Raiding as a Tree - Page 27

trismegistus · 04/08/08, 2:39 AM

Originally Posted by giansm

2.4 PTR Information Patch 2.4 has a lot of exciting and some not-so-exciting changes planned for restoration druids. The three biggest mechanic changes are the lifebloom coefficient nerf, the intellect/spirit changes, and the fact that spell haste will affect the GCD. In addition to this, there is a large amount of new gear available. Since it is still very early in the PTR patch cycle, I don't plan to update the main body of post for a while, although I will periodically add updates to this top section. For those of you that are interested, there is a lively and ongoing discussion later in this thread starting on page 7. Posts that will probably find their way into this page if the PTR changes go live include:

#182 concerning haste and the GCD
#238 concerning the effect of spirit/intellect on consumables, gems, enchants, and trinkets
#275 concerning the effect of spirit/intellect on lootrank weights and gear choice
#304 concerning the lifebloom coefficient nerf

There's also the gear list composed by Norfair in #221.

I repeat, for now the rest of this post has not been updated to reflect the changes on the PTR and probably will not be until it looks like the patch is imminent. Please consult the discussion later in the thread if you are interested in PTR changes, or if you want the short version then look at the posts linked above.

Forgive me for interrupting, but since we are now in 2.4.1, when do you expect to be able to update the first post with all the current and relevant info and numbers, etc.?

Thank you for this contribution, I greatly enjoy using it to help me play the game and enjoy it better.

Bigtoy · 04/08/08, 1:57 PM

Half baked idea #2: A return to Moonglade 2 set for max avoidance fights (RoS, perhaps Archimonde)
Refresher: Your Rejuvenation spell grants 35 dodge rating (1.85%) [Moonglade Handwraps]

Has anyone gemmed/updated two pieces? It would cost me roughly 12-14 on stam/int/spi and -70 (ouch) to healing over my current T5 in gloves/shoulders. So it's definitely not an everyday plan. But has anyone found it useful for those specific fights? Is there any confirmation of whether or not the dodge buff stacks?

Pippo · 04/08/08, 4:14 PM

raiding as a tree... raiding witouth a tree... where the importance ? this post should debate first of the utility of the resto druids in the hl pve guild first.

there is one poor slot gived to the resto druid, and 4 to the chaman, this is totally unbalanced. the utility of the resto druid is become lower and lower since the begin of burning crusade. the design of the boss and particulary in sunwell has kick the druid of hl pve. the hot are partially useless exept in very very rare encounter, now the life of the raid and mainly of the main tank is moving up and down too fast to give an importance to our poor hot.

Funboy · 04/08/08, 5:14 PM

Originally Posted by Kamileon

I am having a really hard time feeling relevant in raids recently. It used to be fine, especially when we were working on new content, but later on in BT and in Sunwell/Sunwell Trash I feel like I'm just the token tree being brought along, because such an extremely small portion of my healing is actually translating into effective healing.

With a raid comp of 2 Resto Shaman, 3 Holy Pallies, and a CoH priest, I am finding that HoTs get stomped on, and Regrowth is too slow to not be overheal by the time it lands. Since we've gotten more T6 level gear (Though we've only killed Archi 3x and Illidan twice) raid damage is healed up extraordinarily fast, and people are racing each other to heal people who have taken damage. Where HoTing the tanks used to contribute a large amount of effective healing, now our tanks are still taking constant direct heals leaving HoTs little room to tick.

Looking at recount numbers, my attempts to raid heal with Regrowth are about 70-80% overheal. The HoT gets some use, but accounts to very little effective healing.

I've spoken to my healing lead about what I can do more effectively in our raids, and been told to "just HoT the tanks and let the rest of us deal with the damage." Yet, with people still also healing the MT, HoTs aren't going to great use there, and with just a single druid's HoTs, direct healers cannot NOT heal the tanks, either.

It's making it frustrating to raid, because I don't feel like a contributor, just the token tree that let's the big kids do the real healing, and I guess while it's A-OK with the healing lead that I HoT up the tanks and nothing else, it's not okay with me on a personal level to feel like I'm not "pulling my weight" so to speak.

We've only been wiping to Kalecgos since 2.4 hit, so I could only point to a WWS of that with my attempts to Regrowth more -- beyond that my tactic is to roll LB/Rejuv on anyone tanking, and chuck Lifeblooms on the raid during my free time and hope it matters.

