I believe Kasma may be saying that he shifts out, casts Nature's Swiftness, and that's it, no Healing Touch. It's been a while, but I seem to recall having had the same sort of problem sometimes.
As far as I know, that macro only works instantly if you stand still. If you are moving, you have to press it twice. I myself have a slightly different macro, but also needs to be pressed two times. I just spam the button to be sure it will go off.
Regarding the lifebloom/aggro thing, I've been confidently told by some of my resto druids that the bloom of lifebloom has no aggro component. Since I had no evidence either way I changed topics. A thread search turned up nothing, so has anyone definitively tested where the aggro, if it exists, goes on the various parts of the lifebloom spell?
Hello all! Well our server(Detheroc) finally unlocoked the alchemy lab today!! Free epic gems for all! LOL. Well i got to thinking about healing and spirit and which way to go or what to stack more! I have done lots of research on it but I am still at a loss. I am always in the MT group and usually only healing him and maybe throwing a few LBs out where needed.Our guild has all of ssc on farm, tk besides Kael, 4/5 mh 3/9 in bt down. I made a post on our guilds forums to see what my guildes think Here. I think its members only so ill paste what i wrote there. Thanks in advance for any and all help or advice!
First, here are my base stats, no buffs besides my alchemy stone!
2072+Healing
593 Spirit
660/233 mp5
47 Haste
8352 HP
9365 mana
Those stats are after i upgraded all of my gems to epic gems this morning. After i did this i started thinking, should i go for all +healing and lay off the spirit some, or should i continue to stack spirit for the rest of the healers. I mean all healers get 25% more healing on whoever is in my group, which is usually epi yig cav or whoever the MT is. With my spirit now, all unbuffed, yall healers get 148.25 more plus healing if i did my math right! That is my team player makeup.
Now, this is the real question, should i keep doing what im doing and be a tree tool(lol) to help everyone else out? Or should i go all +22 healing gems, ignoring socket bonuses and whatnot(besides a meta when i get one again). Right now, just from gems, i have:
231 +healing
50 Spirit
5+ Intellect (just for the socket bonus on t6 chest).
If i went all straight +22 healing gems it would be something like this from straight gems:
+352 Healing.
So i can grab another 121 + healing at the loss of 50 spirit(which is only 12.5 Healing for others) along with some mp5. I wouldnt loose all of my socket bonuses, some of which are + healing or spirit so these numbers maybe a little bit off.
Any suggestions, ideas, comments? Help out the old tree hugger, for the guild!
Ps. Heres a link to my armory if you would like to suggest any upgrades or anything like that. Varthan of Detheroc.
It looks like the new 11 healing 5 spirit gems are showing up but my plus healing is right on!
If i posted this in the wrong spot let me know so i can change it over! Thanks again
Regarding the lifebloom/aggro thing, I've been confidently told by some of my resto druids that the bloom of lifebloom has no aggro component. Since I had no evidence either way I changed topics. A thread search turned up nothing, so has anyone definitively tested where the aggro, if it exists, goes on the various parts of the lifebloom spell?
They cleaned up a few things, namely removing the clumsiness of having to spend points in the terrible tier 2 talents. This is almost word for word what a huge number of druids have been asking for essentially forever. Makes it so your first points can be 2/2 imp mark, 3/3 focus, 3/3 nat. shifter, 3/3 subtlety, 1/1 OoC, 2/2 Master shifter, 3/3 intensity, 3/3 imp rejuv. Currently it takes 5, 5, 3, 5, 1, 0, 3, 3 = 25 points to get all those, and you get the 4% healing from master shifter on top of that.
I wonder what nourish is. Don't confuse it with flourish, the 1/2 CoH 1/2 Regrowth 51 point talent. Obviously Nourish is the new fun ability of WOTLK. As living spark ups its crit chance by 15%, it has to be a heal of some sort. Its also listed explicitly in the ToL description where as regrowth is implicitly included in the hots part, so probably some sort of smallish direct heal not a partial direct heal partial hot. I'm kind of hoping for slightly weaker flash heal.
Also, druids get an effect on crits similar to the [Warp-Scarab Brooch]. With ~65% crit on regrowth from imp regrowth and int, ~25% crit on swiftmend and whatever nourish is we should be critting a lot even without crit on our gear. I can't really see wanting to ever itemize for crit, but at least it won't be a complete waste.
