BOHIC

Ok, so it's multiplicative and thus always reduces your current threat (after buffs/talents/enchants/etc) by 2%. I think it's a bit confusing to say it always reduces your threat by 2% without mentioning that caveat because that makes it sound like you won't see diminishing returns stacking it with other threat reductions. Anyhow, you are right and I'm just talking about semantics, so I'll shut it now.

 

Varrah

Okay, so it's multiplicative, and thus fairly useless.

Well, on the subject of mana regen, then...
I assume there is a point where you have "infinite mana"- you innervate every six minutes, and pot every two minutes, and spamming such and such spells, you will never go out of mana. Might anyone know where we can find charts displaying "if you cast regrowth every X seconds, and Lifebloom every Y seconds", etc?

Currently I cast regrowth on the MT every 27 seconds (2 pieces of T5), so I always have swiftmend if I really need it. I also try to keep rejuvenation up, but I keep regrowth there in case I get an intense spot of raid healing and want to let rejuvenation fall off. Then I use a combination of regrowths and lifeblooms on raid healing for really intense fights (such as Naj'entus). Currently I have over 300mp5 and have no "problems", but I'm wondering how I will do on a 20 minute fight like Illidan, so I'd like to reach what is essentially infinite mana, and then I'll worry about which meta gem to go for.

 

• Playered

There was a post which had how much MP5 you would need to make up for each individual cast of RG, RJ, LB etc but I cannot find it currently, and I've gone through the old 'Mana Regen...' and the 'Has your... Lifebloom' one without luck.

Treat it like accoutancy; Capital (Mana Pool), Income (Mana Regen - Pots, MP5, IV, Drums..), and Expenses (Spells cost per 30 or 60sec), work out averages per min or 6min rotation (your choice).



Regarding Illidan then P1 you will tend to stay at 90-100% mana unless you really want to go overboard for the meters.
Basing rest from my own experience with 220 MP5 350~ Spirit and around 10k Mana Pool all unbuffed. My group will not contain a SP or Shaman, no Potions will be used.
My role in P2 is double Lifebloom on Flame Tanks, and I tend to keep a RJ up on one , P3/5 is MT + Burning players, P4 is Burning players and general raiding healing, I'm also going by an 8 healer setup.
P2 I'll use most of my mana, an Innervate (bangled) and end up around 20-40% mana by P3.
P3 onwards it pretty low maintenance and I'll end up getting my second Innervate to put me back up on mana to last me the rest of the fight.

That's all assuming the fight goes smoothly, and its not really using my full potential or ability to try and pull off ultra high healing meters.
It's really only heavily draining in P2 unless you have idiots who decide to clump up and result in 3-6 people Burning per phase/shift.


Infinate mana is really an illusion you cannot attain because once you hit that point you can just start (raid) healing more (via RG, RJ, and what ranks of RG aswell), or give up your group setup (SP/Shaman) and your Innervate.

 

Treesurgeon

This has been an interesting thread with alot of information to digest. I have not been playing a druid very long but currently find my warrior tank on hold and myself being the druid class lead for a T5 guild.

In terms of regen vs. + heal I think much depends on your style and role within a given guild/raid as well as the level of gear you have access to. I am in pretty much Kara/T4 gear with a couple bits and pieces from SSC and the badge shoulders. I tend to be an MP/5 whore while trying to keep up my spirit and + heal. I use as many Royal Nightseye as I can and have an IED for my meta at the sacrifice of some + heal.

I am with the MT group for the ToL aura in most conventional encounters. I lead the healing meters on most boss fights and over all (including trash) I'm top 3 every night. I think in many ways our healing is one of our weaker aspects and I have to do more and a little differently than other trees in other raids. I can and do brute force heal from time to time. My MO is generally to keep LB stacks up on tanks, weave in RJ's and RG's while taggin the raid with RJs and low rank RGs. I burn through alot of mana healing alot of targets and a GCD doesn't go by that I'm not refreshing an LB stack or finding someone to heal very often.