I guess I'm looking for any ideas on how to contribute more in a fast-raid-healing heavy composition as a single tree in the tank group. I don't have any haste gear to try out, it all went to our shaman.

I don't want to just assume that this is a situation where effective healing meters are completely meaningless and I should assure myself on a philosophical level that I am properly contributing to the raid and not using objective measures to back that up, or that being a Tree is meaningless and I'm just stuck with this situation.

Should I continue primarily HoTing tanks and ignore effective healing metrics? Roll HoTs on tanks, and Regrowth raid members wherever I can (and SM where applicable) and ignore both effective and overhealing metrics? If I do that, what should I be looking at to edify myself and try to improve?
Should I just stack spirit and turn into a tank buffbot if my heals themselves aren't going to be significant? Is there something else I can try?
If there are good ideas for larger strategy changes for the healing team as a whole I will make the suggestions, but I think they are happy with the status quo, and suggestions are unlikely to get much traction. Thus, I'd like to find something I can change about how I heal first.

3 tanks? 3 stacks of lifebloom on trash. Not all will tick but you do generate high numbers. You just don't get the flashy big heals like other classes do. Playing a resto druid is like playing a fury warrior, lots of little numbers that add up nicely. As GM and RL I've purposely built our raid setups around bringing only 1-2 holy paladins and 2 resto druids. Our paladins are always last on meters and bitch about druids.

If you are trying to heal the raid you will fail. Priests and Shaman are both a ton better at it so just stick to the tanks.

Funboy · 04/08/08, 5:17 PM

Originally Posted by Xureal

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but can't really think of anywhere else

I'm considering going back to my druid for a little raiding and was wondering about how latency will affect my ability to heal with lifebloom. I used to raid on the druid at 60, back then the style of healing was a little different than it is now. Pretty much everything changed for me since then, well, everything besides my latency. I'm unfortunately running with ping ranging from 350ms, which I consider good, to around 500ms, when, for whatever reason my connection to WoW messes up.

What I wanted to ask is, are there any druids that heal raids, who play from Australia or other places of high latency ? How many tanks can you keep a rolling bloom on and how does healing with a druid look under such conditions ? I know that I could calculate the delay I would get from the latency and such, but honestly I would prefer someone with first hand experience to voice his opinion.

Since I will be probably leveling a new character anyway I might go with a shaman in the end, should it turn out that having that few more fractions of a second delay would be much more of a hindrance as a HoT spamming druid rather than a chain-healing shaman.

The global cooldown is client side so as long as your latency doesn't fluctuate much it won't be an issue.

Funboy · 04/08/08, 5:21 PM

I think I innervate about twice a night and have used maybe 3 mana pots in raids since 2.4 came out. Anyone else have similar numbers? Our mana regen is truly ridiculous now.

Teleute · 04/08/08, 5:28 PM

Pippo -

What? Am I missing something? My guild is not terribly progressed - we're downing VR regularly and moving into SSC - but I do major healing on the main tank(s) and am always top of the healing on WWS. My hots keep a tank from taking huge spike damage that would otherwise squash them flat. I guess you're right that I'm not so great at keeping the squishies up, but I find my hots to be an incredibly powerful tool for tank healing. Again, we're not very far in progression, but from what I've read they don't become any less useful. Maybe you're having a problem with raid setup or healing assignments?

Also, YES GOD the mana regen. It's amazing since 2.4, my mana bar hardly budges even when chain-casting. I've started farming gold so I can regem and re-enchant my gear for straight +healing, because the mana points are wasted. (I know this is something that was recommended even before the patch, but the ZA fights were killing my mana supply. Now I have no such concerns. Yay patch!)

zedwards · 04/08/08, 6:43 PM

Originally Posted by Funboy

I think I innervate about twice a night and have used maybe 3 mana pots in raids since 2.4 came out. Anyone else have similar numbers? Our mana regen is truly ridiculous now.