It will also be nice having my 2t3 bonus back (Replenish). Until they buffed lifebloom to the point where I wasn't using rejuv as much, I was never giving that up. The raid damage returns on that were pretty amazing and with the bracers still being pretty good at 70, it basically only took using 1 gimpy item to keep it. Having it as a talent will be amazing. For anyone that didn't do nax, the [Dreamwalker Wristguards] bonus procced roughly once per cast and also had one of the best animations in the game that they took away from rogue's detect trap ability (swirly ball!).
Flourish seems like a nice way to lower the somewhat over powered nature of chain heal currently. I don't think anyone will argue that shaman aren't a bit overly useful in a ton of fights. Every other class with their degree of buffing power gives stuff up to get it and be balanced. But yeah, I think it seems like some florishes might ease the demand for brain heal spam a bit.
And last, but certainly not least. Tree aura out, Bark's Blessing in! It essentially just makes the tree aura apply to anyone you heal for 8 seconds instead of applying to your party. That frees up one of the dumbest constraints on raids using a resto druid that to make best use of them they had to be in the tank group. Also, i wonder if the talent to increase bark's blessing by 5% means like make it 20% of your spirit, or multiply the +healing it gives by 1.05. Obviously hoping for the former.
Nourish- "Heals a friendly target for 1550 to 1800. Heals for an additional 387.5 to 450 if Rejuvenation is on the target."
Sounds like exactly what you described - a flash heal. Take a look at Replenish in conjunction with Flourish. Regarding the low-tier talent rearrangement, the only thing that seems out of place is the one point you'll have to put in either Naturalist or OOC.
Please make a new thread if you want to talk about WOTLK stuff, I think it could easily get carried away and drown out useful TBC discussion in here. Right now the WOTLK stuff is way too preliminary to theorycraft except in the most basic sense.
edit: I'm working on an overhaul of the first post, removing some out of date things and updating the references to Innervate to reflect the new reality that we can easily become Spirit-capped for Innervate (i.e. get into a situation where more spirit has zero benefit for innervate due to mana pool size). I think I will revise the haste numbers upwards since nobody has said they feel the 250 mark is too high, and a few people have expressed that "180-200" is too low. Also, I think I'd like to include some math on maximum single target healing for the situations where you want to do that. They don't come up often but when they do, it could help to know what to do. I'm thinking about running the mana and HPS numbers for: HT spam, Regrowth spam, HT spam + Lifebloom, and Regrowth spam + Lifebloom.
If anyone has any suggestions regarding first post updates then let me know, especially if you think some part of it is inaccurate or a bad suggestion. There are probably a few of those lying around since some of the wording hasn't been updated since two major patches ago and I may not have caught them.
Yeah, I'll make a new thread after lunch about wotlk stuff if no one else does first.
I'd add a link to resto calc (RestoCalc | Healer LFG) as well in the first post. Maybe to other druid blogs like resto4life.
One thing to note on me getting OoC, for druids casting instant spells does not interrupt your swing timer. It used to, it hasn't for a patch or two. It takes about 10 seconds to go test this if you don't believe me. Any fight where you can melee safely, you should absolutely be doing so. Your ~100 dps doesn't count for too much, but if you ask a dps class if they'd take 100 extra dps for 0 loss of anything, I don't think you'd find too many turning it down. Furthermore, ooc procs save a decent chunk of mana if you get lucky and it procs right before a regrowth and JoW takes druids from not being too worried about mana to busting at the seems with mana. Anyone with JoW routinely up (which any guild with a ret paly should have) that is meleeing is gaining a very substantial chunk of extra mana regen. That being said, there aren't too many fights where you can actually safely melee. This also works for moonkin. If they're not threat capped, standing in melee range and macroing it such that they get a swing or two in each time they refresh moonfire and insect swarm is a decent chunk of extra mana. They obviously don't really have points to burn on OoC though, where resto druids easily do.
I claim to be no expert with ToL healing since I play a priest and am currently trying to wrap my head around our itemization at this point in time, so I am looking to you guys for some help.
There is currently a druid in my guild The World of Warcraft Armory who uses the battlemasters trinket in EVERY single boss encounter in the game. He claims to have no regen issues so I can see he would not use something like Tome or Bangle; but why not use something like Essence of the Martyr? I understand that static plus healing is very good for druids and since they took your nifty trick with rolling lifeblooms that are trinketed, use +heal trinkets are no longer as good as they once were.