Reading this thread, I see some of the things I need to work on and do to improve my game.

 

Ribeye

Quick Question for anyone able to break down the numbers.

I currently have the memento, rejuvenating gem, and the tome of diabolic remedy at my disposal. Of course I'm going to use the memento, but am I better off on the second trinket with rejuvenating gem, or the tome (combined with a macro that uses it on every lifebloom cast.) I'm pretty much done with gear and I think the rejuvenating gem, while powerful is always an eyesore, so I'm kinda leaning towards replacing it. I stack MP5 primarily btw...

 

◊ Noressa

Tome of Diabolic Remedy: 18mana/5, +heal equivalent= 66
Lower City Prayerbook: 9 spells in 15 seconds, 22 x 9 = 198, 12 ticks/minute = 16.5 m/5, +heal of 70

I'd still recommend the Essence of the Martyr, though. It's the strongest +healing trinket out there for us.

Original Post by Boogsy: Now by benefactor, I am guessing that I am in fact, benefiting from the wealth of knowledge here. Or perhaps it is just benefiting from the Benefactor's Bar....a wonderful place for which I am just exploring.....and preparing to be attacked perhaps a few times
RIP Boogsy

 

• uliko

Since there has been some recent discussion about meta gems, specifically IED vs BED, I figured I'd post some data I collected from the IED.

Most people seem to believe it has a 5% proc chance with no ICD which is wrong. I switched to the IED I think patch 2.2(?), it was the patch that increased the proc rate atleast, so the data is collected from back then. So far I've recorded 2676 procs and the shortest time between any two has been 15 seconds which, to me, cleary shows it has a 15 sec ICD. Also since I found the ICD I've done another 66,621 spell casts and over those casts it proced 2610 times which gives it a proc rate of 2610/66621~=3.92%.

Also from what I remember the meta also procs from non-spell casts such as picking herbs which means the data might be a bit polluted (higher proc rate since more procs but no new spell casts recorded). But since its gathered over a couple of weeks of raiding it should be fairly accurate.

Having all that said though looking over a few WWS parses the IED usually nets me around 25 mp/5 on any given fight.

 

galzohar

Even with 15s cooldown and spamming spells (which is worst case scenario when it comes to cooldown hurting the overall effect) you will get average time to proc = 15 + 1/(0.05/1.5) = 45s. 300 mana ever 45s = 33.3 mp5. Cast less often and while you will get lower mp5, the loss over what it used to be will go down due to less cooldown interruption. So it's still pretty powerful regen even if it has 15s cooldown. On a side note your data points at a plain 5% proc rate being unreasonable, however if you consider 15s cooldown your 3.92% proc rate fits well with "5% proc but 15s cooldown".

 

Kaleido

Is there a good gear list any where?
Or calculators for gear stats?

 

• Cluey

This isn't the sort of forum which just hands you what you want, this forum educates you on how to choose the right gear.
The first post should give you a good idea of the stats you want to aim for and how to gem and enchant the gear you get.
I suggest going to Wowhead: Your skill in WoW has increased to 375. and learning to use the filters there to find what items drop and where from.
You can use item levels or just add a filter for Drops in ... to segregate loot from different zones.

This search lists epic healing gear a druid can equip of item level 100 and above, sorted by level then slot.

 

Pyros

Your role in the raid will affect the item stats weight. If you're in tank group, you'll want to value spirit higher than mp5 or even healing, if you're not, and have a spriest or a shaman, you will probably just stack healing, if you're in a no regen no tank group, you might want to strike a balance between mp5 and healing. Your playstyle will also impact this choice, so I don't think there's a straight answer.

As for gear list, primal mooncloth/whitemend/S3 pvp stuff is good for their slots, even at T6 level. ZA has quite a few good drops too, both cloth and leather, can't really go wrong with these. Just add badge gear and you're pretty much set. When I first started playing resto I asked the same question, but in the end 15mins on wowhead were enough to find out what I wanted in every instance I was running, and it wasn't much. We're now on illidan, and I'm still using my S3 neck, my S3 cloak, my S3 ring, my primal mooncloth set, my prince malchezaar's mace and my honor healing trinket+lower city prayerbook/badge trinket. Obviously I'm eyeing some replacements in BT and MH, but most of them are rather minor upgrades or very sought after items(archimonde's staff).

