Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Urban Rivals
Forums
New Posts


Go Back   Elitist Jerks > Public Discussion > Class Mechanics > Druids
Elitist Jerks Login

gamerDNA Login

Welcome to Elitist Jerks
We're testing some new features on the site regarding OpenID registration and coordination with gamerDNA. If you experience any issues with registering an account, please take the time to fill out a report and send it to this e-mail address. We would appreciate any assistance you could provide in making sure everything is functioning as intended. Thanks!

If this is your first visit, please be sure to check out the FAQ and the forum rules. Users must register to post and new registrations are subject to a one day "mute" period to get acquainted with the community.

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack (3659) Thread Tools
Old 03/13/08, 12:45 PM   #526
Ribeye
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Malfurion
Context is important, so I'll add some. While I might of had a shadow priest at some point, it was only because I was running out of mana and asked to be put into the shadow priest group for a couple ticks. We only had one that night and as a rule we generaly put the shadow priest with the mages if theres only one. My job in that fight was to keep Draviene alive. I could've just done that but decided to do that *and* heal anyone else who I thought might die. I wasn't so much pointing out the number of my healing but pointing out that number in relation to the rest of the healers. We were missing 3 of our very strong healers and had several trials.

Anyways, the point was, we can really put out a lot of healing when we need to.
 
User is offline.
Old 03/13/08, 2:13 PM   #527
PowerBaton
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Priest
 
<MM>
Xavius (EU)
Originally Posted by Ribeye View Post
Anyways, the point was, we can really put out a lot of healing when we need to.
Sure, just gimme "not-topped" raid
 
User is offline.
Old 03/13/08, 4:55 PM   #528
lairpie
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Alterac Mountains
Originally Posted by PowerBaton View Post
Sure, just gimme "not-topped" raid
hence, 'when we need to'

That's long been one of my main points, that shaman and druids both scale in healing done a ton based on total available healing. A paladin or priest does a fairly set hps, maybe a bit higher when the damage is higher. A druid or a shaman with healing in short supply start churning out a ridiculous amount of healing. The normal fear with lack of total healing is tanks dying from not having 2-3 heals with a heal 1/2 way cast to counter bursts, but 2 stacks of lifebloom and rejuv combined with swiftmend, and NS virtually eliminate tank deaths from burst damage.

That's the main point that paladins hold as the reason their class kinda sucks for healing, the vast majority of the healing they do, could have just been done with hots a few seconds later. a druid, a paladin, and a shaman all healing together, the paladin might actually do more healing than the druid or shaman. Take away that paladin though, and there's a pretty good chance still no one would die. Take away the druid and the tank dies while the paladin and shaman are both casting heals on some damagers, take away the shaman, and there's not enough hps spread to counter an aoe on the raid.

Like ribeye, i've had a few fights where because a couple people were missing, or for a number of reasons, I've done just insane amounts of healing compared to everyone else. This owes largely to the fact that our guild's damagers are generally thought to be the weaker link, and we often drop healers for damagers sometimes to the point of just hoping we get a bit lucky with healing and tank mitigation in order to get enough damagers in to beat the fight. When you drop a lot of healers or have bad healers, druid numbers can shoot through the roof. He's not bragging, he's providing an example for people, and more to the point, providing an example of a druid doing a lot of healing without just stacking hots on 3-4 people and then doing the exact same 12 second cycle for 10 minutes.


@ Orblight.
Gear
If you're mostly just casting lifebloom and rejuv, and getting into t6 level gear, generally anything without sockets is bad. Why? Blizzard simply doesn't make items slanted enough towards +healing without you helping the slant with gems. Items like the enchanted leather sandals, poncho, and the veil of turning leaves are fine item level wise, but you simply don't need that much mana to chain cast lifebloom and rejuv, so the ton of mana from that spirit is kinda meh, and there are very few fights (um, kazrogal is all i can think of) where enough healing goes into one person for the spirit aura to be 'that' good. If you frequently aren't in a tank group and are in a group with a shaman and a SP those items go from not that good, to really terrible. Basically spirit is really good, but its not better than +healing. Nearly every item that is sta/spi/int/+healing with no sockets is basically just trading like 40 healing for 20 spirit or something like that. When you're in blue gear, you need more mana (at least if you're in a tank group), so 20 spirit is probably better than 40 healing. By the time you're wearing mostly t5/t6 gear, you can chain cast lifebloom and rejuv with basically the least mana available on gear + mana pots. The biggest catch of all, is the better spirit is in terms of the aura, fights where all of the damage is on one target, the less regen you need because all you can really do is keep up lbx3, rejuv, and regrowth, so the regen from spirit is even less valuable.

The za cloth chest, lifestep belt, and helm of natural something or another from za really, are all important to get. The chest and helm are pretty close to t6, and the belt is the best you can get. 3, 3, and 2 sockets, and no meta (since the 26 healing meta is kinda weak) are pretty nice. I'd take the TK belt over the haste belt from bt. I may change my thoughts on that next patch, but i doubt it. While i'm thinking about it, make sure you point out to your shaman how much better the leather haste gloves are than the mail haste gloves. its like, 2 socks with a good bonus instead of 4 stats or something. Tell them to take those gloves and keep their hands off your memento.