I can see how he might use the battlemaster trinket over essence in sunwell due to the amount of raid damage that is being dealt. But as far as I am concerned, even a monkey can see that a 2 minute CD 297 +healing > 4 static plus healing and a 1750 "heal" when it comes to nearly every other fight in the game. Any light that you guys could shine on this topic for me would be greatly appreciated.
edit: I'm working on an overhaul of the first post, removing some out of date things and updating the references to Innervate to reflect the new reality that we can easily become Spirit-capped for Innervate (i.e. get into a situation where more spirit has zero benefit for innervate due to mana pool size). I think I will revise the haste numbers upwards since nobody has said they feel the 250 mark is too high, and a few people have expressed that "180-200" is too low. Also, I think I'd like to include some math on maximum single target healing for the situations where you want to do that. They don't come up often but when they do, it could help to know what to do. I'm thinking about running the mana and HPS numbers for: HT spam, Regrowth spam, HT spam + Lifebloom, and Regrowth spam + Lifebloom.
While you're at it, could you (or someone else) tell me what the coefficients for our spells are?
HT and rejuv are easy, I guess (1/1.2 talented and 0.8), but I'm having a hard time figuring out the correct values for Regrowth and Lifebloom (single/stack, HoT part, direct part, etc.)...
I wasn't able to find any Information about these (except some vague mention of a change to Lifebloom on wowwiki, but... yeah.)
While you're at it, could you (or someone else) tell me what the coefficients for our spells are?
HT and rejuv are easy, I guess (1/1.2 talented and 0.8), but I'm having a hard time figuring out the correct values for Regrowth and Lifebloom (single/stack, HoT part, direct part, etc.)...
I wasn't able to find any Information about these (except some vague mention of a change to Lifebloom on wowwiki, but... yeah.)
Sheshonk posted coefficients back in post #899 (around page 35). No one seemed to question the coefficients, and from a quick glance they seemed right to me.
And as for EotM vs. Battlmaster. Yes, EotM is clearly the better choice from a strict healing perspective. However, to be perfectly honest I'm about as bad as they come for using my EotM, so if he's anything like me the difference is probably marginal. I tend to stay away from on proc +heal effects too, simply because I don't feel like brief increases in HOT tics are likely to make a difference at the end of the fight. There are exceptions to this of course (first 2 or last 2 in a portal on Kalecgos comes to mind), and even ignoring those exceptions, like you said, 4heal vs 300 every 2 minutes is a bit too lopsided to question. Just don't put too much emphasis on it in my opinion. Also, don't forget the value of the use effect from the battlemaster trinket that Lairpie mentions below.
Sheshonk posted coefficients back in post #899 (around page 35). No one seemed to question the coefficients, and from a quick glance they seemed right to me.
Ah, thanks... Knowing a search exists isn't enough, I guess -.-
No one is better able to tell you whether a +heal boost once every 2 minutes that's going to be completely useless the vast majority of the time is more valuable than a large self heal on demand than your resto druid is. If he has really good situational awareness and reaction time, he probably doesn't need it, but no one is more able to decide that than him. In a fight where there's no chance of dying, obviously eotm's use is better than the extra 4 healing. I'd say though, if you die on a fight once out of 50 pulls where having battlmasters would have saved you, its better than EOTM unless there's a very distinct time where you're going to save the use effect and use it then for some huge benefit. If you want some only partially serious math, any time chance of trinket saving him * his +healing > eotm's average healing - 88, its a good bet. 2600 * X = 133.5-88 X=1.75%. So, if there's a 1.75% chance that Battle masters will save him, its as good as the average amount of +healing gained from eotm. Obviously people can argue that on use +healing is far better than the average or far worse than the average, and you can argue that I should count some amount of benefit from the time I was alive, before I died, but really the point when it comes down to it is does battlemaster's have a better chance to save the healer or does essence of the martyr have a better chance to save someone.
If you can understand how he would want to use it in sunwell, I would think BT/Hyjal would be even more of a reason to use it. There's virtually no chance of wiping on low tier content from him having less +healing a small portion of the time. A couple of dps dying, still not a wipe. Really the only ways to wipe easily in lower level content is if a couple healers die to either freak accidents like flamestrike, that smite thing, and envenom all at the same time, or being dumb. Either way, healers being less likely to die is probably the easiest way to prevent wiping on farm content.