 

Prado

Not complete, but a good place to start:
The Druid Wiki - Healing Gear List

 

noway

In the original article is a link to LootRank.com :
Loot Rank

But as said above, it all depends on your roll in your group.

 

Troubluid

There was a discussion earlier about Lifebloom timers that I wanted to comment on. I have tried DOTimers, but I really didn't find it very useful as it spammed my screen with timers for anyone I healed in the raid and the bars weren't easy to associate with the player's heal box in my Grid. After a good deal of playing around with UI's, I found a great setup for keeping track of my hots that's a bit complicated to set up but works amazingly.

I use both Pitbull and oRA2. The complicated part to setup is the pitbull.

oRA2 - make sure someone who has assist designates the main tanks, or whoever you want to track your hots on

Pitbull - configure the main tank section. Wipe out all the unneeded additions to the life bar - like the rage bar, casting bar, portrait, etc. Just get the life bar. Filter out all buffs and debuffs but Lifebloom, Rejuv, and Regrowth. Adjust the sizing and spacing of the bars so that the bars aren't too big and the buffs don't overlap with the next bar. Make sure things like out of range and aggro indications are turned on. Drag the bars to go sit next to Grid. I also like to flip the buffs to the show on the right side of the bar instead of the left, but it's not necessary.

Now what happens is that every time you heal a main tank, the little buff symbol for your hot displays right below the tank's name with the "clock hand moving around a circle" sort of timer. The amazing part is that I can see the status of all the hots I have on every tank at all times, and the timers are right next to where I have to put my mouse to click. It keeps track of stacks, and also shows hots from other druids but differentiates them from your own because they don't have timers on them, which is very useful for seeing how much healing the tank is getting or knowing when you can swiftmend. The ability to keep up with rolling lifebloom stacks on multiple targets in addition to rejuvs and regrowths precisely is absolutely fantastic for me. As an added bonus, this works great with mouseover macros.

Does anyone have anything similar to this that maybe is a bit easier to set up? I'm kinda curious too see if anyone else would like this sort of setup, or if there's someway to do close to this in DOTimers that I just missed.

 

Bahkauv

I´d like to see a screenshot, sounds like a good idea.

With different assignments you can put your targets in oRAs player targets for the same effect.

 

bartheke

OmniCC will post cooldown timers within icons located on your bars and duration timers within HoT icons located on any target.

GridStatusLifebloom adds a timer within grid target boxes counting down Lifebloom duration with a progressive color change indicating the number of Lifeblooms applied.

 

◊ Noressa

WoW Forums -> Haste for raiding : experience
So, how much haste is needed to reduce cast time by .5 seconds, and the possibility of 5 stack rolling lifeblooms is suddenly a reality.

Original Post by Boogsy: Now by benefactor, I am guessing that I am in fact, benefiting from the wealth of knowledge here. Or perhaps it is just benefiting from the Benefactor's Bar....a wonderful place for which I am just exploring.....and preparing to be attacked perhaps a few times
RIP Boogsy

 

Norfair

If I have to believe WoWWiki, 15.7 haste rating is 1% faster casting. So, in order for the global cooldown to go from 1.5 to 1.0, you'd have to have 33.3% faster castspeed, resulting into 33.3 * 15.7 = 523 haste rating needed.

The question is, how much added "value" would 1.0 sec global cooldown have for resto druids? We would be able to squeeze in more hots per Lifebloom rotation, but how much do we need that? My initial feeling is that the sacrifice on +healing or mana regen would not be worth the extra hots per Lifebloom rotation, even though *theoretically* you would probably have a much greater healing output capacity. Only fight where you can exploit that is RoS as you can't throw hots on enough people in p2 and p3. Furthermore this change would mean you can not only keep Lifebloom up on 3 tanks, but also Rejuvenation next to it and even have time to Swiftmend on any of them without putting your Lifebloom rolls in danger. Downside to this is of course that mana will be more of an issue, as you will burn your mana a lot faster. Would be rather interesting to play with haste rating oriented gear and see what the possibilites are, so I guess I'll go get me some pieces.

