lairpie

I almost feel that every druid should put a little block in their sig about their normal raid makeup because it has such a huge huge impact on everything they say. Like for me, our usual setup is 1 DS priest, 2 paladins, 2 trees, 1 shaman. Sometimes we'll bring another healer for either particularly healing intensive fights ie bloodboil, or for hyjal as one of our normal holy palys is tanking (stays holy because sucking at healing on bosses makes him /wrists, just wears tanking gear).

Perhaps more than anything, the presence of a second resto druid takes hots in general from a mere hp buffer that heals a bit, to a primary form of healing. Like for hyjal we have our priest assigned to follow 1 prot warrior around as he takes a mob and goes and gets 1/2 the npcs, and 1 paly heals another tank who goes and gets all the other npcs. that leaves 2 trees worth of hots doing all of the healing on the remaining tanks with a shaman chain spamming random damage, and a paly doing some raid healing / some random reactive tank healing.

Last night on archimonde i looked and there was a period, with some pretty annoying fires cutting off healers, a fear, and a dumb lock that managed to get doomfired like 2-3 times and suck up healing, where the tank went 25 seconds just fine without getting a single direct heal, just hots and earth shield. With roughly 4k of every 3 second heals (1 renew, 2 rejuvs, 2 regrowths) and almost 2k per second of lifeblooms along with some earth shield procs, our direct healers know they don't have to constantly heal the tanks because we also have 2 swiftmends and 3 NS heals ready if we ever need them.

Changing the lineup of what and how many healers you have will have huge implications as to what spells you use.

 

Bigtoy

Many good points. I believe that the fundamental issue is Blizzard trying to balance preemptive versus reactive heals. Traditional healing is reactive "whack-a-mole" (or for good healers, predictive) where heals are cast in response to damage. Druids are the only primary healer class that's preemptive, we wind our HoTs up and then keep the flywheel spinning. The only other abilities that are similar are Prayer of Mending and Earthshield. The tricky game-balance is that Blizzard does not want preemptive healing to be powerful enough by itself to render reactive healing unnecessary. If all healing was preemptive, then there would be no need to react and Blizzard thinks that would be bad (and I agree).

So to reframe your question slightly, what druids Bring To The Raid (tm) is superior preemptive healing. Preemptive healing helps prevent the great raid wiper: spike damage. When the unlucky string of hits occurs, two variables determine survival: stamina and healing throughput in those 2-3 seconds. HoTs provide less HPS than heal-bombing... but what they are is instantaneous. The lifebloom starts to tick immediately when the unlucky streak starts therefore their value isn't in throughput it's functionally increasing the MT's HP pool. So between our HoTs and the most powerful/lowest cooldown instant cast in the game (Swiftmend) we are spike smoothers. Balancing that with traditional healing is going to be tricky. We can't be worthless, but it's very easy for our style of healing to be too powerful.

 

Norfair

Since that very cool idea of Blizzard to remove stamina and give us a bit of haste rating instead, I figured to check what you gain and lose if you choose to take t6. Here are my findings:

Thunderheart Bracers - Rejuvenating Bracers (sockets + bonus stay the same):
-16 stamina
2 intellect
3 spirit
17 haste rating
9 +healing
5 mp5

Thunderheart Belt - Life-step Belt (if you socket for bonus):
-20 stamina
7 intellect
9 spirit
20 haste rating
2 +healing
3 mp5

Thunderheart Boots - Boots of Divine Light (if you socket for bonus):
-47 stamina
3 intellect
2 spirit
26 haste rating
22 +healing
8 mp5

Keep f**king that chicken.

 

lairpie

But if you don't socket for the bonuses anyway, you're losing a little +healing and a lot of sta to gain mana, which is almost funny at this point, and post 2.4 will be even more comical, and haste which is situational at best.

Brewmaster of WBC

 

• Playered

Well bracers alone, slap a 15sta gem and your missing (1) stamina from before, and you gain 17haste or so, decent trade-off.
Belt again you end up loosing a pathetically small amount of stamina (5) but you will loose the socket bonus (2spi) which is not really an issue.
Boots are the only debatable ones depending which you were using before, you'll miss around 20 stamina in total from them on a best-case scenario.

