Raiding as a Tree - Page 17

Norfair · 02/15/08, 1:47 AM

Originally Posted by giansm

About the spirit changes on the PTR, I spent a little bit of time messing around with the formula people are shaking out in the Intellect -> Spirit Conversion on the PTR : Theorycrafting HQ thread (the one that looks like Regen_mp5 = 5*0.00932715221261 * sqrt(Int) * Spirit). I don't plan to update the first post until the changes go live but if that formula is accurate then there are a few implications that stand out:

*list*

I haven't been keeping up very well with the new items in 2.4 (just the new mechanics) and so I'm not sure if there are any sweet new consumables or gems that invalidate some of this. As usual these calculations all assume Living Spirit and Blessing of Kings. Also, keep in mind that this is all based on a formula that was theorycrafted on a test realm that has been up for only a few days, so it is obviously subject to change!

Yes, and in addition, choosing between: [Touch of Inspiration] and [Scepter of Purification], and choosing between [Shroud of the Final Stand] and [Shroud of Forgiveness] is not a trade-off anymore, in both case the spirit-items give almost as much mana, but more +healing, so they are clearly better now. I haven't seen any new PvE healing cloak in Sunwell yet, so probably Shroud of Forgiveness is now the best healing cloak till WotLK.

Funboy · 02/15/08, 10:38 AM

I'm not allowed to create new threads and this was the closest to what I was seeking...

My question is pretty simple. With the change to the 4pc Resto Arena set where would haste rating begin to apply?

Naturalist lowering HT to 3.0
4pc Arena lowering HT to 2.75
NG proc lowering HT to 2.25

Would be interesting to use for Bloodboilesque fights where hot's just don't cut it.

Noressa · 02/15/08, 11:25 AM

HOT's do perfectly fine healing bloodboil, no healing touch needed. Just do 1 lifebloom on each person down the line, letting it bloom. In 2.4 stack ~242 haste and you can roll lifeblooms on all 5 targets for the duration. The haste calculations are earlier in this thread if you want to get numbers for a specific spell/your latency. For an extra GCD assuming instants 242 is the generally accepted initial goal.
http://elitistjerks.com/622740-post182.html

Funboy · 02/15/08, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Noressa

HOT's do perfectly fine healing bloodboil, no healing touch needed. Just do 1 lifebloom on each person down the line, letting it bloom. In 2.4 stack ~242 haste and you can roll lifeblooms on all 5 targets for the duration. The haste calculations are earlier in this thread if you want to get numbers for a specific spell/your latency. For an extra GCD assuming instants 242 is the generally accepted initial goal.
http://elitistjerks.com/622740-post182.html

Sorry, I wasn't specific enough. I'm talking about healing the fel enraged person where a lot of direct heals are needed quickly.

Pyros · 02/15/08, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Funboy

Sorry, I wasn't specific enough. I'm talking about healing the fel enraged person where a lot of direct heals are needed quickly.

That's a very specific build(dreamstate), with specific gear from pvp content, all to spam a very mana inneficient spell on the felraged person, when truly the other healers are enough. I'd say it's not worth it. And if you're not using S2, or maybe even S3, you're losing tons of healing, especially depending on how you gem it since it's mostly pvp gear, so you might want to gem it for pvp.

It's not like during fel rage you can go take a coffee because there's nothing to do for a druid. Sure hots don't cut it on felrage, but you can keep the tanks up from the breath stuff, and help on last bloodboil group to free whoever was on it so he can heal felrage. Regrowth/swiftmend every 12secs is good too, not insane, but it helps, and you can be on healing the tanks who intervene the fel rage. And if everything else is ok, a 3stack lifebloom+rejuv isn't that bad healing, it's not greater heal/holy light spam, but it still heals 2.5k/sec or something close.

Vayeate · 02/15/08, 2:02 PM

Originally Posted by giansm

The [Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon] would also increase in effectiveness, probably ending up around 50-70 mp5.