Your observation is correct. I noticed it when and entire raid and I rarely ever use my stack of mana biscuits. For most healers, this has been the case though I think druids who tank heal use less mana than other healers. It feels someone OP but is nice to get through those long fights.

jasonf · 04/09/08, 4:40 AM

Originally Posted by Pippo

raiding as a tree... raiding witouth a tree... where the importance ? this post should debate first of the utility of the resto druids in the hl pve guild first.

there is one poor slot gived to the resto druid, and 4 to the chaman, this is totally unbalanced. the utility of the resto druid is become lower and lower since the begin of burning crusade. the design of the boss and particulary in sunwell has kick the druid of hl pve. the hot are partially useless exept in very very rare encounter, now the life of the raid and mainly of the main tank is moving up and down too fast to give an importance to our poor hot.

This is totally offtopic and i should probably ignore your post but i have to say this, tree druids are absolutely needed in Sunwell and my guilds progress is hurt alot by not having any good and active resto druid at the moment. Take Brutallus as an example and how 2 trees reduce the chance of tank death during stomp to practically zero.

Pippo · 04/09/08, 5:25 AM

Originally Posted by jasonf

This is totally offtopic and i should probably ignore your post but i have to say this, tree druids are absolutely needed in Sunwell and my guilds progress is hurt alot by not having any good and active resto druid at the moment. Take Brutallus as an example and how 2 trees reduce the chance of tank death during stomp to practically zero.

We have kick one of our two resto druids on brutallus because his impact was minimal. it's all the concept of healing over time who is to work.
when your tank have 24k hp, when the life of the tank do a things like "100 > 40 > 80 > 100 >30 > 100" in like mhh 3sec of time ? tell me what a damn hot tick at 900heal change the fight ? nothing

The resto druid was usefull at the begin of bc when we was all unstuff, because the lifebloom was the only healing who can tick every second but now with stuff and beginning of haste 90% of the lifebloom and hot in general is tottaly overhealed by the paladin on main tank.

I say it, look the other class.

- The shaman, best raid healer (chain heal) best "buff" bring to the raid dps (bloodlust) => healing the raid
- The paladin, best buff of the game (blessing), 3 slot reserved in raid and good single healer even if lack of mana => healing the tank
- The priest, sta and spi buff, goof buff, best group heal, fast cast (coh) best preventive heal (shield) best potential of effefctive healing => hybrid heal tank/raid
- The resto druid. no usefull buff (the feral can motw too np), only healing over time heal, no direct heal (i dont call regrowth a direct heal, for me a heal who heal 3500 in 2sec cast compared to the other class is a joke). The HoT are major in overheal if the other class heal dont suck

The time is not for hot heal, when the tank been hit to 9k, a lifebloom at 900 is damn useless. the time today is to fast direct heal and we are the only class who don't have one.

Yeah, maybe i am offtopic, but maybe not, when you can see that the sham and paladin is about to represent 80% of the high end pve healing roster guild i think there is a little problem. The resto druid MUST be changed, if not the roster heal in a few month will looks like something like : 3paladin 4 shaman, 1 priest.

I really think the utility of the resto druid should have a own topic because i'ts a growing problem for high pve druids.

Benita · 04/09/08, 9:21 AM

Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

Check the healing tab, Pippo. If you really think druids are bad healers, you have a great misperception of the strengths and weaknesses of healers or your guild is not using the druid healers for the proper jobs.
All healers on those WWS have more or less the same level of gear and i wouldn't state that any one of them is vastly more skilled than others.

Pippo · 04/09/08, 9:36 AM

mine wws

you seems using a lot much of lifebloom. what was your exactly job ? mine was focus on main tank and eventually help on burns when i can

Jalhar · 04/09/08, 10:42 AM

If there is only one resto druid job on Brutallus, his main focus should be burn healing, 1 set of hots is indeed not that powerful when the tank is spammed by 2 holy palas, 1 2 holy priests and 1 2 resto shammies. During the last 5 seconds of the burn, the resto druid will need help tho.
For our kill, we had everyone but me spamming heals on the current tank - shammies spamming chain heal ofc to heal the soakers - I kept burn players up with the help of one holy priest for the last ticks, and shadow priests keep soaking groups up with VE.

If you take 2 resto druids, they should be both able to keep LBx3 on MT and heal burn w/o the need of another healer.

Ribeye · 04/09/08, 12:34 PM

Pippo...

We see this time and again everytime new content spills out and someone comes around assuming druids suck because they aren't being utilized correctly in raids. That is the key though. Every fight has an aspect where Resto Druids and Hot healing really shine and if you or your raid leader are not actively seeking out these roles, then you will forever feel like an extra cog in a lackluster machine.