I know its somewhat unethical to put anything but a +healing gem in sockets these days but... those poor Spinels will finally be safe for some time, while the amassing hoards of Sapphires will be confronted in an epic battle!

 

lairpie

A change to the initial post:

it has:
I believe the doubling of while casting spirit regen last major patch makes the statement that 15 spirit pales in comparison to 6mp5 pretty inaccurate. 15 spirit (assuming you're innervating yourself, have living spirit, have kings, which are all pretty reasonable assumptions) is between 5-6 mp5, depending on innervate timing. If you're in a tank group, having an extra 4-5 healing for everyone healing the tank is most definitely better than a fraction of an mp5. Next patch 15 spirit will be probably be better for regen alone though i couldn't keep a strait face trying to read a thread about how they were giving druids even more mana, so i don't know the exact numbers.

Brewmaster of WBC

 

• giansm

lairpie: Thanks, I forgot to update that part of the post. I think the rest of it should be okay. The new wording is:

About the next patch, I've put a few links at the top of the first post to various posts in this thread that have information that will be incorporated if the changes stick (so far about haste, the lifebloom coefficient, and spirit). The one relevant to chest enchants is #238. Basically the word is that currently on the PTR, Major Spirit is always better than Restore Mana Prime, even if you don't innervate yourself.

 

• Playered

Correct, assuming Living Spirt and Kings the +15 Spirit enchant yields:
600 Int / 500 Spi (T6~) 6 MP5 passive bonus and 19 OO5SR regeneration.
500 Int / 400 Spi (T4~) 5 MP5 passive bonus and 18 OO5SR regeneration.

The additional Innervate is a bonus ontop, as is any regeneration while OO5SR making it more useful than just MP5.
Stats on chest result in a 3 MP5 / 10 OO5SR regeneration from the Int/Spi alone at T6 level.

 

Karmen

Another feral here that will be switching to resto soon due to a lack of healers. I've been going through the thread and think I have a good handle on everything, plus I healed pre-tbc to a decent extent so I'm not at a total loss here. I already have macro's and grid setup in a way that I like so I just need to get in there and do it at this point and learn by doing but I do have a couple of minor gear questions.

Since I have been raiding as feral my resto gear varies to a large degree. I have some pretty decent items such as [Guise of the Tidal Lurker] and [Rejuvenating Bracers]. My big concern though is that I do have some slots that are sub-optimal to say the least. I think I know what are the biggest needs but I'd like to list them here and the options I see and get some feedback on it. I'll list my question in regards to what I think my biggest upgrade needs are.

Cloak - Currently have [Cloak of Whispering Shells]. Looks like I could just go get [Apexis Cloak] or should I just drop the 60 badges for the [Kharmaa's Shroud of Hope]?

Rings - Currently using [Ancestral Band] and [Vindicator's Band of Salvation]. I'm guessing the Vindicator's will be fine for now but I don't see any other option for the Ancestral but turning in my Kara tank ring for an exalted healing ring. Seems like the best option though, no?

Trinkets - I basically only have the [Lower City Prayerbook] but I do have enough honor and marks saved up for a [Battlemaster's Perseverance]. EotM seems like my best other option unless I'm missing something here as using that and the Battlemaster's in tandem seem to be the best combo currently unless you have a Memento.

I think those are my biggest needs atm. I have some subpar pieces but the only real upgrades for them are in BT/Hyjal so I suppose it's not a big deal. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Late Night Raiding www.skeletoncrew.org

 

◊ Noressa

1) Essence of the Martyr is one of the top 2 trinkets currently available to us. Pick it up. The Battlemasters trinket is a nice second choice, swapping in Lower City Prayerbook when you need more mana.

2) Rings- I'd personally go for Cosmic Lifeband over Ancestral, and see about getting into "badge" Kara runs for the jade ring off of the prince. If you'd rather wait, just pick up the haste ring from BT trash. You should also get the Band of the Eternal Restorer from Hyjal.