Very interesting, so this would be a viable trinket for long fights. I'd imagine the mp5 casting regen trinkets like these would be even better with the haste gear because well the more you cast the more it procs.

Might hafta whip out the feral gear and head to UBRS for some beast farming.

Freddie · 02/15/08, 3:01 PM

Ah, thanks for linking that post, Noressa. Seems like it will be nigh on impossible to gather enough haste rating to go from 4 to 5 casts, given that I have 350-500ms latency. Some nights it's a struggle to keep 4 spells happening :o

Funboy · 02/15/08, 3:20 PM

Originally Posted by Pyros

That's a very specific build(dreamstate), with specific gear from pvp content, all to spam a very mana inneficient spell on the felraged person, when truly the other healers are enough. I'd say it's not worth it. And if you're not using S2, or maybe even S3, you're losing tons of healing, especially depending on how you gem it since it's mostly pvp gear, so you might want to gem it for pvp.

It's not like during fel rage you can go take a coffee because there's nothing to do for a druid. Sure hots don't cut it on felrage, but you can keep the tanks up from the breath stuff, and help on last bloodboil group to free whoever was on it so he can heal felrage. Regrowth/swiftmend every 12secs is good too, not insane, but it helps, and you can be on healing the tanks who intervene the fel rage. And if everything else is ok, a 3stack lifebloom+rejuv isn't that bad healing, it's not greater heal/holy light spam, but it still heals 2.5k/sec or something close.

Oh, I know. I normally keep the tanks hotted up during enrage. It was just an interesting thing to toy with. With 300 haste rating, the 4pc S3 and an NG proc it got down to 1.88 seconds for a HT in my calculations. But the whole thing is moot now because they changed the 4pc to -.2 off regrowth.

You have to admit that 1.88 seconds for a HT sounds pretty good even if it's just to compete for overhealing. Funboy crits for 2300{5600}.

Lailoken · 02/15/08, 4:10 PM

Originally Posted by Pyros

There's a huge difference between what you posted and
#showtooltip
#show Lifebloom
/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/use Lower City Prayerbook
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
/script UIErrorsFrame:Show()
/cast [target=mouseover] Lifebloom

You don't need both #showtooltip and #show Lifebloom. Just put #showtooltip Lifebloom.

Also, /script UIErrorsFrame:Hide() and /script UIErrorsFrame:Show() are superfluous. Just stick /script UIErrorsFrame:Clear() after the trinket and it has the desired effect.

#showtooltip Lifebloom
/use Lower City Prayerbook
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
/cast [target=mouseover] Lifebloom

That's all you need. It leaves a lot more space for adding in other things if you like.

GTtheBard · 02/15/08, 4:37 PM

Originally Posted by Vayeate

Very interesting, so this would be a viable trinket for long fights. I'd imagine the mp5 casting regen trinkets like these would be even better with the haste gear because well the more you cast the more it procs.

Might hafta whip out the feral gear and head to UBRS for some beast farming.

As it stands, I currently have the Bangle and Blue Dragon as my Resto trinkets. My guild is only in Gruul's/SSC, but I rarely have mana problems, and there have been many times since where I could give my Innervate to a Priest and still be okay. Unfortunately, I only got to use the combo for a bit, and then I decided to go Feral for a while...Swift Flight Form broke me, and you can't kill anything as Resto. Can't wait until 2.4 though, cause the spirit buff has me itching to heal again...as it stands, I shouldn't need any Trinkets for a loong time, cause those two will scale very nicely as my Spirit gets higher.

Bring some friends along to UBRS - you need three people to unlock the elemental boss, and then the door gets opened to Leroy's room. Otherwise, it should be totally soloable/stealthable. The Blue Dragon is VERY worthwhile for boss fights, good luck!

Another general note about the guide - very well written, I enjoyed it immensely. However, I didn't notice anything about the mechanics of shifting into Tree Form - how equipping a +spirit weapon like [Nightstaff of the Everliving] and using [Bangle of Endless Blessings] can up your tree buff. Should something like that be included, or am I mistaken about how the tree aura is calculated?