Also, don't underestimate the increase healing that can be done when you are 1750 hit points less afraid of dying. All those times the tank died where the reason was really that a healer was a little nervous about being at 1/2 hp and the tank died while they were healing themselves, poof, gone. On Archimonde, I know I bag memento and the alchemy trinket for my pvp trinket and battlemasters. Sure, i could easily live without them, but I can promise you the times I've intentionally ran right through a fire and hit my hp trinket and a hot or two on myself when other healers had to run away, or stayed right in close to fires knowing I could trinket fear immediately, have been far more valuable in keeping people alive than an extra chunk of +healing would be.
Spell Coefficients from the Think Tank (seem to jive with Sheshonk's post as well)
Untalented raw coefficients:
Restoration
Healing Touch: 1.00
Rejuvenation: 0.2 per tick
Regrowth (DH): 0.2898
Regrowth (HoT): 0.706 (0.10 per tick)
Lifebloom (HoT): 0.519 (.074 per tick)
Lifebloom (Bloom): 0.429
In reference to changes to the OP, you could add Caster Weapon Swap added to the "Other" section of Addons (for use with both innervates and Spellsurge) as well as a Regen mod such as RegenFu
edit: I'm working on an overhaul of the first post, removing some out of date things and updating the references to Innervate to reflect the new reality that we can easily become Spirit-capped for Innervate (i.e. get into a situation where more spirit has zero benefit for innervate due to mana pool size).
I use that "extra" mana to blast out some Regrowths on the bigger damage takers and just time it so that even after those bonus heals my mana is still full before the Innervate fades. Then I go back into my normal rotations. Making players aware of the situation will definitely be helpful, though.
No one is better able to tell you whether a +heal boost once every 2 minutes that's going to be completely useless the vast majority of the time is more valuable than a large self heal on demand than your resto druid is. If he has really good situational awareness and reaction time, he probably doesn't need it, but no one is more able to decide that than him. In a fight where there's no chance of dying, obviously eotm's use is better than the extra 4 healing. I'd say though, if you die on a fight once out of 50 pulls where having battlmasters would have saved you, its better than EOTM unless there's a very distinct time where you're going to save the use effect and use it then for some huge benefit. If you want some only partially serious math, any time chance of trinket saving him * his +healing > eotm's average healing - 88, its a good bet. 2600 * X = 133.5-88 X=1.75%. So, if there's a 1.75% chance that Battle masters will save him, its as good as the average amount of +healing gained from eotm. Obviously people can argue that on use +healing is far better than the average or far worse than the average, and you can argue that I should count some amount of benefit from the time I was alive, before I died, but really the point when it comes down to it is does battlemaster's have a better chance to save the healer or does essence of the martyr have a better chance to save someone.
At one time I had both of these trinkets and began to realize that I very rarely used the Martyr, but I was pretty good at using the Battlemaster trinket. If your druid has this problem too, he may prefer Battlemaster since it is definitely easier to remember to use (especially if you do arena). I ended up macroing Martyr to swiftmend just so I would actually use it, which helped me.
Anyway from a theorycrafting perspective, lairpie's analysis is pretty much how I see it. I would emphasize, though, that if I had to pick one I would only use the Martyr over the Battlemaster if there was almost no chance of dying. I don't think clickable +healing complements our style of healing very well (reliable hots, raid maintenance with regrowth, emergency healing through swiftmend). It helps swiftmend, but not so much the other two. It won't reliably add to hot tick sizes, and regrowth's direct heal coefficient is not very good anyway; haste is a better stat for it. Clickable healing is not worthless for us, obviously, but I believe it isn't worth as much as passive healing, and in this particular case the added protection from dying due to the Battlemaster's HP boost probably wins out if there is even a slight chance that you will die and cause your remaining healers undue hardship.
Boils down to spot situations. In alot of high end fights you can actually see beforehand if the "oh shit" moment is coming.
Archimonde: Soul Shard is fired/lots of doomfires ticking
Illidan: Flame tank has to move through some stuff/p4 enrage cant be trapped
Kalecgos: A healer missed his portal/Enrage
Brutallus: 4 Burns are ticking/Stomp cant be taunted
Felmyst: Some priest died/Adds are not fetched
Twins: Shadow Nova right before/after sears
Also all scripted fights are very trinket friendly. It sometimes requires more situational awareness than healer healthbar tunnel vision, but it is very doable and smoothes things up especially in fights where your own survivabilty is not an issue or 1.7k hp wont make a difference.
That being said, i also prefer passive trinkets, just because it's one less thing to "worry" about. It is still situationally great though.
I have a query on specing.
I believe that when I come to raid I come fully prepared so I'm filled out in the resto tree apart from Furor, Omen of Clarity and Naturalist.