If you can get the ZA chest, I'd focus on getting t6 helm and gloves (conveniently the first 2 pieces you can get), not bother upgrading over t5 or badge shoulders, and get the cheaper off set stuff for legs. The amount of time you'll be the kilt of immortal nature before you'd have access to t6 leggings makes it well worth it. The only set bonus worth much at all is 2pc t6 and 2pc t4. I don't even remember what the other ones are without thinking about it. 2pc t5 isn't useless, but its not worth giving up much for. 4t6 sucks and 4t5 sucks. 4t4 is decent i guess, but again, not worth it to keep over using better gear.

In terms of selecting gems. I'd do pure healing in everything other than maybe some purified shadow pearls in a blue socket if the socket bonus is +healing. If there was a 5 spirit, 11 healing epic gem, i'd probably replace a couple of my gems with it where it made a socket bonus, like bracers, gloves, helm, but there isn't. If you find yourself a bit short on mana, use a few more royal or purifieds, other than that, pure +healing anywhere you can. I went pure reds and 1 orange to make the healing meta work, then when they changed it, i replaced the orange gem in my lifestep belt with a purified, but let everything else the same. Oh, and if you're short on mana, using the mana meta is a good way to get a lot of mana without giving up too much else, though it does require 2 yellows, but still worth it.

Groups
Our druids are both virtually always in the tank group. With 2 lifeblooms, 2 rejuvs, 2 regrowths, and at least 1 renew up for any fight where 1-2 people are tanking, our tanks don't die, like, hardly ever. If there's enough people needing healing that there aren't a boatload of hots on the tank, then the imp is probably just as useful in some other group. Also, partially because of this, all our locks are destro and don't like using imps anyway. Even on mother Sharaz which is one of the hardest hitting bosses, we had a pull yesterday (before we discovered you can just reset her if a few people die really early) where i think the almost the last 5 people alive were 2 resto druids and the 3 tanks. Basically that much constantly ticking healing almost completely eliminates the need for blood pact or totems for the tanks. We usually do r-druid, r-druid, holy-paly, prot warrior, prot warrior in the tank group, and for any aoe trash, our paly just puts on tank gear and tanks it holy (he does however die a lot because no amount of hots, or sta or anything keeps a holy paly alive long if the warriors and feral druids don't pick abombs off him fast enough) So for hyjal trash for isntance, there's about 350 of aura +healing on the 2 prot warriors and the tanking paly, that goes a hell of a long way in boosting healing. On fights where we just have 1 warrior tanking, a lot of the time we'll actually run resto shaman, 2 resto druids, a paly, and a warrior in group1. We basically do that any time there's just 1 tank unless the shaman needs a shadow priest. Having 2 druids in the tank group also frees up more spots in groups getting VT mana for other healers and casters that need the mana a lot more.




not @ orblight

JoW
So, i had mentioned that since they changed it so instants don't interrupt your autoswing, that meleeing bosses for jow procs should work great. I tested it and it does. You can sit there and be chain casting instants and you'll keep right on meleeing, wracking up tons of jow mana if your guild has a prot or ret paly that keeps jow up, or a holy paly that manages to keep it up a decent amount of the time. If you have ooc, even better. Also, while the 100 dps i do is pretty laughable, you doing that 100 dps is just as useful as one of your damagers getting a decent chunk better. Getting 2 druids meleeing the whole fight and a priest that melees a decent amount while casting renew, coh, pom, pws is like having an extra 1/4 of a damager. Plus, I have strength of earth sometimes, so even more melee damage. I think next time i spec purely for pve (ie, imp mark, which is the thing that basically pushes me over the edge into 'i can't even remotely pvp without respeccing, might as well just dump everything into useless resto talents') I might get naturalist and obviously ooc, and see how much melee damage i can rack up while still chain casting, mostly because its funny.

The catch: i can't think of any ssc/tk/mh/bt fights where that is useful at all other than Morogrim, ros phase 2 and 3, and maybe part of gorefiend. Almost every boss either moves around too much to want to worry about following, or does a cleave of some sort, or has an aoe that makes it so i don't want to be grouped up with the melee. Tidewalker it'd work fine on, maybe karathress, depending on your strat. leo and lruker have a ww, vashj moves and does the static thing, hydross moves and does the tomb thing. Alar moves a ton and it would pull more fires onto the melee, vr explodes, solarian moves a bunch, kael has flamestrikes and MC'd meleers that i don't want to be close to. Rage I get more mana by staying close to jaina and have to move a bunch anyway. Anatheron i can't reach both tanks from melee range, k'r stomps, azgalor fires, archimond, uh, yeah not going to happen. Naj has splash damage, spurpemus fires and moves, akama i can't possible imagine running oom, gorefiend i could i guess until the first time ghosts are a bit sloppy then i'd have to run away, bloodboil i have to run, RoS p2 and 3 i think i could, mother sharaz silences in melee range (i was pretty mad to find that out, being able to melee for mana on that fight, the only one where i really do run oom, would be amazing), council too much moving and can't reach, and haven't done illidan yet but I'm guessing I'll be out of luck. So, that's an amazing mechanic that is almost completely useless