Playered · 02/15/08, 5:56 PM

Originally Posted by GTtheBard

Another general note about the guide - very well written, I enjoyed it immensely. However, I didn't notice anything about the mechanics of shifting into Tree Form - how equipping a +spirit weapon like [Nightstaff of the Everliving] and using [Bangle of Endless Blessings] can up your tree buff. Should something like that be included, or am I mistaken about how the tree aura is calculated?

The problem is Pre-2.4 spirit was shit and you lowered your potential power of LB by gimping your stats in favor of spirit, and ToL Aura is technically one of the weaker MT group buffs.
Its somewhat like the saying "prevention is better than the cure" - reducing the damage taken is a better option than being able to heal up said damage abit easier afterwards.
With both Bangle and Darkmoon you have far too much emphasis on regeneration and Essence of the Matyr would be a better replacement for one of them.

Concerning ToL aura its applied at current time of spell cast, so pimping your spirit then shifting into tree does nothing because once your pimped spirit fades your buff lowers down too.

Lailoken · 02/15/08, 7:00 PM

Originally Posted by GTtheBard

Another general note about the guide - very well written, I enjoyed it immensely. However, I didn't notice anything about the mechanics of shifting into Tree Form - how equipping a +spirit weapon like [Nightstaff of the Everliving] and using [Bangle of Endless Blessings] can up your tree buff. Should something like that be included, or am I mistaken about how the tree aura is calculated?

They fixed that a while ago. The bonus readjusts to your current amount of spirit while in treeform.

Pyros · 02/15/08, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by GTtheBard

Bring some friends along to UBRS - you need three people to unlock the elemental boss, and then the door gets opened to Leroy's room. Otherwise, it should be totally soloable/stealthable. The Blue Dragon is VERY worthwhile for boss fights, good luck!

Yea the 3person thing is really what's preventing me from farming it as much as I want. I have 2 accounts so I only need one more person, but blackrock is still in the middle of nowhere, and you can't use the summoning stone at 70, so getting someone to come just to click on the crap is hard. If someone knows any trick to bypass the whole thing, I'll take, else I'll have to resort to paying random nubs in town to come click for me. As alliance with Ironforge being right next to it I guess it's not so much of an issue tho.

meringue · 02/17/08, 9:37 AM

So our guild has recently experienced a healer shortage resulting in this bear being converted to tree. In some raids I am the third tree, but still only 7th healer. Due to the fact that I raided feral until last Wednesday, I have mostly gear that the regular resto's didn't want or already had (go go Vashj shoulders). We have had some success since I switched, killing both Teron Gorefiend and Gurtogg Bloodboil this week. So now we are a 4/5 and 5/9 guild. Here is my dilemma: do I run with my druid main in mixed kara/T5 gear + Shroud of the Final Stand (thanks Supremus trash!) as the third tree or is my raid spot better filled with my T4 holy pally? I really wanted my druid in for BT this week so I could make all the shadow resist patterns, and that rep is obtained now. I prefer the mobile and varied healing style of the druid but from reading the thread it looks like the 3rd tree is rather superfluous. Both are keyed for T6, although that was supposed to be for emergencies only. So my questions are: when is it strongly preferred to bring the paladin over the druid and what assignments do you give to three trees in a 7 healer raid. I figure I'm boned on DKP no matter which one is in the raid, but I'd prefer to only have to gear up one. Armory profiles included for gear comparison, ideally it will notice that the pally is no longer wearing her Lovely Purple Dress soon. Thanks for assistance!

Meringue, druid
Ephelea, paladin

Norfair · 02/17/08, 10:03 AM

I think something's wrong with your paladin's armory, it doesn't show all items and it says 1100 +healing and only 33 mp5. I assume you don't want to go with those stats into BT/Hyal. But yes, an extra paladin is nice as long as you don't have 3 yet, but we sometimes run with 3 trees as well and it works. If the gear difference is too huge, I'd suggest taking your druid or just run Kara/ZA/heroics like crazy with your paladin in order to get some nice badge gear.