I think if I don't use all my subtly spells and Improvements I gimp myself and the raid.
How far do the rest of you druids go? (talking Bt/Mh kinda level) In what spec do you prefer to raid? Are you full resto? Or half resto/feral - resto/balance?
I am the Druid Cl in my guild and we recruited many druids over the 12 months we have been a guild, and I find most of them do not like the idea of going full resto because they can't do their dailes.
We are the most elitlist guild, but we believe everyone should come as prepared as possible. I often have druids give me smart alike responces like, 'i never used tranq or regrowth' OK, sure I dont tranq every 2 seconds but I believe Imp Tranq is better than Imp Thorns.
Wondering what your thoughts are on specs. Do you have druids that complain about having to go full resto?
my spec is 4/0/57,
or just look me up in armory Stephealza
If you ever get aggro because you use tranq, get new tanks.
I raid with 13/0/48, there are no other resto talents that i would add to my role as a healer and insect swarm is a nice debuff (RoS/Kalecgos/Brutallus).
"Progress just means bad things happen faster." -- Granny Weatherwax
I have a query on specing.
I believe that when I come to raid I come fully prepared so I'm filled out in the resto tree apart from Furor, Omen of Clarity and Naturalist.
I think if I don't use all my subtly spells and Improvements I gimp myself and the raid.
How far do the rest of you druids go? (talking Bt/Mh kinda level) In what spec do you prefer to raid? Are you full resto? Or half resto/feral - resto/balance?
I am the Druid Cl in my guild and we recruited many druids over the 12 months we have been a guild, and I find most of them do not like the idea of going full resto because they can't do their dailes.
We are the most elitlist guild, but we believe everyone should come as prepared as possible. I often have druids give me smart alike responces like, 'i never used tranq or regrowth' OK, sure I dont tranq every 2 seconds but I believe Imp Tranq is better than Imp Thorns.
Wondering what your thoughts are on specs. Do you have druids that complain about having to go full resto?
my spec is 4/0/57,
or just look me up in armory Stephealza
It's all detailed pretty accurately in the post on the first page. There are 42 points in resto that are 'defining' talents. Anything beyond that generally represents marginal gains. I'd suggest that if you are requiring more than those 42 points, then you are indeed getting quite strict. And I actually would say brambles is far more useful than imp tranquility. I have yet to ever pull threat with tranquility in a 25-man raiding situation. There are plenty of times though when dps have been threat capped, and brambles (though marginal) is one more piece you can add to help a tanks threat. Also, ever seen someone miss killing their inner demon by 1% on Leo? Brambles.
Oh, and if they never use regrowth then they're hampering their healing. I'd worry more about their spell selection than their spec. And don't look at my spec, it's outdated/bad.
I usually raid 16-0-45. The only thing I don't have in resto that I would remotely ever want is Natural Perfection just for the 3% crit. Being able to cyclone something beating on a mage so he can get away and sheep it, having Insect Swarm when I have an opportunity to use it, having the extra range on moonfire and IS and the tiny amount of extra threat from brambles I'd take over imp tranq, or 3% crit, or mana savings on a spell I do 3-4 times a night. I do however almost always get empowered touch for the reliably bigger NS-HT and I get OoC mostly because its a fun talent, but it is also quite useful in a few fights as a few free regrowths saves you a lot of mana (ok, so mostly its because there's nothing else useful to get, but whatever). I had a moonfire crit on one of those shadow demons that was about a foot from hitting our warlock tank for the killing blow. I'll take the chance that my imp moonfire talent saved a wipe there over a ton of lowered tranquility threat and cheaper healing touches.
To more directly answer the question, no I don't think its reasonable in even the most hard core guild in the world to expect druids to get stupid talents in resto over really good talents in the first 3 tiers of balance. Going Feral to get thick hide, brutal impact, and feral charge (very nice for living in hyjal), and the dodge talent isn't a bad use of extra points either.
The way I look at it is if you do indeed define yourself as a raiding guild, or even a progression raiding guild than that is your sole focus. You don't get top 100 in the world if every member comes prepared in a half arena-half-dps build so that they can go do something else after the raid is over. Maybe that's strict, but either you're giving your all for what you can or you're not. People who aren't can easily be replaced with people who are.
That being said, as mentioned above... not even I take 61 pts in resto, but its sure in hell not because I'd like to do my dailies afterwards. Because when we were raiding BT I found some use for wrath spam, although not exactly using it in Sunwell it is still there.
05/18/08, 2:09 PM
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