threat by 2% without mentioning that caveat because that makes it sound like you won't see diminishing returns stacking it with other threat reductions. Anyhow, you are right and I'm just talking about semantics, so I'll shut it now.

Varrah · 01/24/08, 6:10 PM

Okay, so it's multiplicative, and thus fairly useless.

Well, on the subject of mana regen, then...
I assume there is a point where you have "infinite mana"- you innervate every six minutes, and pot every two minutes, and spamming such and such spells, you will never go out of mana. Might anyone know where we can find charts displaying "if you cast regrowth every X seconds, and Lifebloom every Y seconds", etc?

Currently I cast regrowth on the MT every 27 seconds (2 pieces of T5), so I always have swiftmend if I really need it. I also try to keep rejuvenation up, but I keep regrowth there in case I get an intense spot of raid healing and want to let rejuvenation fall off. Then I use a combination of regrowths and lifeblooms on raid healing for really intense fights (such as Naj'entus). Currently I have over 300mp5 and have no "problems", but I'm wondering how I will do on a 20 minute fight like Illidan, so I'd like to reach what is essentially infinite mana, and then I'll worry about which meta gem to go for.

Playered · 01/24/08, 7:44 PM

Originally Posted by Varrah

Okay, so it's multiplicative, and thus fairly useless.

Well, on the subject of mana regen, then...
I assume there is a point where you have "infinite mana"- you innervate every six minutes, and pot every two minutes, and spamming such and such spells, you will never go out of mana. Might anyone know where we can find charts displaying "if you cast regrowth every X seconds, and Lifebloom every Y seconds", etc?

Currently I cast regrowth on the MT every 27 seconds (2 pieces of T5), so I always have swiftmend if I really need it. I also try to keep rejuvenation up, but I keep regrowth there in case I get an intense spot of raid healing and want to let rejuvenation fall off. Then I use a combination of regrowths and lifeblooms on raid healing for really intense fights (such as Naj'entus). Currently I have over 300mp5 and have no "problems", but I'm wondering how I will do on a 20 minute fight like Illidan, so I'd like to reach what is essentially infinite mana, and then I'll worry about which meta gem to go for.

There was a post which had how much MP5 you would need to make up for each individual cast of RG, RJ, LB etc but I cannot find it currently, and I've gone through the old 'Mana Regen...' and the 'Has your... Lifebloom' one without luck.

Treat it like accoutancy; Capital (Mana Pool), Income (Mana Regen - Pots, MP5, IV, Drums..), and Expenses (Spells cost per 30 or 60sec), work out averages per min or 6min rotation (your choice).

Regarding Illidan then P1 you will tend to stay at 90-100% mana unless you really want to go overboard for the meters.
Basing rest from my own experience with 220 MP5 350~ Spirit and around 10k Mana Pool all unbuffed. My group will not contain a SP or Shaman, no Potions will be used.
My role in P2 is double Lifebloom on Flame Tanks, and I tend to keep a RJ up on one , P3/5 is MT + Burning players, P4 is Burning players and general raiding healing, I'm also going by an 8 healer setup.
P2 I'll use most of my mana, an Innervate (bangled) and end up around 20-40% mana by P3.
P3 onwards it pretty low maintenance and I'll end up getting my second Innervate to put me back up on mana to last me the rest of the fight.

That's all assuming the fight goes smoothly, and its not really using my full potential or ability to try and pull off ultra high healing meters.
It's really only heavily draining in P2 unless you have idiots who decide to clump up and result in 3-6 people Burning per phase/shift.

Infinate mana is really an illusion you cannot attain because once you hit that point you can just start (raid) healing more (via RG, RJ, and what ranks of RG aswell), or give up your group setup (SP/Shaman) and your Innervate.

Treesurgeon · 01/25/08, 3:35 PM

This has been an interesting thread with alot of information to digest. I have not been playing a druid very long but currently find my warrior tank on hold and myself being the druid class lead for a T5 guild.

In terms of regen vs. + heal I think much depends on your style and role within a given guild/raid as well as the level of gear you have access to. I am in pretty much Kara/T4 gear with a couple bits and pieces from SSC and the badge shoulders. I tend to be an MP/5 whore while trying to keep up my spirit and + heal. I use as many Royal Nightseye as I can and have an IED for my meta at the sacrifice of some + heal.

I am with the MT group for the ToL aura in most conventional encounters. I lead the healing meters on most boss fights and over all (including trash) I'm top 3 every night. I think in many ways our healing is one of our weaker aspects and I have to do more and a little differently than other trees in other raids. I can and do brute force heal from time to time. My MO is generally to keep LB stacks up on tanks, weave in RJ's and RG's while taggin the raid with RJs and low rank RGs. I burn through alot of mana healing alot of targets and a GCD doesn't go by that I'm not refreshing an LB stack or finding someone to heal very often.

Reading this thread, I see some of the things I need to work on and do to improve my game.

Ribeye · 01/27/08, 8:06 PM

Quick Question for anyone able to break down the numbers.

I currently have the memento, rejuvenating gem, and the tome of diabolic remedy at my disposal. Of course I'm going to use the memento, but am I better off on the second trinket with rejuvenating gem, or the tome (combined with a macro that uses it on every lifebloom cast.) I'm pretty much done with gear and I think the rejuvenating gem, while powerful is always an eyesore, so I'm kinda leaning towards replacing it. I stack MP5 primarily btw...

Noressa · 01/28/08, 12:56 PM

Tome of Diabolic Remedy: 18mana/5, +heal equivalent= 66
Lower City Prayerbook: 9 spells in 15 seconds, 22 x 9 = 198, 12 ticks/minute = 16.5 m/5, +heal of 70

I'd still recommend the Essence of the Martyr, though. It's the strongest +healing trinket out there for us.

uliko · 01/28/08, 3:38 PM

Since there has been some recent discussion about meta gems, specifically IED vs BED, I figured I'd post some data I collected from the IED.

Most people seem to believe it has a 5% proc chance with no ICD which is wrong. I switched to the IED I think patch 2.2(?), it was the patch that increased the proc rate atleast, so the data is collected from back then. So far I've recorded 2676 procs and the shortest time between any two has been 15 seconds which, to me, cleary shows it has a 15 sec ICD. Also since I found the ICD I've done another 66,621 spell casts and over those casts it proced 2610 times which gives it a proc rate of 2610/66621~=3.92%.

Also from what I remember the meta also procs from non-spell casts such as picking herbs which means the data might be a bit polluted (higher proc rate since more procs but no new spell casts recorded). But since its gathered over a couple of weeks of raiding it should be fairly accurate.

Having all that said though looking over a few WWS parses the IED usually nets me around 25 mp/5 on any given fight.

galzohar · 01/28/08, 6:07 PM

Even with 15s cooldown and spamming spells (which is worst case scenario when it comes to cooldown hurting the overall effect) you will get average time to proc = 15 + 1/(0.05/1.5) = 45s. 300 mana ever 45s = 33.3 mp5. Cast less often and while you will get lower mp5, the loss over what it used to be will go down due to less cooldown interruption. So it's still pretty powerful regen even if it has 15s cooldown. On a side note your data points at a plain 5% proc rate being unreasonable, however if you consider 15s cooldown your 3.92% proc rate fits well with "5% proc but 15s cooldown".

Kaleido · 01/30/08, 10:18 PM