Stop approaching the game from your own sense of weakness. If you are as well geared as any Sunwell Druid should be, then the only thing limiting your ability to add to your raid is your own lack of skill. Heal harder, faster, and smarter. Your ability to play the game far outshines any restrictions your class might have.

Clockwise · 04/09/08, 2:09 PM

Originally Posted by Ribeye

Pippo...

We see this time and again everytime new content spills out and someone comes around assuming druids suck because they aren't being utilized correctly in raids. That is the key though. Every fight has an aspect where Resto Druids and Hot healing really shine and if you or your raid leader are not actively seeking out these roles, then you will forever feel like an extra cog in a lackluster machine.

Stop approaching the game from your own sense of weakness. If you are as well geared as any Sunwell Druid should be, then the only thing limiting your ability to add to your raid is your own lack of skill. Heal harder, faster, and smarter. Your ability to play the game far outshines any restrictions your class might have.

Not to mention that your regen allows you to chain cast whatever spells you want, forever, with no negative consequences. If you can't keep up bloomx3 and rejuve on a MT while raid healing with regrowth or spot blooms when appropriate, then I don't know what else to tell you.

Fieryeel · 04/09/08, 4:11 PM

So guys. I have been speaking to my GM about a possible change of my role within raids.

Now, for some reason, no one in the entire guild, or just about anyone in the realm knew that the ToL aura affected every raid healer. Everyone simply assumed it only increased my heals within the party.

Now that I have confirmed that it helps every single raid healer, I have repeatedly requested to be placed in tank party at all times. Not that I wasn't often in tank's party, but just that it wasn't as important as it appears now.

Currently I am also going far more heavily into spirit gear, and I now use [Idol of the Raven Goddess] which adds +44 healing to all raid healers.

My gear isn't too heavy on spirit yet though, and fully raid buffed, I have about 600+ spirit, along with that idol, that effectively means I have giving +200 healing to each healer for healing the tanks.

Does this seem like a good benefit, or is it completely negligible? Understand that my guild is currently only up to Leo.

grutak · 04/09/08, 4:54 PM

It can be very helpful, but it depends on the fight and the healers. It could be helpful for fights like Tidewalker, where the MT is taking extreme amounts of damage. Fathom Lord, the shaman tank, could also be helped by it. I would probably say that with any 2 main tank fight, you could stack the group for Lock, Paladin, Tree Druid.

Also, any time you are light on healing(need 8 but have 7), you could apply the aura just to give your self some breathing room.

Sheshonk · 04/09/08, 5:04 PM

Originally Posted by Fieryeel

So guys. I have been speaking to my GM about a possible change of my role within raids.

Now, for some reason, no one in the entire guild, or just about anyone in the realm knew that the ToL aura affected every raid healer. Everyone simply assumed it only increased my heals within the party.

Now that I have confirmed that it helps every single raid healer, I have repeatedly requested to be placed in tank party at all times. Not that I wasn't often in tank's party, but just that it wasn't as important as it appears now.

Currently I am also going far more heavily into spirit gear, and I now use [Idol of the Raven Goddess] which adds +44 healing to all raid healers.

My gear isn't too heavy on spirit yet though, and fully raid buffed, I have about 600+ spirit, along with that idol, that effectively means I have giving +200 healing to each healer for healing the tanks.

Does this seem like a good benefit, or is it completely negligible? Understand that my guild is currently only up to Leo.

I do not recommend putting any effort into beefing up your ToL aura. In a best case scenario, sure you are adding additional +heal to the entire heal roster, but most the time you are only adding +heal to the tank healers (3-4 healers). Stacking spirit gear comes at the sacerfice of your own +heal. Look at how +Heal lines up to spirit...

22heal vs 10spirit from epic gems.
25% ToL aura of 10 spirit = 2.5 healing.
22 / 2.5 = 8.8

What this means is you need 9 healers on the tank to give a net same amount of +heal, you will almost never get into that situation. But its not just that, because you need to take into account +heal coefficient. Most tank healers have less than 100% heal coefficient, not to mention at times they are down ranking which further lowers the heal coefficient. Meanwhile, druid's triple stack lifebloom has a coefficient of over 200%. So, lets model that in...

