PSGarak

With regards to lifebloom you might want to indicate a bit how they do interact with temporary buffs now. All three lifebloom stacks work off the +heal at the most recent cast, so after popping a trinket you only need to refresh it once to get a fully trinketed bloom rolling. This means that for a, say, 20-second +heal buff you can get about 26 seconds of fully trinketed lifebloom without too much extra effort. This changes a bit the long-term asymptotic +heal equivalence of clicky trinkets for druids compared to normal classes (duration+6/cooldown instead of duration/cooldown).

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

• athanyel

When I was learning how to deal with Tree of Life's snare, I ended up adding /cancelform to my Healing Touch macro:It's handy for breaking actual snares, running away on Shahraz or Voidreaver or dropping an instant HT when Nature's Swiftness is available.

On another note, do MT-healing Trees see a value in Improved Regrowth? I spend the majority of my time healing our main tank. Since I'm rarely alone doing this job in a 25-man raid, I've found that most of the direct healing from Regrowth was overheal. I wanted to have the additional HOT on the tank but the regular 3k+ overheal was a bit annoying. So, I pulled the points out of Improved Regrowth and went a bit deeper in Balance for my solo farming.

I've been playing with my spec and have settled on Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft for a few weeks now. Anyone else working with a setup like this or have suggestions for a similar build? I want to maintain all of the critical talents in Restoration but still be able to kill non-elites without too much hassle when I'm solo'ing.

 

Kamileon

I've been running with an extremely similar build, Athanyel. It didn't take anything really out of how I heal in raids, but it helped when I solo and do dailies. Were I to respec I would likely no bother putting the extra 3 points in Celestial Focus, but the anti-pushback is handy. I've arenaed specced as such, though not super-seriously or I'd do 8/11/42, but the extra range on roots/swarm and swarm itself were rather handy, as I managed to solo a hunter with it.

An aside about your cancelform thing, I've macroed the hell out of all my shapeshifting expect treeform itself, and I actually keep a macroed /cancelform on my bars next to my shapeshifts for mutli-purpose getting out of the form I'm in uses.

 

Benhoof

I think using Regrowth just because of the HoT is not the way to go, since it is far to expensive. And Indeed the talent is wasted if you use it this way.

If you want to use Regrowth when healing a single MT, Improved Regrowth helps a lot, since it effectively improves its healing output by 50%.
Overhealing is not really an issue since you will expect Regrowth to crit, i. e. cast it so that a crit will bring the MT to full health..

 

Rhaelak

So with the changes of patch 2.3.2. where the "abuse" of temp. +healing buffs is over for lifebloom, do you guys think it is smart to use trinkets with the highest passive +healing on it or still use your trinkets to get a short temp. higher +healing?

Personally Iam leaning towards a maxed out passive +healing to benefit the entire raidingnight from trinkets, instead of poppping them every 2 minutes to gain a short +healing buff.

 

Edghar

I'm also wondering the same thing. Pre-patch I was rolling Lifeblooms with [Tome of Diabolic Remedy] and [Zandalarian Hero Charm], now I've macroed the tome into my lifebloom casts and I'll probably pick up a [Lower City Prayerbook] to replace the charm and macro that as well. Activated +heal trinkets aren't necessarily bad now, they just aren't broken like they were before.

 

Treibh

I think that passive +heal is better that use +heal now. If you macro the use +heal with your lifebloom then you get the benefit of it ~17% of the time (20 seconds every 2 minutes), but you don't get to select that 17%. If you save it for a situation where you think you need to boost your HPS for 20 seconds then you'll get the benefit much less than 17% of the time but it might do more good when you do use it.

Personally I'm going to try going with [Essence of the Martyr] and [Battlemaster's Perseverance] for a good passive +heal. I'll try and use the essence when I know I need a short HPS boost, and I like the PvP trinket as it kind of serves as a 'temporary' healthstone on a seperate cooldown.

 

• giansm

I think Improved Regrowth is too good to drop. If you ever do any spot healing of the raid with Regrowth it is an extremely good talent. Even on the MT, I realize that most of the direct healing will usually be overheal, but our guild's WWS show clearly that direct heals from all classes on the MT are mostly going to be overheal on bosses where MT death is even a remote concern (45-60% overhealing is normal from MT-healing paladins and for the direct healing spells of MT-healing priests). We consider this to be acceptable, since there remains the situation where something is going wrong and none of a heal will be overheal, and this is when the MT needs it the most. For this reason I'm of the opinion that the most important talents of the Restoration spec are the ones that improve the size of your heals, including Improved Regrowth and Empowered Touch (even if it only affects NS). That way you have the power when your MT needs it, even if he doesn't need it all the time.