Brewmaster of WBC
 
User is offline.
Old 03/13/08, 5:32 PM   #529
Kalaghan
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Nathrezim
Originally Posted by Jalhar View Post
And as everyone knows, an oom healer with +2500 to heals heal less than a healer with mana and +2400 to heals. I see how this may change with the 2.4 regen mecanics, but as far as I saw, Sunwell encounters are quite healing intensive, and with the haste buff we'll be able to cast 1-2 more spells / rotation, thus using even more mana.
That'd be great if it were true, but you're going to need a pretty good hardware setup, connection and reflexes to keep up a 5 spell rotation. As has already been noted, to have the same kind of room for lag/error you'd need a little over 400 spell haste, not gonna happen. And adding 2 more spells per rotation just isn't going to happen with the current available itemization. Personally, I only see haste as being useful in scenarios where you have no LB stacks to roll. A good example would be Bloodboil where you're actually letting your LBs expire. The risk of losing a stack with anything less than 250-300 haste just isn't worth the reward to me (that's roughly the point where I feel it becomes plausible to maintain a 5 cast cycle consistently, but you're still at greater risk than with a 4-stack presently).

Edit:
And lairpie, even if the JoW thing didn't pan out that was a really interesting idea and definitely worth bearing in mind as encounters change down the road. I enjoyed the read.

Last edited by Kalaghan : 03/13/08 at 5:42 PM.
 
User is offline.
Old 03/13/08, 6:35 PM   #530
lairpie
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Alterac Mountains
Originally Posted by Kalaghan View Post
Archimonde I stay out of ToL the entire fight anyway (you pop out everytime you need to decurse/run?). Hyjal trash it would be nice I suppose, but I don't really feel it's a necessity (I've never run OOM on the trash as long as I drink pots).
Missed responding to this:

Yes, i shift in and out whenever i need to yes, but i very rarely need to. Some nights, i don't do as well at moving fast, and take a lot of fires, but taking a fire when its not during the fear doesn't matter hardly at all. The fire is completely trivial to heal through for a druid, you just regrowth yourself and it covers almost all of it. Fires during fears when healers are scramlbing to keep the tank up, and there's sometimes multiple people fired very bad. Taking a couple K of fire damage here and there that you can easily hot through, not a big deal. Even more so, i use the battle masters trinket not my eotm because i'm still a bit bitter about the trinket fix, so that's 2k more hp worth of not worrying about fires. (pvp trinket in the other slot)

Taking fires during fears: very bad. But i can stand 20% closer to a fire and not get feared into it than you can, because i'm slow. I'll take less chance to get feared into fires and more chance to screw up a bit and get hit by the fire the rest of the time any day. Plus, if i really need, its easy to cancel it. It doesn't take very many casts in tree form to be worth the mana cost of shifting in. An extra 175 healing for the tank is a nice bonus too.

I'm completely serious, i run right through the fire, then regrowth myself to stay close to the tank if i see a bunch of other healers are running away from him and I'm cut off. Its so easy not to ever ever die to the fires as long as its not during the fears as a druid. The initial tick is for a bunch but it ramps down from there. A bit of our plentiful mana for a regrowth, and maybe a rejuv or lb on ourselves is a pretty good trade to avoid leaving the tank.

Random helpful tip, shift into cheetah form the moment you get the airburst. you can use tears in form, and it lets you be oofsr for quite a long time. a few seconds in the air and a few seconds running back can make for a lot of mana. if you shift to cheetah after you land instead, that shift will keep you inside the fsr for the whole time.

Another one, if you're fast, you can hit a lb on the person getting airbursted, sometimes even on 2 people, before they get bursted. If you watch the grid agro thing and lb someone the second they get it, it'll land before the burst even does, and they'll come back in topped off. If fast enough, you can get a second person as they're flying, before they're too high and out of range.

As to decursing, I just put a mage that's not dumb close to me. Its not worth letting lifebloom fall off the tank to decurse someone when a mage can cancel a fireball and decurse them instead. I'm pretty good at keeping track of who is close to who, especially when we group people strategically, so i know if one of the reliable mages is going to get that person fast enough or not. Plus, feral druids can decurse, there's no GCD after shifting before you can decurse. Usually a feral druid should actually be faster at it than a resto druid. That being said, we've generally found its better to have our feral druids just heal and decurse for archimonde rather than damage. Having a ton of melee is dangerous, and all of our feral druids but one are 5v5 resto vengeful with the vengeful mace, so, they're not short on high sta healing gear, perfect for archimonde. And 4 stacks of lifebloom and rejuv on a tank for archimonde is a ridiculously beautiful thing, even if some of them are gimpy feral lifeblooms. So yeah, we have plenty of decursers, so i don't bother unless there's no one else in position to reach someone. Its not a race to get them decursed, it just has to happen soon enough.

