I often use RG alot on Naj'entus and recently messed around in IF in a test of endurance against someone.
My gear is somewhat stronger and I could not sustain chain-casting max rank RG for any major length of time without SP/Totems/Potions/IV*.
Fully raid buffed (food/elixirs) and using potions, my own IV and potentially a Shaman or something and I could endure RG8 near indefinatly, but constant use of RG10 will break me down before 8mins im pretty certain (without a SP).

Your post is misleading, and when people are already being stupid saying things like "zomg druids imba mana never run out" etc, its just annoying to see a Druid say something which is acting towards this, because honestly you cant without abnormal additions.

I just find the entire discussion of mana regen mostly pointless. Shahraz aside, each time we get to a new progression fight, I find myself wishing for more throughput (+heal and haste), not more mana. I do agree that you can always find something to spend your mana on (161 DPS on Brutallus! Wow Web Stats), but that extra something is rarely as beneficial to your primary role in a progression fight as more throughput would be.

Well, I agree, although I usually tend to find myself wishing for both. I was mostly commenting on the frequently returning statements from people saying how they can't manage to spend their mana for the life of them and now recently the guy making an argument for not even using super mana's at all. In that case I just have to wonder if they are really contributing everything they can.

I figured it differently, your way is the correct way. I tried calculating the difference in mp5 I'd get while unbuffed:

774 mp5 * 0.7 = 541 mp5 gained for 15 seconds, or 1623 mana, and yeah over two minutes that's 67.75 mp5. Looking at what I wrote down I'm not even sure what I did. ^_^ Thanks a ton for your help Kalaghan.

You can just quit with that attitude right now. If I have to pot, I pot. If I'm a minute into a fight and I see my mana regen isn't keeping up with my mana expenditures, I pot. My philosophy towards potting, though, is that if I'm having to use pots to keep my mana up, I'm doing something wrong. Either I'm geared wrong or I'm not spending my mana smartly. I feel like that potting is something you should save for "OSHI-" moments, not something you should work into your regular rotation of mana regen. Yeah, okay, if that's how some of you guys see it, fine. I'd rather not rely on potions to make my playstyle work. I aim to optimize healing and regen with gear and skills, and only then do I start throwing flasks, elixirs, stat food, and potions into it. Easier to push yourself when you know you've got headroom instead of knowing you have no room at all.

I guess to sum up my feelings:

If you're completely OOM at the end of a fight, haven't you done something wrong? You always wanna have room for something more than what you're doing for when Mr. Murphy shows up and healers start dying.

But hey, I'm just in TK/SSC, and those don't really count right? Yeah.

You can always drop Tree Form and keep up Insect Swarm (assuming no Boomkin) to further boost your utility at the cost of this huge amount of regen thats unable to beat down some people have

For eg on Brut my role is Burn healing but I also do Tank healing, and keeping up Insect Swarm where possible.
Im unable to be in Tree Form for this and near every GCD (beyond 30sec into the fight..) is used on -something-.
Given Elixirs, Food, Pots (Alchemist too), Drums, and my own IV - I still end up depleted on mana and hitting a rough spot around 30-90secs to the end of the fight, but im pushing myself to my limits beyond my assigned role (which has prio, other things will drop off if this requires more attention) to the limits of my gear just because else it will be wasted.

Hes actually a fight where I would want more regen (and a removal of haste) than what I currently have in an ideal world.

You're entitled to feel that way, but this is a forum for optimzing druid healing, which absolutely involves chain popping mana potions. I'm certainly not saying you can't post but its pretty silly to discus anything about healing optimization with a whole bunch of people that have completely planned their gearing choices around the assumption that they will be getting 100, or for some of us 140 mp5 from mana potions, and using draenic wisdom, elixir of healing power, and either brilliant mana oil or superior wizard oil for every fight where it could potentially matter.

You should really read a chunk of Mana regen - the last broken mechanic It gets a little off topic and goes on about how mana pots are one of the most broken game mechanics ever and how anyone trying to do their best is basically just chain hitting them because there is 0 reason not to. If you really want to discuss mana potion use, whether its strategic, whether its a fun game mechanic, that's a good place to do it. Here, the discussions all assume you're chain using mana pots, and gearing accordingly.


By your own logic, shouldn't you be popping mana pots the whole time in case something like that happens?

This is just polarizing the issue. I was objecting against people stating they could not spend their mana quick enough, which is a far cry from carelessly running yourself into the ground.


That's you putting labels on yourself, you won't see me say or think such a thing.

[Druid] Raiding as a Tree
"Consumables:
Flask: [Flask of Mighty Restoration]."