3) Cloaks - How are you on DKP/however you do loot? I'd say pick up the cloak from Bloodboil if you can, but until then grab the Shroud of Hope.

Original Post by Boogsy: Now by benefactor, I am guessing that I am in fact, benefiting from the wealth of knowledge here. Or perhaps it is just benefiting from the Benefactor's Bar....a wonderful place for which I am just exploring.....and preparing to be attacked perhaps a few times
RIP Boogsy

 

• giansm

Cloak: [Apexis Cloak] is good. [Kharmaa's Shroud of Hope] has slightly less +healing but in my opinion makes up for that in stamina and mp5. However, it's not so much of a difference that you need to spend 60 badges if you are saving for the new stuff next patch. If you are short on badges anyway, you could run Karazhan and play the lottery for [Stainless Cloak of the Pure Hearted]. That cloak, or the Apexis one, will tide you over until [Shroud of Forgiveness] drops.

Rings: Yours are pretty good. I wouldn't replace your blue ring with the Violet Eye ring unless you are really sure you are never going back feral, since the only advantage the Violet Eye ring has right now is the stamina. The +healing and mana regen are about the same (on live). If you are exalted with Hyjal you should get [Band of the Eternal Restorer] since that one is legitimately good. You can play the Karazhan lottery for [Jade Ring of the Everliving]. There's also the ZA ring [Signet of the Quiet Forest] and BT trash ring [Blessed Band of Karabor]. I don't think there's anything wrong with waiting for one of those three to drop (but do get the exalted Hyjal one if you can).

Trinkets: Good druid trinkets are really easy to get. Use some combination of [Lower City Prayerbook], [Essence of the Martyr], [Battlemaster's Perseverance], and [Bangle of Endless Blessings]. Wear Martyr and Battlemaster's if you don't have issues with mana. If you do have mana issues, wear either Martyr or Battlemaster's and complement it with the Prayerbook or Bangle.

 

Karmen

Thanks for the responses.

Currently I am short badges as I just bought up the FR gear for tanking the Flames on Illidan (hopefully he goes down this week if not next). So yes my options are a bit limited and therefore I haven't spent much time yet going over the 2.4 badge gear as I have more short term issues to deal with. In my cursory glances none of it looks better than T6 level gear and I dropped herb/alch for skinning/lw for the chest and gloves.

So basically at this point I really just need to get the [Apexis Cloak] and take care of my trinket situation. Last set of gear questions, if I don't need to spend badges on anything except EotM which other badge gear, if any, would be a worthwhile effort compared to my current items.

Shoulders = [Forest Wind Shoulderpads]
Belt = [Vindicator's Kodohide Belt]
Leggings = [Earthsoul Leggings]

I'm guessing the shoulders would be the best but in what I've learned so far it seems Life-Step is the best belt even post 2.4 unless you want a spell haste belt. So belt would be the better item to use the badges on?

Late Night Raiding www.skeletoncrew.org

 

• giansm

Life-Step hasn't been available for badges in a really long time, it's from the first chest in ZA (unless they changed it on me again). Also at this point I think I will refer you to the loot rank link from the first post: loot rank. It's a 2.3 lootrank, so it doesn't factor in haste at all and it somewhat undervalues spirit and intellect, but it is a generally decent guide to finding new gear.

You can also use this preliminary lootrank based on PTR valuations of spirit: loot rank. It also doesn't factor in haste, but I think haste is probably a stat that will never really be factored into these types of loot rank pages, due to the break-point nature of the stat (you need X amount, no more no less, to get 5 GCD per cycle). If you want to go for 5 GCDs, then instead of messing with loot rank values you would just pick items that are further down the list but have haste on them until you get the magic number.