(22 * 200%) / (2.5 * 80%)
44 / 2 = 22

22 Healers on the tank to put out the same healing. True, this is about the worst case scenario to compare ToL aura, but even in a best case scenario (modeled above) its still bad.

Now, with that being said, stacking spirit performs an additonal function. It gives you mana regen, and if you actually need mana regen go for it. Personally, I cannot spend my mana fast enough since 2.4. With the proper use of consumables I can't see anyone running into mana issues, its much easier to use consumables to supplement mana regen than +heal.

Melador · 04/09/08, 5:09 PM

Originally Posted by Ribeye

Anyways, those of you that have seen some sunwell, what kind of healing jobs are you getting? I'm interested in the best roll for a Tree on Fellmyst?

Pretty typical stuff, I think. Kalecgos is pretty much keeping LB/Rejuv up on the tank that I'm with, hotting up a the next tank before the taunt, keeping an eye on cleanses, and throwing random lifeblooms around when I'm not in the demon world.

Brut is obviously healing burns (just the first phase 3/4 of it for me, then a pally takes over spamming heals on them and I transition to the next burn). Whenever possible keep hots up on the tank, though I typically favor rejuv to LB for swiftmend-during-stomp purposes if my hands are full with 2-3 burn victims.

The NDA isn't lifed on Felmyst, but I'll sort of vaguely say that I do a lot of random non-rolling raid LBs, be ready to swiftmend any tank debuffs, and make sure to roll LBs on anyone that might be tanking any (hypothetical) adds. I'm also typically far enough from the magegasm that I make a pretty good spotter (though I did blow the call and wipe the raid last night, gah). Hopefully that's intelligible to those that have done the fight but unhelpfully vague to those that haven't.

Pippo: Yes, Chain Heal is ridiculously overpowered for a ton of fights, but I definitely don't find myself feeling particularly useless. Druids remain the best healers for steady incoming damage and emergency healing. We're not great raidhealers, but if the damage is steady and not too significant, non-rolled LBs can do a great job. As others have said, our real asset is our efficiency. I innervate myself once a fight, sometimes, and probably not even that if it's a fight where I can stay in treeform, and I'm definitely competitive in the meters. I think I used 3 super mana pots in our 3-boss Sunwell clear last night, and that wasn't because I was slacking (I was casting right up against the GDC constantly), it's just how efficient we are.

I'm at the point where I'm typically using full haste gear (221) most of the time now just so I'm more nimble. I don't lose much healing and my mana regen is pretty much fine, especially if I can use my innervate on myself (which always fills me back up to full mana). [Wushoolay's Charm of Nature] is totally badass too. Throwing even cheaper Regrowths around the raid at under the GDC is pretty awesome if/when things get hairy.

lairpie · 04/09/08, 5:51 PM

Most people have found that using the [Idol of the Emerald Queen] and gearing and gemming predominantly in favor of their own healing output, while still keeping in mind their aura's boost to both themselves and anyone healing their party to be the best plan. I generally figure that enough people, including myself, are healing my party to make the aura value of 10 spirit roughly equal to 10 healing.

The actual aura of tree form's usefulness is definitely one of those things where you get back what you put in. Our guild has had 2 resto druids in nearly every raid since BC started. Initially we had our other resto druid plan for being in the tank group and to view spirit as both regen and aura boost, where as I counted it only for regen. Around 1/2 way through t5 content all our locks wanted to be destro, ie no imps out, so I dumped myself into the tank group, even though my aura wasn't as good as our other tree's. (Yes it stacks) We've found that in most cases the ~350 extra healing on the tanks combined with hots ticking constantly away increased the chances of the tanks always being topped off and not dying at least as often as the extra stamina would have. Really, tanks dying through anything blood pact, or more healing or such could have stopped is almost a non issue with 2 druids worth of hots and a renew or two regardless of group makeup, so the very substantial healing boost from ~350 healing is about the best thing you can get from those spots in the group.

Other druids that had never geared for much spirit in the first place would obviously have weaker auras, and from that, never see a large difference in the first place. How powerful the aura is in a given fight varies greatly based on what portion of the raid's healing is going into your group. Most druid's have found that their personal healing output was increased by so much from using the lifebloom idol, that it outweighed using [Idol of the Raven Goddess]. How to balance your spirit based aura, your own mana regen, and your own healing output is pretty much the crux of druid gearing. Personally, while I'm always in the tank group, I'm also always the person doing the most healing on my group in the first place unless its a completely single tank fight. For anything with 2 or more tanks its bordering on impossible for someone to be putting more healing into my group than I am, so gimping my own healing in favor of the aura is silly. The only people that can really ever do more healing than a druid on any BC fight (until its just ezmode anyway) are coh priests and shaman. Neither of those are used very often as methods of healing people in my group in the first place, so they're irrelevant.