Why there isn't even mention about [Flask of Distilled Wisdom]

In six minute fight(brutallus) [Flask of Mighty Restoration] gives 25 * 360 / 5 = 1800mana

65 int give with kings 1072.5 to manapool and some more regen. So [Flask of Distilled Wisdom] is better than [Flask of Mighty Restoration] if that regen outweight 1800-1072.7 = 727.5 That is only 10.1mp5

65int give:
* At 300 spirit, ten points of additional intellect on gear are worth 1.0 to 1.2mp5.
* At 400 spirit, ten points of additional intellect on gear are worth 1.3 to 1.6mp5.
* At 500 spirit, ten points of additional intellect on gear are worth 1.6 to 2.0mp5.
* At 600 spirit, ten points of additional intellect on gear are worth 1.9 to 2.4mp5.
* At 700 spirit, ten points of additional intellect on gear are worth 2.3 to 2.8mp5.
* At 800 spirit, ten points of additional intellect on gear are worth 2.6 to 3.2mp5.
6.5 * 1.6 is only needed and that range is 400-500spi/600-400int.
Int also give some spell crit(not so hot) and if your party got resto shaman then it give more mana via manatide.

So conclusion is why front page don't list better flask?

First note: If you're used to your regen and casting as you like, then maybe analyze what it is you're doing with your mana and see if it's the best use of your abilities. Are you healing the tank, the raid, thorinw hunters pets heals because, oh well maybe the shaman chain heals aren't getting them? What do you do in raids? 95% of the time, I'm on the tank. It's what I do. I'm also on the raid a lot, however that said, the tank is my responsibility. If I'm using mana faster then I should, then I need to remember that's what raid healers are for. A single tank mana rotation isn't all that intensive, we have some leeway. That said, we shouldn't be on the tank ~and~ on the raid full time. Judging by the tone of your posts, you do a lot of extraneous healing. You can ask any of the healers we have, and they'll tell you that our HOT's (we use 2 trees for most things, not Brut) usually mean they have little else to do other then focus on the raid. That's achieved by more HP/S rather then more mana/5.

I have to agree with Playered. Currently, the only fight I'm wishing I had more regen is Brut. I actually use the Sunwell trash gloves and swap in a few other pieces, as well as equip my innervate staff for my innervate. In every other fight I've been in, having a higher healing is a greater return for the raid then whether or not I can play superhero and heal everything.

No one really uses a flask for anything other than farm content or saving money which is the opposite of optimizing. [Elixir of Draenic Wisdom] + [Elixir of Healing Power] blow any flask out of the water to the point where they're probably 3 times better than any flask we could use. When the post was made, there was no regen from int, so for almost any fight the mp5 flask was better. I imagine Gian will update it at some point to include the int flask as a viable choice for farm content.

First i'd like to say that i don't think i've ever posted in this thread, but it's pretty much been where i learned all i ever learned about being an effective tree. So thanks to everyone! /cry

My main for the last year or so is a resto druid in a guild that is through everything but Kael for T5, and has 3 bosses down in Hyjal.
The World of Warcraft Armory
(that link may or may not catch me in my raiding gear, farming caster gear, or PVP gear...)

I've gone through many stages in my time raiding. From a period where I maxed out spirit to the point of being ridiculous and hitting over 1000 with procs while working on early parts of SSC. Thinking it was a good utility thing to buff the healing on tank groups as much as possible, and also giving myself a ton of regen in the process. After a while doing this, i was still at or very close to the top of healing meters on just about everything. With rather low amounts of +healing in the 1600-1700 range unbuffed. From comments i'd get from the raid leader, and other players, it was obvious that i was probably the best healer the guild could muster, being relatively casual as we are.

So to help the raid more as a whole, i decided to shift focus to almost entirely +healing, regemmed almost everything with rubies, and got a few cloth/leather drops that lacked spirit in favour of more +heal. This started putting me well on top of meters on most fights, with exceptions where i performed different oddball roles. When haste changed in 2.4 to effect the global cooldown, i already had Dark Blessing from our first ever Zul'jin kill, and coupled it with only another 2 pieces of haste gear, getting me up to 60 haste, which wasn't much, but more than most healers in the guild bothered to get. Almost right away i went from mostly leading the meters by a smidgen, to blowing the other healers out of the water more often than not. But i think this is mostly from sniping off swiftmend heals that i can do faster than a priest can cast flash heal, as well as being able to toss out more global cooldowns over the course of a long fight than anyone else could. Of course meters aren't everything, and this has illustrated it to me quite clearly. being the one on top of them though, it does make it easier for me to tell other heals "LOOK, i'm destroying everyone on meters, that doesn't necessarily mean i'm god of healing, it's just a result of gear choices that may or may not be best for the raid"

After finally catching up on the mana regen changes that happened in 2.4, i've started to shift focus again, to be more of a balance of all these things i've overdone it on before. I have a large enough amount of +heal in the 2000 range unbuffed, and worked my way back up to 600 buffed spirit which seems a nice sweet spot for mana regen where i think now i'll start adding a bit of int, and have tried the flask of distilled wisdom only a few times now, on kael attempts, where i think it has paid nice dividends for me.

So i guess the point is that being healing druids, we often have access to many pieces of gear that no one else wants, healing leather often either goes to me, or it gets disenchanted, so pick up things to try them out, have different sets of gear not only for specific fights, but to mix and match things on farmed fights that don't require something very specific, and see what you like, or what works best.