 

Pyros

I'd say the shoulders are your best option. Those legs aren't bad at all because you can add 3 healing gems, and you also have pretty much 3options for new legs in T6 content(T6 legs, akama legs and archimonde cloth legs, in that order from worse to best, imo). The belt can be upgraded with a few ZA runs unless your luck really sucks, getting cord of troll braided hair or lifestep belt, lifestep being a tad better but not a huge difference, and those 2 are better than the badge one as far as I remember.

The badge shoulders are really good tho, and unless you can get another sharaz token(I guess you already have tanking one if you're tanking flames, means you're one of the main feral tanks) or want to level tailoring, there's no options. Illidari council leather shoulders are terrible, and the cloth one from akama are pretty bad too(lack of sockets). If you don't mind tailoring tho, primal mooncloth is still close to the best healing item for their slots for druids.

The belt is on par with lifestep, the shoulders are the best in the game and the robe is equal to T6. The obvious problem is the lack of stam, but never been an issue for me, I have enough hps with raid buffs and the rest of my gear, I do use vindicator neck and kahrma shroud of hope, and was using vindicator ring till last week.

 

• Playered

T4, T5, or T6 shoulders are all pretty solid items, and Gruul pug runs or anything should be a good way of getting the weaker one which is still better than the Kara ones and you might be able to get the Legs too but im not sure they will compare to 18/x3 gemmed Kara legs unless you want the proc.

Ask your guild (as your respec'ing for the guild benefit) to run it with as many as you can and maybe get some pugs in, get Shoulders + Legs and maybe some lucky DPSer will get DST aswell (can you ever get enough of them?!)

Lower City + EoTM are great early level combinations where you might not have ample enough regeneration for your level of content too (just remember to bind LCPB to your LB macro).



On another note, our new T6 items are pretty damned solid now to a point where no one can complain I think.

 

Vayeate

I'm in the same boat as Karmen, and have the terrible kara shoulders I've got the badges for the badge shoulders but I think I'm going to wait and see if I can't snag a T5 token.

Also something you could look into I'm going to see about, if your guild has ssc/tk on farm then you've probably got vortexes laying around, belt of the long road isn't exactly terrible. Vindie belt is awesome too, but grinding honor in my BG is like slamming your face against a wall, so thats probably what I'm going to shoot for.

 

Vayeate

I was really considering this until I remembered Najentus and how many times the priest in PMC and a couple mages dropped like rocks on a burst after being spiked, if their hp isn't topped off they were dead.

I love the +Heal but the lack of stats makes me weak at the knees.

----



Reminds me something else I've beenw anting to bring up while regearing, I got [Gnarled Chestpiece of the Ancients] a few months back when I was still feral and recently picked up [Stonebough Jerkin] off Nightbane and theres been some shifty talk when I ask different people which BP is better, obviously the +heal is substantial but the mp5 is crazy, with such in mind and 2.4 around the corner would the Gnarled be better with a 15 spi enchant on it then the Nightbane chest? I know my gear is subpar in terms of Mp5, but I suck down mana pots with an insanity so regen doesn't both me as much, but I just need the notion. All the gear sites say that the Tidewalker chest is utter poop.

Thanks

 

fuzzynavel

ZA one is by far better. Especially in 2.4 where you will gain a significant amount of mp5 form your current gear. Like it has been stated, stack healing first.

 

Pyros

Non factor in my opinion, as long as you don't stack the rest with low stam items too. I have more hps than any priests in the guild, and for najentus specifically you can switch your pmc out. For everything else it's straight out better, I've killed illidan, but since I haven't got T6 chest/shoulders yet, I'm still using primal mooncloth, and I don't bother switching it for any fight. I have around 8600hps base I think in my current gear, with primal mooncloth. It's more than enough for anything, you only lose like 800hps after all. The only reason to value stamina as a healer is if you're a paladin/shaman(lack of instant heals), or you have fat fingers and can't hit healthstone or heal yourself fast enough. And obviously, if you can't live thru a single random targetted attack from full hps, but doubt that's even possible with stam/motw/kings.

