malthrin

Your Wild Growth spammer is doing it wrong. This spell is preposterously effective for dealing with any sort of AoE damage.

The healing you're doing with the HT glyph is basically Flash Heal spamming, like used to be the standard back in BWL. You've touched on the obvious problem - it burns your mana like it's been soaked in gasoline. Now consider that the fights in 3.0 are short, and we mostly overgear them, meaning that any mana issues we have now will be much more severe in WotLK when raid fights actually last a decent amount of time again. Even if you could make the mana work by gemming spirit and gimping your +heal, I still wouldn't bring an HT Druid; Paladins can do it harder (bigger, faster HL) and Priests can do it longer (and not gimp their other tools to do it).

Anyway, here's an example WWS of what you can do with Wild Growth (5/0/56): Wow Web Stats The thing with Wild Growth is that spamming it just wastes your mana; like any other hot, you just need to refresh it in a timely fashion to keep the numbers rolling.

 

Lorrianne

Oh i totally agree about your wildgrowth spammer comment.

Some interesting data there, especially on Felmyst who we are combating next week. You've just given me an idea about raid setup, many thanks.

Yes the old ways of Tree healing still rock on some fights, and i still remember the days when one could Keep lifeblooms on 4 Melee/Tanks and rule the healing roster and still have enough mana spare to donate to the Priests still stuck in Patch 2.3 (the poor sods). However as the post quite clearly mentions, its a spec designed for those who are tad tired of the the lifebloom spam and who have itchy fingers, and granted its not a sensible spec for raiding, but BT/MH is pretty pitiful now and it only took us one night to kill Kalecgos and Brutallus with all the strats/guides out there.

The issue with Wildgrowth, as one will find initially, its still a hot and its two/seven ticks do half the healing of a non crit COH, and with a Free for All healing attitude in our raid, especially on trash mobs, you'll find your preemptive healing shamans and your CoH priests overhealing your hots, it was like the old issue that some people found with Lifebloom/Rejuv...and back in those days i use to raid as a COH priest and see an old resto Druid last on the meters.

Our pallies also lack haste, so atm its not an issue beating them to the crunch, and yes i know its a wrong attitude to take.

Some lovely stats there on WWS, you sir are indeed a wonderful example to all Wildgrowth Trees out there.

 

tylanthea

I know Current spellpower * 1.88 OR Current spellpower / 0.53 = old +healing.

What I'm getting at is how I'm supposed to conver the Current +healing (tracked independently from spellpower, as you pointed out, and I've been trying to point out) into the old +healing. I don't know why I'm obsessing over this, but I just need to compare my pre-patch and current stats to see how much a difference the new talents made in terms of raw +healing, so that I can play around with my spirit values.

What I'm getting at is.. the "healing power" that is tracked independently from spellpower in patch 3.x, how do you convert that to the old +healing?

Old heal = Current heal * 1.88??

 

Norfair

Yes, that should be right. Are you getting "weird" numbers or something?

Looking for guild with healthy raidtimes for Icecrown.

 

Lon

I would have thought it would be more like below as the additional healing effects are not adding anything to your current spellpower?

(Current Spellpower [damage] * 1.88) + (additions to healing value) = Total

 

Rhaegal

No, because the coefficients for heals are based off the new spell power scale, so any bonuses to healing spell power specifically (like Imp. Tree of Life) will use the same scale.

Stand back! I'm going to try SCIENCE!

 

tylanthea

What about healing power based on spirit? :/ (Like Imp. Tree of Life)

 

Anaram

Those affect healing spell power so it's on the new scale. Same with amplify magic etc.

 

tylanthea

I think each post is just confusing me more.. I'll just do some calculations and come up with a conclusion when i have some time.

 

Norfair

It really isn't that hard. Currently spellpower and healing power are "the same". If you get extra spellpower on your gear, both values will go up. The only reason there are 2 values in your char screen and not 1, is because this way it is possible to buff healing ONLY, like improved ToL does. So what imp. ToL does, is convert your spirit to spellpower, but ONLY apply it to your healing spellpower because they do not want to buff your "dps" spellpower as well. I am sure there will be other buffs in WotLK or in other talents that do exactly the same thing: only buff your healing value so that you don't receive a dps increase, like for example Earthliving weapon ("Imbue the Shaman's weapon with earthen life. Increases healing done by 110 and each heal has a 20% chance to proc Earthliving on the target, healing an additional 456 over 12 sec. Lasts 30 minutes.")

Looking for guild with healthy raidtimes for Icecrown.

