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Old 02/01/08, 1:39 PM   #166
bartheke
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Night Elf Druid
 
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OmniCC will post cooldown timers within icons located on your bars and duration timers within HoT icons located on any target.

GridStatusLifebloom adds a timer within grid target boxes counting down Lifebloom duration with a progressive color change indicating the number of Lifeblooms applied.

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Old 02/01/08, 2:00 PM   #167
Noressa
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WoW Forums -> Haste for raiding : experience
So, how much haste is needed to reduce cast time by .5 seconds, and the possibility of 5 stack rolling lifeblooms is suddenly a reality.

Originally Posted by tiberion02 View Post
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Old 02/01/08, 2:33 PM   #168
Norfair
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Originally Posted by Noressa View Post
WoW Forums -> Haste for raiding : experience
So, how much haste is needed to reduce cast time by .5 seconds, and the possibility of 5 stack rolling lifeblooms is suddenly a reality.
If I have to believe WoWWiki, 15.7 haste rating is 1% faster casting. So, in order for the global cooldown to go from 1.5 to 1.0, you'd have to have 33.3% faster castspeed, resulting into 33.3 * 15.7 = 523 haste rating needed.

The question is, how much added "value" would 1.0 sec global cooldown have for resto druids? We would be able to squeeze in more hots per Lifebloom rotation, but how much do we need that? My initial feeling is that the sacrifice on +healing or mana regen would not be worth the extra hots per Lifebloom rotation, even though *theoretically* you would probably have a much greater healing output capacity. Only fight where you can exploit that is RoS as you can't throw hots on enough people in p2 and p3. Furthermore this change would mean you can not only keep Lifebloom up on 3 tanks, but also Rejuvenation next to it and even have time to Swiftmend on any of them without putting your Lifebloom rolls in danger. Downside to this is of course that mana will be more of an issue, as you will burn your mana a lot faster. Would be rather interesting to play with haste rating oriented gear and see what the possibilites are, so I guess I'll go get me some pieces.

Just looked up an old post of mine about the 4 leather haste rating items, the difference between those and the commonly used healing gear is:

You gain: 30 sta, 6 int and 140 haste (8.88%)
You lose: 96 spi, 28 mp5 and 68 +heal

Big difference in mana regen mostly, while that is the thing you would need more of when using haste gear, I suppose. Of course there is more haste rating gear out there (ring, cloak off the top of my head), but I think getting the 523 needed is rather impossible.


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Old 02/01/08, 2:34 PM   #169
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I think it just allows a resto druid to actually consider taking an item with haste if that item is otherwise attractive for them, instead of being a wasted stat.

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Old 02/01/08, 2:49 PM   #170
Liebestod
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Originally Posted by Norfair View Post
If I have to believe WoWWiki, 15.7 haste rating is 1% faster casting. So, in order for the global cooldown to go from 1.5 to 1.0, you'd have to have 33.3% faster castspeed, resulting into 33.3 * 15.7 = 523 haste rating needed.

The question is, how much added "value" would 1.0 sec global cooldown have for resto druids? We would be able to squeeze in more hots per Lifebloom rotation, but how much do we need that? My initial feeling is that the sacrifice on +healing or mana regen would not be worth the extra hots per Lifebloom rotation, even though *theoretically* you would probably have a much greater healing output capacity. Only fight where you can exploit that is RoS as you can't throw hots on enough people in p2 and p3. Furthermore this change would mean you can not only keep Lifebloom up on 3 tanks, but also Rejuvenation next to it and even have time to Swiftmend on any of them without putting your Lifebloom rolls in danger. Downside to this is of course that mana will be more of an issue, as you will burn your mana a lot faster. Would be rather interesting to play with haste rating oriented gear and see what the possibilites are, so I guess I'll go get me some pieces.

Just looked up an old post of mine about the 4 leather haste rating items, the difference between those and the commonly used healing gear is:

You gain: 30 sta, 6 int and 140 haste (8.88%)
You lose: 96 spi, 28 mp5 and 68 +heal

Big difference in mana regen mostly, while that is the thing you would need more of when using haste gear, I suppose. Of course there is more haste rating gear out there (ring, cloak off the top of my head), but I think getting the 523 needed is rather impossible.
Yea, that's a fair point... spell haste really won't help Druid single-target healing, now have it increase the rate of Lifebloom ticks and we're in business, maybe...

But it will definitely help for spot healing. It'll just be hard to do a numerical analysis of its value, though. I guess you could look at the extreme case where you're continually throwing lifeblooms to see how much spell haste helps.

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Old 02/01/08, 3:01 PM   #171
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Thank you for that! I know that there's going to be more looking into spell haste, and that number is going to be hard to hit, but allowing for 5, even 6 other targets is a pretty significant boost. I would probably only use a full haste set for things like trash, still trying to figure out where else it might be useful.

Originally Posted by tiberion02 View Post
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Old 02/01/08, 3:03 PM   #172
• malthrin
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Originally Posted by Norfair View Post
Big difference in mana regen mostly, while that is the thing you would need more of when using haste gear, I suppose. Of course there is more haste rating gear out there (ring, cloak off the top of my head), but I think getting the 523 needed is rather impossible.
There's also the cloth badge gear, though that may not have enough stats to outweigh the haste. The way I'm seeing this is that there are two effectiveness breakpoints. Think of a 6 second cycle as you refresh Lifebloom on the target every 6 seconds (is that actually true? duration is 7, with haste and good latency could we refresh every 6.5?). Anyway, we have our cycle length X with 0% haste, which currently allows four GCDs per cycle. The far breakpoint is the new theoretical maximum, Lifebloom every 1s for 6 GCDs per cycle, unobtainable with current gear. The middle breakpoint is probably the relevant one - how much haste would you need to get 5 GCDs per primary Lifebloom? Haste less than that won't let you do much besides get the initial stacks up slightly faster.