 

Vayeate

Hrm now I'm really considering dropping mining for tailoring. anyone else have any input on it? Specifically I'm going to a new guild who has dkp for a while but aren't cleared out much, so I think having 3 pieces would definitely help. But they usually only run a couple priests and max 2 druids so theres going to be a ton of healing gear rolling around.

Gah just thinking outloud and I'm split. After seeing the new trash drops I'm really sad I dropped LW for JC but I make so much money. Hearing from a druid who uses PMC in BT makes me feel better about doing it but I ask my friends and they all say not to. None of them are healers either though.

 

Touf

So...drop mining for LW? I think LW is much better for you overall. The drums can make up for any stats on PMC.

 

Pyros

Erm no. Simply, no. The reason PMC is so good is because of its very high healing. Drums are for mana regen mostly, and this is pretty much pointless now and even more so next patch. HOWEVER, next patch the LW crafted are much better than the tailoring crafted.

It all depends on how long you think PTR will stay before going live. I'm dropping tailoring for LW whenever I can get replacement for my PMC myself, even tho I'll definitely lose stats for doing so, even by replacing PMC with T6. But drums will be more of a side bonus for people in my group than for me. I did run out of mana the other day, it happens once every 2weeks or so. I was in tank group for teron, and we had 9(sigh) healers, a prot paladin and a prot war, on top of our feral tanking it. Which means dps was crawling and I had no mana regen, so I ended up running out of mana(bad planning tho I didn't notice we had so few dps before I was oom).

What I did for LW, and what you could do, is I leveled skinning on another char(you could level on your main if you don't have alts), and stockpiled all the leather I'd need to level LW, following one of those tradeskill guide thingie. Then you can drop skinning and take LW instead, and still keep JC. It's obviously easier with alts but well if you don't have one, you can definitely manage by juggling with tradeskills. There's quite a bit of time before patch, and making money to level these isn't so hard if you put a bit effort in it.

Pre patch, I'd say tailoring is definitely the best tradeskill for entry level T6, the one that'll give you the best bonus compared to the rest. If you have T5 shoulders/chest and ZA belt, that might not be true, but that's not the norm. Enchanting isn't bad either with +40healing perma, the rest is mostly useless and fluff. Post 2.4, LW is probably the best simply because the 2 new craftables are better than anything you can get, even from sunwell, at least until muru~kiljaeden.

 

• Playered

Leatherworking also has Windhawk set which has better stats than PMC, slightly lower healing (especially chest..) however despite being a DPS set isn't that bad when gemmed for healing, and the drums make up for the MP5 loss.
This isn't using any of the badge or ZA healing loot which are no doubt better but still...

You can get by fine without going Tailoring, or you can gem PMC with +15 gems if you are concerned amount stamina aswell.


Re 2.4 Tailor vs LW - generally LW crafted = cloth drop, cloth crafted = LW drop. The LW chest is better than the T7 one unless you really want that haste and you have far too much regen you can afford to loose so much.

 

Karmen

I dropped herb/alch for skinning/lw, almost done with that. At that point I might start a new alt for mining and drop skinning for Eng as the 2.4 goggles look pretty damn nice.

Late Night Raiding www.skeletoncrew.org

 

Vayeate

Yeah I've still been kicking it around, and I agree LW is pretty wicked, but the tailoring trash craftables aren't exactly terrible either. My issue with this is I like money, it's why I became a JC (though the 26 healing gem rocks) I was a 375 LW from the expansion until about a month ago. I never made any money unless I spent hours upon end farming leather, obviously not being feral anymore would now put a MAJOR issue for my lvling skinning/lw.

I figure I could go feral again throw on some dps gear and farm some instances for a few days and scrounge up all the cloth I need to PL tailoring. Plus, primal mooncloth bags sell for 400g+ on most server.

It's just a thought but, maybe when I get enough gold saved up I'd do it.


How do the LW and Cloth Patterns differ in worth post-2.4?

I hunted down the pics from mmochamp for a quick link..

~ Leather ~

~ Cloth ~

Obviously the mp5 is simply crazy stupid but you get a LOT more out of spirit/int in 2.4 as well right? Anyone have a decent breakdown?