Brewmaster of WBC
 
User is offline.
Old 03/13/08, 7:13 PM   #531
Nogan
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Illidan (EU)
Seeking for many advices

Hello everyone,

I'm new in this forum and very interested by all these posts.
I'm in a French Guild that is running SSC & TK but we don't try Vashj & Kael'Thas yet.

I'm looking for advises in three domains as I want to improve my game skills.
The first domain doesn't concern only druids but it is related somehow.

Healing Assignments
I'm going to be designed as a Raid Heal Leader, therefore I will be the one who tells "who heals who" in the raid.
Right now I see things like this :
- Paladin are good anti-crush heals (Nice MT Heal), Priest good spots healers on the raid & nice on a tank, Shaman awesome raid healers, and druids nice anti-regular damage. (For Raid & Tanks)

Our healers in my guild are : 2 Druids , 3-4 Priests, 1 Shaman, 1-2 Paladin.
How should I assign my healers on the bosses & trash. I don't need a answer for each boss but a few examples would be welcomed.
As you can see, lot of little heals, I'm really hoping the regen of 2.4 might allow druid to be "Pally-like" on MT with healing touch, because sometimes we are lacking pallys which are getting us troubles on Morogrim to anti-crush the MT.

What is the good way to assign people with examples ? (Ex : Pally on crush dmg like on MT Morogrim)
Please tell me if I'm doing a big mistake in my point of view about the healers.

The gear
Here is a link to my Armory : Nogan
How should I think when I want to upgrade my gear ? On which stats should I focus, and to which point ?
If I use the rolling multitank Lifebloom strategy, I go OOM quite fast. And it seems this strategy can't apply on all tanks, seems to do a lot of overheal.

The Healing strategy
I'll just give examples of what I'm doing on the bosses.
Hydross : I heal MT, help on the Add Tanks if necessary and spot heal raid.
Lurker : I HoT the MT et run all over the wood circle to spot heal everyone.
Morogrim : I'm on the MT, spot healing when I can the people in the raid (Or only on AoErs & Add-Tanks)
Karathress : (We do the Hunt > Sham > Priest > Boss Order) I heal the Hunter Tank, spot heal people below 50% and others. Then when the hunter is dead I try to heal the Raid.
Leotheras: Only killed this one once ! I don't really have problems here, doesn't seems to be a healer fight... I just heal MT & other wounded people. Not really a strategy.

A'lar: Not tried yet.
Void Reaver: I heal everyone with some priorities of course. MT , OT"s, CaCs, Raid.
Solarian : I heal the AoErs before they get hit so they are already healed at first damage. Though I think I should heal the tanks.

Something really wrong ?


By the way, please forgive my mistakes in english, it's not my native language, I'm still learning.
 
User is offline.
Old 03/13/08, 7:13 PM   #532
Kamileon
Von Kaiser
 
Kamileon's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Cenarion Circle
Our raid group is traditionally horrible at not standing in things that burn us, and we seem to be pretty incompetent at the Archimonde fight. I'm not in tree, because with 2-4 totally decursers, I'm needed to keep grip off. Also, our mages are pretty terrible at decursing traditionally. The huge huge majority of decursing on Archi ends up being me, and our feral druid that they make into a melee decursebot.

We also get yelled at a lot for doomfire because the majority of us are so bad at it. A lifebloom or 2 keeps me alive through a doomfire, and I don't notice the time spent at all, so I will charge through fire and take the tongue lashing to keep the MT up. It's a pretty viable strat for a resto druid who can shrug off doomfire ticks like that.
 
User is offline.
Old 03/13/08, 8:20 PM   #533
Jalhar
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight (EU)
Originally Posted by Kalaghan View Post
That'd be great if it were true, but you're going to need a pretty good hardware setup, connection and reflexes to keep up a 5 spell rotation. As has already been noted, to have the same kind of room for lag/error you'd need a little over 400 spell haste, not gonna happen. And adding 2 more spells per rotation just isn't going to happen with the current available itemization. Personally, I only see haste as being useful in scenarios where you have no LB stacks to roll. A good example would be Bloodboil where you're actually letting your LBs expire. The risk of losing a stack with anything less than 250-300 haste just isn't worth the reward to me (that's roughly the point where I feel it becomes plausible to maintain a 5 cast cycle consistently, but you're still at greater risk than with a 4-stack presently).
Fact is atm I cannot keep 4 LB stacks on 3 people. (not like I actually play like this, the fights where 3 stacks of LB are useful are pretty rare, actually only Hyjal trash and to some extend BB come to my mind. I often keep 2 full sets of hots on 2 tanks - Illidan p2, council - or 1 full set of hots on MT and hotting random ppl around)

Because of my dodgy latency, I have to refresh LB every 3 GCD. If I try 4, there is a high risk I'll let the lifebloom...bloom. So in 2.4, even with the pretty low amount of spell haste I have, I'll be able to refresh LB every 4 GCD, thus spending a lot more mana. I've tested it on PTRs when we tried Kalecgos, and even with the awful PTR latency, it worked suprisingly fine.