So the most common question that comes out of that is how to socket gear. The short answer is one you're not running oom, stack all the +healing you can. One big problem with socketing for spirit is that the aura is usually the least useful in fights where the regen from spirit is most useful. If all of the damage for the fight is coming in on set people tanking that can be in your group, the effectiveness of the aura is great. The catch is, those fights are the ones where you need more mana the least. If all the damage is coming in onto your group, you're not exactly going to be throwing out raid healing with regrowth to use a lot of mana. The long answer is that for a given fight, look in WWS to see how much healing people, including yourself, are doing on your group. Figure out how much you putting an 8 spirit gem in your gear would increase their healing. Then figure out how much putting a 16 healing gem in there would do. Whichever does more is the right choice, the catch being that its different for every fight. If you have all the gear in the world, you can choose items based on different fights. For instance the cloth helm of gorefiend is definitely better for some fights than a t6 helm. With all the gear in the world I'd have one of each, but we don't have the BT gems to spare and my slightly less than ideal t6 helm with BT gems is probably still better than the gorefiend one with blue quality gems. You'll have to decide for yourself.

• giansm · 04/09/08, 5:51 PM

Originally Posted by trismegistus

Forgive me for interrupting, but since we are now in 2.4.1, when do you expect to be able to update the first post with all the current and relevant info and numbers, etc.?

Thank you for this contribution, I greatly enjoy using it to help me play the game and enjoy it better.

Sorry, I've been busier than normal at work recently. There's a lot of work that needs to be done on the front post as you probably know (mostly spirit and innervate numbers, especially those for non-druid classes, and it needs a discussion about haste). Until that's done the linked posts will be all there is. If you look at them, please read them with the understanding that I believe the assumption regarding latency in #182 is wrong (based on testing later in the thread, but i'm not completely sure). Post #304 is no longer relevant since it didn't happen. #238 and #275 should still be completely accurate.

ya$ub · 04/10/08, 3:34 AM

Originally Posted by Benita

Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

Check the healing tab, Pippo. If you really think druids are bad healers, you have a great misperception of the strengths and weaknesses of healers or your guild is not using the druid healers for the proper jobs.
All healers on those WWS have more or less the same level of gear and i wouldn't state that any one of them is vastly more skilled than others.

You are pretty good and picking up more than your share of slack. I wouldn't discount the importance of skill here.

How do you target people to lifebloom them on Brutallus? I don't understand how you get significantly more lifebloom ticks then I do when I keep lifebloom up on the tank, focus whoever is getting burned, and use Grid/Clique to heal the next person with burn.

cha22y · 04/10/08, 5:44 AM

Firstly I want to say thank you very much for the time and effort you have put into this thread. I have been a casual viewer of EJ for some time and have been hoping to find a thread on the haste bonus implications for a resto druid.

So far I have been passing on all the spell haste loot from BT due to its lack of spirit (we have some happy shamans), but I am worried I am being shortsighted. generally I havent been impressed by loot from BT for us, Hyjal seems much more druid friendly.

If there is a post on this I have missed can somebody point me to it? I have searched but maybe I am just being a little blind

Edghar · 04/10/08, 12:05 PM

Personally, I'm collecting haste gear when I can as an alternative gear set. You'll really want to build a couple sets of gear (maybe more) to adjust for different fights. Definitely use haste gear on trash or shorter fights when mana regen isn't a problem.

Tiranar · 04/10/08, 1:22 PM

I have recently acquired 2 new resto Druid recruits. We typically have no raiding resto's as the player pool on my server is relatively low. I wanted to submit our 4/8 Hyjal and 4/1 Black Temple WWS' for your review. Since I am raid leader, I want to make sure I am utilizing my Druids in the most efficient way possible. Thank you in advance for your help. If I am in the wrong thread, I apologize.

4/8 Hyjal Wow Web Stats

4/1 Black Temple Wow Web Stats