 

Madlib

I haven't sifted through the 60 pages of this completely, but I was wonder if anyone know where Blizzard is going with the Living Seed talent, as of now it seems useless to me (in a PvE respect) and is accounting for ~1% of my heals mainly off of regrowth crits (sometimes I only cast this once or twice during an entire encounter!).

Does blizzard plan to buff this talent, or itemize our gear heavily for crit (bad idea imo). I think this talent needs a rework somewhere, for the time being I think i'd take Replenish over it.

 

Deathwing

It's been hotfixed(maybe?) to work like Earth Shield and Prayer of Mending:

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - GC- Living Seed is Broken...Please Fix

 

Madlib

Apparently, but my problem with the talent is the spells it can proc off of. If this talent were to be made worthwhile it should proc off lifebloom final bloom crits. Here's the Living Seed healing %'s off of a BT clear 2 weeks ago:

Illidan 0.9%
Council 2.0%
Shahraz 0.0%
Bloodboil 0.0%
RoS 0.0%
Gorefiend 0.0%
Akama 0.0%
Supremus 1.2%
Naj'entus 0.0%

Basically if you're raid healing, this talent is worthless, and if you are single target healing it is still questionably worthy.

Source:
Bane's WWS Parser

 

Deathwing

How often does your lifebloom crit? You'd seriously reevaluate the worth of this talent if it could be applied on a crit at the end of a 7s HoT? You can't say you barely get any healing out it and then also say you barely ever cast regrowth. Want to see more healing from living seed? Cast regrowth more.

The reason that WWS, from 2 weeks ago(important!), is so dismal is because it wasn't working as intended then. With it working like earth shield now or sometime soon, it will be much better. The point of the talent is to basically make your regrowth a good spell just for the initial heal.

 

Madlib

So Blizzard is leaning towards spamming Regrowth after they add Nourish into the game?

In a raid my lifeblooms crit for ~20% of the time. It is a significant amount. If it is to work like POM, let it proc after a lifebloom final bloom crit, and act as a POM/Earthshield for the next time that person takes damage. I don't think this talent can justify the spamming of regrowth.. that's just me though. At least add a super deep tier talent to a spell we use in large quantities instead of one used sparingly/situationally.

 

Deathwing

I'd use nourish on people I'm not expecting to take damage soon, thus the seed would be wasted. I'd use regrowth on people that take lots of damage, or will soon. If you go by this last part, the people you heal a lot will also have hots on them for swiftmend more likely than not.

Yes, there does seem to be some overlapping of boundaries, but then there's also the HT glyph, nourish, and regrowth. I'd rather there be more options than only one(flash heal).

 

Amijay3

Here are the concerns I have from Beta:

1. Lifebloom's last nerf was too harsh. Blizzard takes the stance that Druids did nothing but spam LB. K. Why?

Druids began spamming LB because:

a. Regrowth was awful.
b. Rejuv was too slow of a tick rendering it situational at best. Those situations grew more frequent in Sunwell.
c. Tree of Life prohibited us from casting down-ranked Healing Touch
d. We couldn't raid heal because Hots were not capable of competing with CH and CoH.

These problems have been fixed:

a. Regrowth Glyph is just plain good.
b. Rejuv is still slow but at least it has a bonus affect with talents.
c. You can cast all heals in Tree Form now.
d. We were given a AOE heal to compete against other AOE healers.

This steers Druids AWAY from being LB spammers in of itself in that our other heals are GOOD. We can USE them. And others will see we are now able to fill more than the stereotypical role of MT hotters.

As mentioned, Druids began steering away from this in Sunwell. My top heal for M'uru and KJ was Rejuv. However, the percentages between Rejuv, Regrowth, and LB were pretty close. MUCH closer than say Shaman's CH and HW, or the poor Paladins. And when I looked at other guilds' WWS I saw that my healing style was NOT that far off. A lot of Druids were breaking free of LB.

My problem here is that Blizzard, and our much esteemed Ghostcrawler, are feeding into the myth we only used LB. Even after we showed them this was not entirely true in high-end pve though various WWS parses of some of the top guilds. ( However, I fear there were just too few Druids to keep up the cause because so few Druids were used in Sunwell. ) In my honest opinion, LB's original nerf would have left us with a perfect balance between our spells. We could have really had something for everything. With the last nerf LB is out. It is awful, and here is why:

The nerfed LB is not scaling well at 80: Healing about 2% of a tanks health per tick. Taking 3 GCD and 9 seconds to do the Healing a 2 second cast Holy Light does. ( I know comparing Hots to Direct Heals isn't smart, but that is the only way to show how weak LB is. ) In addition the mana cost to stack LBs loses efficiency the more targets you put it on. The consensus seems to agree 2 targets at most would be the limit in terms of efficiency. I ask you, unless your specific job in a raid was to heal only 2 tanks (and with our other spells this is not likely to happen again) is LB something you would waste a GCD for? I haven't, and don't plan to.