As far as Archimonde is concerned, it's not really a mana intensive fight, and it's actually a pretty short one. With the constant running around, tree aura isn't that useful, and decurse have saved many lives - I find it a lot safer to stay in normal form. I understand the benefits of ToL though (running less fast towards doomfire when feared is fun ^^) so I may give it a try. As we use a 4 corners strategy and as I'm usually the decurser of my corner, I'll have to find a kind mage though
 
User is offline.
Old 03/14/08, 8:06 AM   #534
NinJOu
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Illidan (EU)
Originally Posted by lairpie View Post

Groups
there's about 350 of aura +healing on the 2 prot warriors and the tanking paly, that goes a hell of a long way in boosting healing. On fights where we just have 1 warrior tanking, a lot of the time we'll actually run resto shaman, 2 resto druids, a paly, and a warrior in group1. We basically do that any time there's just 1 tank unless the shaman needs a shadow priest. Having 2 druids in the tank group also frees up more spots in groups getting VT mana for other healers and casters that need the mana a lot more.
wow, i missed something here ??!! Tree aura adds up in a single group ??? It doesnt work like resistance buff ? the highest override the lowest ?
 
User is offline.
Old 03/14/08, 10:27 AM   #535
Valraven
Glass Joe
 
Valraven's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Lothar (EU)
Yes, the Tree auras add up - as they did at the end of classic WoW with the original "tree aura adds 25% of your will to your groups +heal" when 4-5 Trees in a group would lead to an insane +heal buff for everyone.

@Nogan
Imho you should chance some of your gems - +Int and +Spirit won`t help you much with your level of gear. The offhand and the Karazhan prince ring have no stats whatsoever, something I always try to stay away from.

Concerning your healing strategy - Hm I just want to mention that standing right inside Voidreaver together with the melees spamming LB on yourself, the tanks and the melee group is quite amusing - you do not have to move at all and tanks/meeles are never out of range. Of course you need some decent mp5 to do that, but it IS fun. We often had 2 Druids and one Shaman standing inside VR.
 
User is offline.
Old 03/14/08, 10:39 AM   #536
GTtheBard
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Sen'jin
If one of your druids wears the Relic from their Swift Flight Form chain (Idol of the Raven God? Maybe?), then it counts as two separate auras, and placing both Druids in the same group will in fact stack the auras. We tried this on Gruul, and even though I personally didn't think it was such a great idea (of course, I had to give up my Emerald Queen Idol), it can be done.

This can also be done with the LOTP and Boomkin Auras. I don't know the math for it, but I'd imagine that two stacking LOTP auras would be VERY cool for a group of Hunters.
 
User is offline.
Old 03/14/08, 11:06 AM   #537
BOHIC
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Thrall
Originally Posted by GTtheBard View Post
If one of your druids wears the Relic from their Swift Flight Form chain (Idol of the Raven God? Maybe?), then it counts as two separate auras, and placing both Druids in the same group will in fact stack the auras. We tried this on Gruul, and even though I personally didn't think it was such a great idea (of course, I had to give up my Emerald Queen Idol), it can be done.

This can also be done with the LOTP and Boomkin Auras. I don't know the math for it, but I'd imagine that two stacking LOTP auras would be VERY cool for a group of Hunters.
I haven't tested it lately, but about 6 months ago when I got my [Idol of the Raven Goddess], tree aura stacked with or without and LotP/Moonkin aura did NOT stack with or without it. I don't believe that's been changed.
 
User is offline.
Old 03/14/08, 11:14 AM   #538
the_mort
Von Kaiser
 
the_mort's Avatar
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Alleria (EU)
Originally Posted by GTtheBard View Post
If one of your druids wears the Relic from their Swift Flight Form chain (Idol of the Raven God? Maybe?), then it counts as two separate auras
The aura stacks regardless of any trinket.

"Progress just means bad things happen faster." -- Granny Weatherwax
 
User is offline.
Old 03/14/08, 11:24 AM   #539
GTtheBard
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Sen'jin
Originally Posted by BOHIC
I haven't tested it lately, but about 6 months ago when I got my [Idol of the Raven Goddess], tree aura stacked with or without and LotP/Moonkin aura did NOT stack with or without it. I don't believe that's been changed.
Hmm...really? I could've sworn I've tested this a while ago. I'm at work now, but when I get back later I'll try to talk some of my feral friends into grouping with me. I definitely know that if one of your trees wears the [Idol of the Raven Goddess], two auras show up as buffs for the main tank.

Originally Posted by the_mort View Post
The aura stacks regardless of any trinket.
Ah, that's good to know.

I'll test this later, regardless of the replies in here.
 
User is offline.
Old 03/14/08, 1:09 PM   #540
BOHIC
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Thrall
Originally Posted by GTtheBard View Post
Hmm...really? I could've sworn I've tested this a while ago. I'm at work now, but when I get back later I'll try to talk some of my feral friends into grouping with me. I definitely know that if one of your trees wears the [Idol of the Raven Goddess], two auras show up as buffs for the main tank.
Two tree auras show up and both apply whether or not you're wearing the relic. Two auras show up for moonkin and leader of the pack only if you're wearing the relic, and only the stronger applies.
 