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Old 02/01/08, 3:04 PM   #173
Pyros
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Originally Posted by Liebestod View Post
Yea, that's a fair point... spell haste really won't help Druid single-target healing, now have it increase the rate of Lifebloom ticks and we're in business, maybe...

But it will definitely help for spot healing. It'll just be hard to do a numerical analysis of its value, though. I guess you could look at the extreme case where you're continually throwing lifeblooms to see how much spell haste helps.
I could only imagine doing bloodboil with 1s lifeblooms, keeping almost the entire bloodboil groups alive for such a small mana cost. But yea, while haste will not be a useless stat, it's also to the point where we can't really get close to enough haste for it to really matter too much. Just means that I might bid min dkp to get the haste gloves from teron next time we go, and might want to spend some point on illidan cloak and so on. The annoying thing is most haste items are also not the best +heal item for their slots, I'd gladly trade my mana regen for more haste, since I often get a spriest, and thus mp5/spirit is close to useless for me, but trading healing isn't so hot.

Might change with sunwell items, and might be the reason they're changing this. Hell maybe even the tier 6.5 set might actually have a set bonus that does something for lifebloom, like reducing its GCD to by 0.2secs. Enough with the Healing Touch/Regrowth set bonuses.

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Old 02/01/08, 3:08 PM   #174
BOHIC
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EDIT: And I'm an idiot... I can't read WoW forums at work, but I got the info that the post starting this haste discussion came from in another thread. My fault. (feel free to delete this post, mods)

Last edited by BOHIC : 02/01/08 at 3:14 PM. Reason: General Idiocy

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Old 02/01/08, 3:11 PM   #175
Playered
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600x7(sec) = 4200 damage.
1.6k blooms and 250 ticks = 3400~ per 7 sec, and I believe that at this level you should be healing abit more than that (buffs, Imp Spi, Amp Magic etc...)

A Resto Druid can keep up a Bloodboil group alone as it is, this haste buff changes nothing there except you might be able to roll a LB on a tank while also doing this.

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Old 02/01/08, 3:18 PM   #176
Norfair
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I just did the numbers again, 33% faster casting, I think that's not correct. According to the WoWWiki page it should be 50% extra casting speed to get from 1.5 to 1.0, resulting in even higher amount of haste rating needed: 785 haste rating needed to get to a 1.0 sec global cooldown.

Originally Posted by malthrin View Post
There's also the cloth badge gear, though that may not have enough stats to outweigh the haste. The way I'm seeing this is that there are two effectiveness breakpoints. Think of a 6 second cycle as you refresh Lifebloom on the target every 6 seconds (is that actually true? duration is 7, with haste and good latency could we refresh every 6.5?). Anyway, we have our cycle length X with 0% haste, which currently allows four GCDs per cycle. The far breakpoint is the new theoretical maximum, Lifebloom every 1s for 6 GCDs per cycle, unobtainable with current gear. The middle breakpoint is probably the relevant one - how much haste would you need to get 5 GCDs per primary Lifebloom? Haste less than that won't let you do much besides get the initial stacks up slightly faster.
Considering 0.5 sec per Lifebloom cycle on "lag", you'd need get 6.5 seconds to cast 5 spells, which is 1.3 per Lifebloom. Going from 1.5 to 1.3 requires 15.4% faster casting, resulting in 242 haste rating (113 if you'd have 0 lag), so yeah, guess every bit of haste rating above that allows a bit more room for lag or imperfect button bashing.


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Old 02/01/08, 4:02 PM   #177
ppilatee
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Sadly, even the minimal 220 is way out of reach without nerfing the shit out of +healing....

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Old 02/01/08, 4:11 PM   #178
Noressa
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Yes, but it depends on the potential healing you're doing with the extra global cooldown.

Originally Posted by tiberion02 View Post
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Old 02/01/08, 5:44 PM   #179
Lailoken
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Originally Posted by Norfair View Post
I just did the numbers again, 33% faster casting, I think that's not correct. According to the WoWWiki page it should be 50% extra casting speed to get from 1.5 to 1.0, resulting in even higher amount of haste rating needed: 785 haste rating needed to get to a 1.0 sec global cooldown.
On the WoWWiki page about haste is this formula:
Hasted Speed = Weapon Speed / ( (1+(Haste 1 %/100)) * (1+Haste 2 %/100)) * (1+(((Haste Rating 1 + Haste Rating 2 + ... )/100)/10.52)))

Using that you can calculate what you need (someone let me know if my math is just plain wrong):

1 = 1.5 / (1+((HasteRating/100)/10.52)))

1+((HasteRating/100)/10.52)) = 1.5

(HasteRating/100)/10.52 = 0.5

HasteRating/100 = 5.26

HasteRating = 526

If you just use the conversion of 15.7 Haste Rating per 1% and multiply it by 33.33 you get about 523. The difference is probably due to rounding.

In order to get the 5th GCD into your rotation you'd need:

1.3 = 1.5 / (1+((HasteRating/100)/10.52)))

blahblahblah

HasteRating = 315.6

Not very likely unless you're trying to gimp yourself. However, you do have to consider not only the possibility of item changes in Sunwell, but this haste change may be foreshadowing things to come in WotLK. Perhaps with insane item budgets and Inscription the GCD will be easily knocked down to 1.3 seconds.

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Old 02/01/08, 6:40 PM   #180
ppilatee
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1.5 Second GCD, you need ~13.34% to get down to 1.3...

So, ~210 haste to hit 1.3, with no lag, correct?

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