Just looked up an old post of mine about the 4 leather haste rating items, the difference between those and the commonly used healing gear is:

You gain: 30 sta, 6 int and 140 haste (8.88%)
You lose: 96 spi, 28 mp5 and 68 +heal

Big difference in mana regen mostly, while that is the thing you would need more of when using haste gear, I suppose. Of course there is more haste rating gear out there (ring, cloak off the top of my head), but I think getting the 523 needed is rather impossible.

Keep f**king that chicken.

 

Kasi

I think it just allows a resto druid to actually consider taking an item with haste if that item is otherwise attractive for them, instead of being a wasted stat.

 

Liebestod

Yea, that's a fair point... spell haste really won't help Druid single-target healing, now have it increase the rate of Lifebloom ticks and we're in business, maybe...

But it will definitely help for spot healing. It'll just be hard to do a numerical analysis of its value, though. I guess you could look at the extreme case where you're continually throwing lifeblooms to see how much spell haste helps.

 

◊ Noressa

Thank you for that! I know that there's going to be more looking into spell haste, and that number is going to be hard to hit, but allowing for 5, even 6 other targets is a pretty significant boost. I would probably only use a full haste set for things like trash, still trying to figure out where else it might be useful.

Original Post by Boogsy: Now by benefactor, I am guessing that I am in fact, benefiting from the wealth of knowledge here. Or perhaps it is just benefiting from the Benefactor's Bar....a wonderful place for which I am just exploring.....and preparing to be attacked perhaps a few times
RIP Boogsy

 

malthrin

There's also the cloth badge gear, though that may not have enough stats to outweigh the haste. The way I'm seeing this is that there are two effectiveness breakpoints. Think of a 6 second cycle as you refresh Lifebloom on the target every 6 seconds (is that actually true? duration is 7, with haste and good latency could we refresh every 6.5?). Anyway, we have our cycle length X with 0% haste, which currently allows four GCDs per cycle. The far breakpoint is the new theoretical maximum, Lifebloom every 1s for 6 GCDs per cycle, unobtainable with current gear. The middle breakpoint is probably the relevant one - how much haste would you need to get 5 GCDs per primary Lifebloom? Haste less than that won't let you do much besides get the initial stacks up slightly faster.

Travian - Resto Druid
Malthrin - Priest

 

Pyros

I could only imagine doing bloodboil with 1s lifeblooms, keeping almost the entire bloodboil groups alive for such a small mana cost. But yea, while haste will not be a useless stat, it's also to the point where we can't really get close to enough haste for it to really matter too much. Just means that I might bid min dkp to get the haste gloves from teron next time we go, and might want to spend some point on illidan cloak and so on. The annoying thing is most haste items are also not the best +heal item for their slots, I'd gladly trade my mana regen for more haste, since I often get a spriest, and thus mp5/spirit is close to useless for me, but trading healing isn't so hot.

Might change with sunwell items, and might be the reason they're changing this. Hell maybe even the tier 6.5 set might actually have a set bonus that does something for lifebloom, like reducing its GCD to by 0.2secs. Enough with the Healing Touch/Regrowth set bonuses.

 

BOHIC

EDIT: And I'm an idiot... I can't read WoW forums at work, but I got the info that the post starting this haste discussion came from in another thread. My fault. (feel free to delete this post, mods)

 

• Playered

600x7(sec) = 4200 damage.
1.6k blooms and 250 ticks = 3400~ per 7 sec, and I believe that at this level you should be healing abit more than that (buffs, Imp Spi, Amp Magic etc...)

A Resto Druid can keep up a Bloodboil group alone as it is, this haste buff changes nothing there except you might be able to roll a LB on a tank while also doing this.