User is offline.
Old 03/14/08, 2:16 PM   #541
Kalaghan
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Nathrezim
Originally Posted by Valraven View Post
Concerning your healing strategy - Hm I just want to mention that standing right inside Voidreaver together with the melees spamming LB on yourself, the tanks and the melee group is quite amusing - you do not have to move at all and tanks/meeles are never out of range. Of course you need some decent mp5 to do that, but it IS fun. We often had 2 Druids and one Shaman standing inside VR.
I tried that strat on VR a few times, and tracked the damage I took as well. My personal damage taken was usually in the 100-120k range (going from memories that are a few months old). If I subtracted that off of my total healing done for the fight, then my healing while standing in was worse than it was while I was on the outside dodging orbs. It's only worth standing in with the melee for the pounds if your increased healing done outweighs the increased damage you take (unless of course you were having issues with tanks dying, in which case it might be useful to have a healer who's never out of range). For me, the math just didn't justify it (even though it was a lot of fun).
 
User is offline.
Old 03/14/08, 3:20 PM   #542
grutak
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Zul'Jin
Originally Posted by Kalaghan View Post
I tried that strat on VR a few times, and tracked the damage I took as well. My personal damage taken was usually in the 100-120k range (going from memories that are a few months old). If I subtracted that off of my total healing done for the fight, then my healing while standing in was worse than it was while I was on the outside dodging orbs. It's only worth standing in with the melee for the pounds if your increased healing done outweighs the increased damage you take (unless of course you were having issues with tanks dying, in which case it might be useful to have a healer who's never out of range). For me, the math just didn't justify it (even though it was a lot of fun).
I don't entirely agree. Depending how your raid make up, as a druid, you may have plenty of extra GCD's to use. For example: in my guild, we at most have 1 dps warrior, 1 enhancement shaman and 1 rogue. I don't like to 3xLB tanks for this fight, since the main tank changes so much. Instead, i spam LB on everyone in melee range. We also have a shaman chain healing the melee(he stands in melee too). Pounding is every 15 seconds? with 8 people in range, I'll have at least 1 GCD extra every pound. But with CHeal and my normal latency, that can actually be 3-5 extra GCDs, which usually get used by regrowth/rejuv on whoever VR is attacking, or a LB on our SP's for whenthey SW: Death. Maybe its just personal preference, but I greatly prefer this style over stacking LBs on the tanks and running for my life every few seconds.

But you bring up a point about the math. I'm going to go check my last VR kill and do the same math you did.

Last edited by grutak : 03/14/08 at 3:23 PM. Reason: fixing the smiley in SW death
 
User is offline.
Old 03/14/08, 3:34 PM   #543
Kalaghan
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Nathrezim
Originally Posted by grutak View Post
I don't entirely agree. Depending how your raid make up, as a druid, you may have plenty of extra GCD's to use. For example: in my guild, we at most have 1 dps warrior, 1 enhancement shaman and 1 rogue. I don't like to 3xLB tanks for this fight, since the main tank changes so much. Instead, i spam LB on everyone in melee range. We also have a shaman chain healing the melee(he stands in melee too). Pounding is every 15 seconds? with 8 people in range, I'll have at least 1 GCD extra every pound. But with CHeal and my normal latency, that can actually be 3-5 extra GCDs, which usually get used by regrowth/rejuv on whoever VR is attacking, or a LB on our SP's for whenthey SW: Death. Maybe its just personal preference, but I greatly prefer this style over stacking LBs on the tanks and running for my life every few seconds.

But you bring up a point about the math. I'm going to go check my last VR kill and do the same math you did.
I'm confused. What is it you're disagreeing with me on? I don't think I debated healing priority or style at all which seems to be what your point of contention.

The only thing I noted aside from the math of healing increase minus damage increase is if it's a life-saver. In other words, if there are times your raid struggles to keep melee/tanks up due to too many people run out from orbs. In those instances you could justify your reduced effective healing (meaning healing done minus extra damage taken, as opposed to the traditional definition) by the fact that your heals are more timely (since you're there to save people when no one else is).
 
User is offline.
Old 03/14/08, 4:27 PM   #544
grutak
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Zul'Jin
You're point is that its more efficient for you and your raid for you to heal from range. My point was that while it might be more mana efficient, its not always easier or needed to heal from range. I guess its not really something to disagree on, and I probably shouldn't think after my post-lunch power nap.
 