The spec I've been using for the past couple of weeks is this 11/0/50 spec: Druid Talent Calculator. I get Starlight Wrath and Insect Swarm in Balance, which help a lot for soloing and also Insect Swarm is sometimes fun to use on bosses (I figure if I have the spare GCDs and mana to not be in tree form, 2% hit is a lot, plus it is really sweet on Reliquary of Souls). In Restoration I get all the normal talents plus Natural Perfection, since a 3% crit boost at a druid's normal low level of crit is a 35% increase in the amount of crits you get. This is a marginal boost to Swiftmend and Nature's Swiftness but it is a boost nonetheless. I also get Natural Shapeshifter for those times that I want to shift out of tree temporarily. I have been really liking this spec overall.

I agree 100% with this post, and these are the two trinkets I've decided to use since the patch for exactly the reasons Treibh describes (inherent superiority of passive +heal due to the stability of being "always on", nice to have a boost sometimes, and the healthstone effect).

 

Kigali

Last night my guild killed Hydross and Tidewalker for the first time since the new changes to lifebloom and it's been making me think about how much I relied on trinket lifebloom stacks. Usually on Hydross I would pop my at the beginning of the tank transition to the frost phase (our frost tank seems to take the most damage with our setup) and would be able to keep it up until the next transition. Usually the trinket would be available again when it came back around to frost. Same goes for Tidewalker, I could keep a trinket stack of lifeblooms going throughout the entire fight if I wasn't graved.

In response to the patch notes I decided to sub in my and I have to say I was pleased with how often I noticed the (+326 healing/15sec).

Granted, this effect is totally random so I'm not sure how it compares to having a passive +heal from something like the . My theory is that given the ammount of procs one can reasonably expect from the Living Root over the course of a 10-12min boss fight then it would provide more of a bonus to healing than a passive effect of a much lower value.

There is also the chance of an occasion where activating the Essence of the Martyr in combination with the Slyvan Blessing effect would give extremely powerful lifebloom healing to multiple targets taking steady damage.

Anyways, I was just wondering if anyone else has come to a similar conclusion or gone so far as to actually work out the math to support (or disprove) my theory.

 

Treibh

Someone already did the math for you for [Living Root of the Wildheart] right on wowhead:

But, like I mentioned earlier, you don't get to choose when you get the extra +healing. As a result your HPS isn't going to be as good as a passive +heal of the same value, and there are several easily obtainable trinkets that do better than 73 +healing passively anyway.

 

• giansm

It's my opinion that druid tank healing should be risk-averse in the economic sense, that is, it is definitely better to take a sure $5 than a 50/50 chance for $10, and it may even be better to take a sure $4 or $4.50. The reason for this is that druid tank healing is meant to stabilize their health, and this is best accomplished by steady and predictable healing. If the Living Root procs once a minute it will be up 25% of the time (being generous, slightly more than the wowhead comment says it does). This gives it about +82 long-term average healing. I'd still rather use a Prayerbook, however, since I'd prefer +70 passive healing to having an average of +82 healing constructed from 326 +healing 25% of the time and zero +healing 75% of the time.

 

Kamileon

That was my major difference in spec. I honestly find that I don't use Regrowth for spot raid healing; our healing team isn't forgiving of it. (Two badass Shamans on perpetual raid duty, as well as 3 holy pallies means that my expensive, 2 sec Regrowth isn't practical.)

My primary use of Regrowth is arenas, and in heroics. I use it sometimes in raids when the tank is taking heavy damage, or swiftmend is down, but mostly it is how I cope with my HoTs being insufficient in heroics. A crit regrowth makes a much more significant difference there.

 

Rhaelak

I tend to use regrowth quite alot. And Iam a big fan of the improved regrowth, I even count on the crit heal and have put 2 different ranks on it on my actionbar, using it as a "fast" direct heal on people and especially on fights where for example people are taking a steady flow of damage all the time.

Another question I have which I would like to discuss is our T5 and T6 set bonusses. Atm I got 4 pieces of T5 and we are rumbling our way through the T6 content. As you know the T5 2 set bonus and the T6 2 set bonus are focussed are pretty good. Do you think it would be usefull to keep the T5 2 set bonus combined with T6 2 setbonus? Or just go for each little upgrade you can and max out +healing?

 

◊ Noressa

Go for each upgrade and max out +healing. The 6 seconds on regrowth doesn't do much, other then give you a slightly higher HOT portion. The stats and healing portion of T6 and the leggings of Akama more then make up for it. Even though the 4 piece bonus is wasted, I still see 4 pieces T6 gemmed red with Akama legs as the main setup.