I firmly believe LB is being nerfed for PvP alone. This is scurry as it means whatever other spell the masses decide they don't like will be sacrificed next on the 2v2 Alter.

2. Direct Heal Redundancy

a. Regrowth - Leaves a Hot
b. Nourish - Needs a Hot
c. Glyph HT - Old-Fashioned Direct Heal

All heal for close to the same amount, with close to the same mana costs, with close to the same cast times. IMO the differences are negligible.

I believe Nourish needs reworking. I would like to see it as a All Spec Heal. Something boomkins, bears, and kitties can use to help with their PvP survivability. Perhaps an instant heal or cast on the move heal with a short cooldown. Anything other than a duplicate Regrowth. Honestly I feel Trees have enough to get by, and if LB is fixed we would be golden.

All in all I am very happy with the Tree Changes. My disappointment at LB only radiates because of my disdain for Arena, and to have my PvE affected by it really russells my leaves.

 

• DigitalDemon

I'd add to your list that Lifebloom's duration was very short and required recasting at set intervals to be efficient. It locked you into a rotation around it, no matter how many targets you cast it on.

Then they made multi-tank fights fairly common on top of that, where it could really shine in combination with other healers to cover for spikes. It was a good way to cut down on the number of healers required to heal through certain fights, which in turn allowed more DPS to be brought to help with the enrage timers and other mechanics.

 

Darian_TruBlade

Glyphed HT is the first or those three heals to fall to redundancy. Regrowth and Nourish simply cover 99.9% of situations without needing secondary talents or Glyphs to do it.

Nourish falls second because of its design. Originally it was designed as a direct heal for trees as Healing Touch was unusable. Then Healing Touch opened up and Regrowth got a killer glyph (less killer now, but still very decent). It no longer fills any gap, it's just ever so slightly better in a few outlying (and trivial) cases.

Nourish definitely needs reworking, but I have to agree that Trees really have just about all the tools we could want. We even already have your "instant/cast on the move heal" in the form of Swiftmend (though the cooldown isn't exactly short) and an additional one would frankly be overpowered for PvP. There are possibilities for new healing spells, but it just doesn't seem necessary.

"A man's IQ, yearly income, sexual prowess, ingenuity, physical appearance and generally every other aspect of his character can be condensed down to four digits: his Arena rating." - Zechsy [70 Rogue - Skullcrusher (EU) - 10/23/2007]

 

Mearis

LB was also largely nerfed because of PvP. It is by far the best heal in PvP, offering excellent throughput, dispell protection, and mana efficiency.

 

Harmonics

Why did druids get their talents refunded? I don't see any huge changes in the patch notes.

.

 

Rhaegal

Something wonky that I don't really understand happened with druid talents in this mini-patch, because we have to re-train ranks of talents that previously we retained after respeccing out of and back into, like Wild Growth/Mangle/etc. You're not missing anything, though, there really weren't any major changes other than a couple Balance talents having the number of ranks reduced.

[edit] Oops, misread the patch notes. I didn't have to retrain skills after all. It was just the points changes in balance, as someone stated later.

Stand back! I'm going to try SCIENCE!

 

Nitz

Reducing two 5-ranks talent to 3-ranks talent is a major change, technically.

 

◊ Lorewanderer

The point reduction in the balance tree caused the refund.

 

Raised

This is one thing that kind of bums me out about WotLK. In an effort to try to 'force' druids to do some direct casting, they gave us a bunch of spells that effectively do the same thing. If we get a Flash Heal type spell in Nourish, why do our HT and RG glyphs also have to turn those spells towards that functionality as well?

IMO, they should either:

a) Turn the functionality of Nourish into a more interesting situational ability. In the past I've suggested an ability on a medium (15-30s) cooldown that renewed all HoT/DoT effects on an ally/enemy extremely mana-efficiently or gave them a potency boost (all active HoTs/DoTs will tick for XX% extra.)

b) Give the Glyphs for HT/RG something more unique than "you can now use these as fast-casting spamable heals."

I've seen mentions of them analyzing if Nourish is still needed as-is with the new Glyphs, so that gives me a little hope at least.