User is offline.
Old 03/14/08, 4:40 PM   #545
Kalaghan
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Nathrezim
Originally Posted by grutak View Post
You're point is that its more efficient for you and your raid for you to heal from range. My point was that while it might be more mana efficient, its not always easier or needed to heal from range. I guess its not really something to disagree on, and I probably shouldn't think after my post-lunch power nap.
Just to clarify (and sorry if I'm beating a dead horse), my point had nothing to do with efficiencies. All I was addressing was effectiveness. Completely disregarding mana spent, you have two scenarios:
1. You at orb range: Raid takes X damage, you heal for Y. The remaining healing to be done by other healers is K=X-Y
2. You in melee range: Raid takes X+M damage, you heal for Y+N. The remaining healing to be done by other healers is L=(X+M)-(Y+N) = (X-Y)+(M-N) = K + (M-N). Thus, if M > N (which as noted for me it was) then L >K, so your other healers are doing more work because you're staying in for the pounds.

The only counter-argument is if those extra heals (N) come at some sort of opportune time so that they are more important than the rest of the heals (sorta like a hot ticking through a silence effect). Mana efficiency plays absolutely no role in my argument.
 
User is offline.
Old 03/14/08, 4:55 PM   #546
BOHIC
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Thrall
Originally Posted by Kalaghan View Post
Just to clarify (and sorry if I'm beating a dead horse), my point had nothing to do with efficiencies. All I was addressing was effectiveness. Completely disregarding mana spent, you have two scenarios:
1. You at orb range: Raid takes X damage, you heal for Y. The remaining healing to be done by other healers is K=X-Y
2. You in melee range: Raid takes X+M damage, you heal for Y+N. The remaining healing to be done by other healers is L=(X+M)-(Y+N) = (X-Y)+(M-N) = K + (M-N). Thus, if M > N (which as noted for me it was) then L >K, so your other healers are doing more work because you're staying in for the pounds.

The only counter-argument is if those extra heals (N) come at some sort of opportune time so that they are more important than the rest of the heals (sorta like a hot ticking through a silence effect). Mana efficiency plays absolutely no role in my argument.
It's not quite as simple as your equation makes it sound because some portion of your L heals might have been freebies due to chain heals or circles of healing. On progression VR, I found it worth it to be a tree in the MT group and stand in for the poundings as we were apt to lose a tank otherwise. Once he's on farm, play by the math and/or do what you wanna do obviously.
 
User is offline.
Old 03/14/08, 5:01 PM   #547
grutak
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Zul'Jin
Yeah, I get that part. But I wanna swing back around to this: while it might be more effective to heal Y damage, it's not necessarily more efficient(not mana efficient, but work efficient).

Are you and your raid capable of doing Y+N healing? Is it more likely for one of your tanks to die due to healers running from orbs, or is it more likely for your healers to go OOM due to that extra healing?

My use of the word efficient is the total amount of work that the raid does to beat an encounter. I guess I originally thought you were comparing someone running from orbs to someone having to throw maybe 1 extra heal out per 15 seconds. In my book, no running leaves more time to make sure your people get healed, and thus, is more effective.

Last edited by grutak : 03/14/08 at 5:02 PM. Reason: spelling
 
User is offline.
Old 03/14/08, 5:23 PM   #548
Kalaghan
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Nathrezim
Ya, I think we may have just been arguing from different sides of the "exception" case I tried to set out. Sounds like we're both on the same page. And that's a good point about the CoH/chain heals. Although I would argue it's just as likely that your extra healing (N-M) is heals that weren't needed because they created more freebies. So that could really go either way.
 
User is offline.
Old 03/14/08, 9:17 PM   #549
Ribeye
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Malfurion
Now that that ridiculous argument is over....I thought I'd lay out what I do for Black Temple fights. This isn't a guide or anything and I'm sure other druid's do different jobs equal, lesser, or even better than I do but nonetheless, some druid, somewhere, might find this handy. For reference sake, my guild runs with 2 druids and while the other healers are somewhat interchangeable, we both show up to almost every fight.

Najentus: Both druids stand behind the tank with a warlock, spaced out accordingly to avoid splash damaging each other. I roll a 3 target lifebloom between me, the main tank, and the warlock. The other druid does the same. The lock's presence is just to pull any spikes out of the two of us. With 2 sets of LBs on the MT, all other healers are free to heal melee and groups before and after the 8k burst. And in case your wondering, if the lock gets a spike, a melee runs and pulls it out. Letting the LB's drop can be bad.

Supremus: During Phase 1, I apply 3 lifeblooms, 1 Regrowth and a Rejuve on the Main tank from a safe distance while dodging the punch damage. Using a hot timer mod, I keep all 3 of these up for the duration of the phase, swiftmending when neccessary. There are usually 2 other direct heal healers on the MT as well. For phase 2, I rotate between spamming moonfires on the boss for fun and tossing out lifeblooms for anyone who is near me and damaged. Occasionally I'll save someone with a rejuve SM if their situation looks dire. I try to be the first one near the MT when it goes back to Phase 1 for an emergency NS HT if neccessary.

Shade of Akama: I and one other healer cover one side. Easy healing, topping off dps on my side and occasionally running up the stairs to top off a melee. As the fight progresses I start applying LBs to the middle tank to help out the paladins.