Original Post by Boogsy: Now by benefactor, I am guessing that I am in fact, benefiting from the wealth of knowledge here. Or perhaps it is just benefiting from the Benefactor's Bar....a wonderful place for which I am just exploring.....and preparing to be attacked perhaps a few times
RIP Boogsy

 

Orin

I enjoy using Regrowth when tank/raid mixed healing. I tend to stack hots on 2 tanks, rarely more. The other heals get spread around the raid, usually as lifebloom. This leaves room between hot stacks to toss in a Regrowth every so often.

That said, when tank healing, if the tank goes up and down a lot, I add regrowth to the hot stack. Rejuv, Regrowth, 3x LB, plus some Swiftmend as needed. This really depends on how hard the tank is being hit, how many healers are on him, etc. If the health rarely dips, I might skip Regrowth and instead start throwing around more raid heals.

It adds up though, and after many boss fights when reviewing the WWS report, my regrowth healing often accounts for 20% of my healing done, Rejuvenation another 20%, Swiftmend a few percent, and Lifebloom the rest.

 

• giansm

The only time the T5 2-set bonus is really helpful is when you're doing a lot of raid healing with Regrowth. In that case, it helps that the hot lasts longer, mostly because you will have 1-3 more people at any given time with it on, and it's fodder for swiftmend. When you're healing a main tank it doesn't really have much of an effect, you can just refresh it earlier and it shouldn't be a big deal.

Really, none of our tiers have very amazing bonuses, and I would ignore them all as a general rule. The only somewhat useful bonuses are 2t4, 2t5, and 2t6, but the +healing upgrades on T5-level gear are worth more than 2t4 in my opinion, and the 2t5 bonus is only situationally useful. 2t6 isn't really worth a discussion right now since we don't yet have anything to replace it with.

 

Altaya

Lately I leveled a druid and at this very moment Im hanging around 1900healing/190+mp5/330 spirit.

Some of my friends suggested, that druids should go mostly for mp5 gear only in the begining and later switch to +spirit gear. And I was wandering why, I've seen druids with ~600 spirit and 150mp5 in stats, but is it really better? If Im not the one who's getting Innervates, which obviously are boosted by that amount of spirit, what do I get from it? More +healing from a tree aura? I doubt it is worth it.

I feel like Im missing some info here.

 

delle

I think choosing between mp5 and spirit is somewhat of a personal choice and also somewhat dependant on which group you are normally in during raids. I've tended to lean toward more spirit stacking and am sitting at ~630 spi/140mp5 unbuffed. Because of this I have established a spot for myself in the MT group and rarely find myself in a different group. Mana never is really an issue for me thru buffs and flasks/pots I normally find myself using 5-10 mana pots a night when things are going well. I would say though if you are not going to be finding yourself in the MT group then to stack mp5 until you find that you have enough regen to last those really long boss fights without going oom and then start stacking the spirit.

 

◊ Noressa

It's not better, though I consider people who spirit stack to be reducing their contribution, both personal and raid-wide. Sure your innervates are bigger, and you give a slight boost to your healing aura, but that's a nice to have, and if you don't have many mana issues, then why bother with stacking for a once/6 minute regen mechanic? Instead, work on stacking for +heal so that your lifebloom, which gets ~150% of your +heal bonus, does what it's in the raid for (namely smoothing out spike damage and providing a health buffer.) The gear has its own mana/5 and spirit already, gem for healing and healing & mana/5, let spirit take care of itself.

Original Post by Boogsy: Now by benefactor, I am guessing that I am in fact, benefiting from the wealth of knowledge here. Or perhaps it is just benefiting from the Benefactor's Bar....a wonderful place for which I am just exploring.....and preparing to be attacked perhaps a few times
RIP Boogsy

 

Kamileon

Personally, I think stacking +heal is the best way to go for a resto druid. The gear comes with plenty of spi/mana/5 to sustain you. With full raid buffs/consumables, I run between 650-700 spirit, and around 220-240 mana/5 while casting. (Depends on if I flask or elixir, and which food I use.) Simply put, with tree form our heals are efficient enough that we don't need to spend any extra consideration to regen. If we want to do better, then we increase our +heal.

 

Ailetha

I heal the MTs 95% of the time and I sit in the MT group for all fights in 10 & 25 man raids, the only exception being Archimonde. I have 932 Spirit raid buffed, for the aura. It affects other things, sure, but the only reason I stack spirit is for the aura. Has nothing to do with regen.

It's a matter of preference. If you spend alot of time in the MT group and heal mostly the MTs, prolly you want to stack spirit. Otherwise, stack +heal or balance between +heal/mp5.

Personally, I think druids who sit in the MT group and don't stack spirit are reducing their contribution to the raid. You only need one spirit stacker though, so if you run with multiple resto druids, it doesn't make any sense for more than one to stack really.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...ks/Ailetha.png

 

YagerMyster

On the subject of multiple resto druids, I'd like the druid healers here to evaluate Dreamstate/Resto healing. If you already have a tree in the main group, would a dreamstate healer be an effective contributor? Or is there too much spirit found on resto druid gear that would be 'wasted' if you weren't a tree?

Do you feel it is a viable spec in 25man raids? Also, what if the tree druid was unavailable for a raid, would that change your opinions of the value of a dreamstate druid healing?

Our guild is currently farming Kara and Gruuls and learning ZA/TK/SSC (In case this info is helpful).

 

Uldreth

Swiftmend is what really gets lost with a 34/0/27. Instead of having an emergency button every 13-15 sec., you have one every 3 minutes. I'd feel as if I was running without a net with no swiftmend.

It's been well enough documented in this thread and others that HT style is dead. It's just too slow. No Empowered Rejuvination is no way to go.

Leave the direct healing to the other three classes and play to your strenghts, which are lifebloom rolling and keeping rejuvination or regrowth up to swiftmend if need be.

 

Pyros

Yeah I think the consensus is stack spirit if you're always in MT group, for the aura which adds more benefit raidwide than your own contribution, but if you don't, and I don't, just stack healing as much as possible. If I need some spirit for innervate I'll equip a spirit weapon, but frankly I'd much rather use that innervate on someone else, especially spriests since it's like giving lots of mini innervates to 5people.

As for dreamstate builds... You gain more mana sure, but you also spend 20% more since you're not in treeform. The only fight I'd consider it over full resto would be archi since you have to decurse, but no swiftmend on archi would really suck a lot. Almost everything but the mana regen in balance is useless for healing, and while I do wrath spam on trash quite often to make it faster if there's nothing to heal(I have 13points in balance), it's totally worthless on bosses(besides leo to kill inner selves, but that can be done easily without any points in balance). I only argue with my class leader about the utility of the talent that reduces pushbacks on regrowth, I say it's useless and I could get more balance, and he says I need it, even tho I almost never cast it, and never while getting hit anyway.

 

◊ Noressa

If you have a tree in the main group, I'd suggest 1 other tree in the raid, at most, then feral or full balance depending on your guild roster. There really isn't much benefit to having more then 2 trees in the raid, and there is no benefit post Kara for having a dreamstate druid in the raid (outside of personal preference).

A better way to understand it is to understand what is gained and lost with these specs -
Dreamstate:
1) You gain 10% of your int as mana/5.
2) You gain 25% of your int as +healing/+damage
3) You reduce the cost of several damage and healing spells by 9%. (Does not include Lifebloom.)

Tree of Life:
1) You have Swiftmend, a fast heal on a 15 second cooldown timer, one of the best spike healing tools.
2) Empowered Rejuv increases your HOT effects by 25%. (For the effect it has on Rejuv, a non talented rejuv gets you 80% (20% per tick), 100% with 5/5 Empowered Rejuvenation. Gift of Nature and Improved Rejuvenation stack additively, increasing the total amount healed by Rejuvenation by 25% (at 5/5 and 3/3 respectively) after bonus healing contribution is calculated.)
3) Tree of Life reduces the mana cost of all the spells cast in tree form by 20%.

The benefits of a dreamstate druid vanish as your gear increases. At some point, 10% of int as mana/5 becomes nearly always pointless. The mana/5 that was missing from a lower gear level gets replaced and your regen will go up with upgrades. The same holds true for your +healing. As stated in the post above, the biggest loss out of all of this is swiftmend. At my level of gear it's a 4k+ non crit heal on the tank, every 13 seconds with the 2 piece T6 bonus. For helping to mitigate spike damage, that's a huge number for a very small cooldown.

The only other "alternative" spec which helps mitigate some of the downsides would be a 27/0/34. This only gives you swiftmend, however, and you lose the bonus regen that dreamstate provides, you still don't have the mana reduction from tree of life, and Lunar Guidance still gives you no mana reduction on swiftmend or lifebloom.

For someone who is doing just heroics and Kara, still working up to 1400-1500 +heal, dreamstate is a spec that will help them with the mana issues of lower gear levels and inflate their +healing to help out at the same time. Once you reach 1400 to 1500, there is no real reason to stick with a dreamstate spec beyond wanting a DPS class that doesn't need to respec. At that point, I'd say you're better off either having them as a tree or getting them to spec Moonkin and give your mages a 5% crit aura and faerie fire.

Original Post by Boogsy: Now by benefactor, I am guessing that I am in fact, benefiting from the wealth of knowledge here. Or perhaps it is just benefiting from the Benefactor's Bar....a wonderful place for which I am just exploring.....and preparing to be attacked perhaps a few times
RIP Boogsy