Teron Gorefiend: I raid heal for this. Running in, I /follow the MT and apply a rejuve and 3 lbs as we approach the boss, if neccessary I'll SM just before getting to my spot to account for a burst before the other healers get there. Once the fight has begun, healing starts off light. I apply lifeblooms liberally and let them expire. As the fight heats up I shift towards more regrowth rank 8 spamming. Damage is random but predictable and I finish each regrowth with a lifebloom in case they take another spike from a ghost hit as I change targets. As my eyes are moving up and down the list I take any break in damage to drop LBs on the Main Tank. By the Time the boss is at 50 pct, and assuming I haven't been ghosted myself, I pop my own innervate and start spamming rank 8 and rank 10 regrowths full on throughout the raid paying carefull attention to anyone who has the ghost mark. If I have any mana when this fight finishes I wasn't healing hard enough.

BloodBoil: I have done most jobs on this fight, but of late, I have been on main tank/fel target healing assignment. Personally, I think keeping up a bloodboil grp is easier but I do what I'm told! For main tank I fill him up with 3 lbs, rejuve and regrowth and again keep them up by watching my hot timer. I am generally in the third bloodboil group as well, so i try to keep at least 1 lb on myself and keep a carefull eye out for the aggro indicator to light up on a tank switch. Warnings on the switch can be rare for some odd reason but if I am given some warning that a switch will occur I am the first to switch off the MT to the next Tank and start stacking up my hots. For felrage targets I do much the same but occasionally NS HT on a clothie if things look grim. If I happen to get the bloodboil group, I just wait till my group shows the bloodboil buff, then run down that list and apply a lifebloom to each one letting it expire just before adding another. On rare occasion, they will take some damage whislt the buff is ticking and I have to hit a quick regrowth or rejuve/sm to save one. If my group looks taken care of I shift to the FR target or the offtanks and make sure they are topped off.

R.O.S.: For phase 1, I dps! Phase 2, my job is to watch one group, usually the mages. Generally speaking, the group is 4 mages and a paladin, or 3 mages and 1 hunter, and a paladin...either way, the paladin doesnt take damage so I roll a 4 target lifebloom stack on all of them for the entirety of the phase. Deadens often cause their health to spike unexpectedly, and since I can't drop my LBs to save just 1, we usually have one direct heal raid healer just watching for spikes, not on just my group, but the entire raid. TBH, if a clothie dies to deaden its their fault not mine :P For Phase 3, the group shifts a bit and the paladin is replaced with a Shadow Priest. All healers start off on the main tank and about 10 seconds in I shift to once again rotating lifeblooms on 5 targets now. Since theres no way to keep up a 5 target roll (yet,) I simply let them expire. Now, 9 times out of 10, the rogues don't suck and this is plenty healing for the entire phase, but on the rare occasion the fight is longer than expected I shift to spamming regrowth for dear life.

Mother: Surprise, Surprise, I raid heal for this too. I think with the amount of shadow resist I have my healing drops to about +1700. This fight can be so random on mana usage that my healing style changes between just tossing out lifeblooms and letting them burst and spamming rank 8 regrow. As a rule, I avoid the offtanks since we have someone specifically for them but I do heal the main tank if I see one of his healers has been teleported. Anytime there is a lull in raid damage I like to drop proactive lifeblooms on the melee because you never know when a melee port is going to screw them and lately they seem to wear less and less shadow resist. Admittedly, my numbers have never been that great for this fight. For myself, during a teleport, I have 2 macros made. The first one drops form, pops a healthstone if I have one, casts rejuve on me, then swiftmends it. I usually spam click this button while running away when I first get teleported. The second one, in case Swiftmend is down, is much the same with a NS HT instead.

This post is getting long so I'll continue in another later.
 
User is offline.
Old 03/15/08, 3:54 AM   #550
Vayeate
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Dentarg
I have a couple gear slots I don't know what to do with. I went from feral to resto recently putting me at the bottom rung for healing dkp, so I've been taking whatever I can get. Right now all my stuff is decent, however 3 things are bothering me.

I use the kara gloves and legs all with teardrop living rubies in them to jack up my healing because the bonuses are terrible. My guild is 4/5 MH and 4/9 BT, looking at what is readily available in the future for either of those slots basically I'm seeing the gloves from Teron and the leggings of archimonde, however I severely doubt I'll beat the other druids/heals for those items so I'm searching for easier replacements or something I've overlooked.

I started looking at badge rewards and that got me thinking but after comparing stats and overall +healing I don't think the upgrade would be that extreme for the current badge items, and the 2.4 badge items all actually have more healing but a socket short on the pants and gloves, feels like blizzard is playing mind games.

Aside from my legs and gloves I also need belt help. I know spirit is going to dominate more-so next patch then now I got a belt of the long road made, and its got really nice +healing, I think the way I have it gemmed now it kicks out around 98+ healing. What upgrades are there for thise aside from the 2 ZA belts which are avoiding me at all costs.

Thanks.
 
User is offline.
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks > Public Discussion > Class Mechanics > Druids

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[Druid] Gearing Your End ame Tree Machia The Dung Heap 1 11/11/07 11:31 AM
Tree of Life Aura Bug DecimusGarona Public Discussion 26 06/11/07 2:40 PM