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Old 07/10/08, 9:21 AM   #1336
Cube
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Dark Iron
Arawethion: Yes, healing meters don't mean anything overall, but knowing when your lifeblooms are blowing off is a pretty nice thing to have when parsing logs, especially when there are 2 resto druids in a raid.

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Old 07/10/08, 1:57 PM   #1337
Kalaghan
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Nathrezim
I was under the impressioin (based on a couple EJ threads that tested it out - I forget their names/locations now) that the bloom portion of a lifebloom actually produced 0 threat anyway, so threat related arguments when it comes to the logs are a bit of a moot point.

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Old 07/10/08, 2:02 PM   #1338
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Kalaghan View Post
I was under the impressioin (based on a couple EJ threads that tested it out - I forget their names/locations now) that the bloom portion of a lifebloom actually produced 0 threat anyway. So threat related arguments when it comes to the logs are a bit of a moot point.
Yes--I'm assuming, as is likely, that a change to the logging of the ability would also cause it to give the healer threat. There's no reason for Blizzard to rework the ability in the first place unless they think something is unintended about its behavior, and the non-threat of the bloom is probably the only such part. I'm guess they won't bother because it's so insignificant, and it's probably done the way it is because it's somehow easier to implement.

This is really not a big deal anyway; I was only pointing out that it's silly to complain about a minor mechanics freebie that we get.


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Old 07/10/08, 2:07 PM   #1339
Kalaghan
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Nathrezim
Originally Posted by Arawethion View Post
Yes--I'm assuming, as is likely, that a change to the logging of the ability would also cause it to give the healer threat. There's no reason for Blizzard to rework the ability in the first place unless they think something is unintended about its behavior, and the non-threat of the bloom is probably the only such part. I'm guess they won't bother because it's so insignificant, and it's probably done the way it is because it's somehow easier to implement.

This is really not a big deal anyway; I was only pointing out that it's silly to complain about a minor mechanics freebie that we get.
I don't see the grounds for this assumption. Why would a log change to have the healing credited to the druid casting lifebloom require the addition of threat? As it sits, it still counts as healing credited (in the log), it's just that healing is credited to the tank. It's not as though it's healing comes from an invisible source and that's the reason threat isn't produced. If the tank gets 0 threat for the healing from a lifebloom bloom, they could simply keep that mechanic and change the log to indicate the druid is credited with the healing.

Edit: Found it (or rather one of them...I thought there was another one in a druid specific thread somewhere):
Kenco: A Guide To Threat.

Last edited by Kalaghan : 07/10/08 at 2:23 PM.

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Old 07/10/08, 2:38 PM   #1340
Norfair
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Night Elf Druid
 
Grim Batol (EU)
Originally Posted by Kalaghan View Post
I don't see the grounds for this assumption. Why would a log change to have the healing credited to the druid casting lifebloom require the addition of threat? As it sits, it still counts as healing credited (in the log), it's just that healing is credited to the tank. It's not as though it's healing comes from an invisible source and that's the reason threat isn't produced. If the tank gets 0 threat for the healing from a lifebloom bloom, they could simply keep that mechanic and change the log to indicate the druid is credited with the healing.

Edit: Found it (or rather one of them...I thought there was another one in a druid specific thread somewhere):
Kenco: A Guide To Threat.
Both Earthshield and PoM require a hit for it to heal that person; an action of a "third party". For Lifebloom, the same goes for when the buff is dispelled. A quick Google got me at the Thottbot page of Unstable Affliction, which is the damage equivalent of Lifebloom. This spell also says "Your UA hits you for X damage" and does not credit it to the warlock. Because of this I think it is not really "intended" to show up like that and therefore it's only implemented this way because of technical reasons.

However, I think Blizzard didn't want to have these spells as threat generators, so they reduces the threat generated by them to 0 (I'm not sure if this is entirely true as I see a lot of priests in the Holy Priest thread saying it's a great way to give additional aggro to the tank, but Lifebloom at least doesn't (anymore?)). If they would ever "fix" the combat log as in credit the Lifebloom's bloom to the druid, I bet they'll re-instate the threat that comes with it, because it makes no sense otherwise to have only that part of the spell generating 0 threat.

This is just my personal theory though, I do not have any Blizzard sources to back it up.


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Old 07/10/08, 2:53 PM   #1341
Kalaghan
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Nathrezim
Originally Posted by Norfair View Post
Both Earthshield and PoM require a hit for it to heal that person; an action of a "third party". For Lifebloom, the same goes for when the buff is dispelled. A quick Google got me at the Thottbot page of Unstable Affliction, which is the damage equivalent of Lifebloom. This spell also says "Your UA hits you for X damage" and does not credit it to the warlock. Because of this I think it is not really "intended" to show up like that and therefore it's only implemented this way because of technical reasons.

However, I think Blizzard didn't want to have these spells as threat generators, so they reduces the threat generated by them to 0 (I'm not sure if this is entirely true as I see a lot of priests in the Holy Priest thread saying it's a great way to give additional aggro to the tank, but Lifebloom at least doesn't (anymore?)). If they would ever "fix" the combat log as in credit the Lifebloom's bloom to the druid, I bet they'll re-instate the threat that comes with it, because it makes no sense otherwise to have only that part of the spell generating 0 threat.

This is just my personal theory though, I do not have any Blizzard sources to back it up.
Maybe, but it also seems that a lot of the testing indicates lifebloom ticks to actually generate less threat than they 'should' based on the standard /2 then /(# of mobs) formula. This leads me to believe that Blizzard intentionally chooses to make certain spells produce less threat than standard mechanics indicate they should. Thus, it seems the decision has already been made that lifebloom produces 0 threat (i.e. it's a concious decision). The combat log is merely a superficial element (i.e. it has 0 bearing on gameplay) and so changing it to credit the healer in no way necessitates a threat change mechanic in my opinion (since they've already shown they don't apply the standard threat rule 100% of the time).

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Old 07/10/08, 2:57 PM   #1342
giansm
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Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
This combat log stuff is a really silly discussion, especially since it's just speculation about how Blizzard's code may or may not be written and how that might influence a combat log change which may or may not happen, along with a sprinkling of vague guesses about Blizzard's intentions for good measure. Speculation of this sort is probably best stopped completely or confined to one of the threat related threads, there's an old one here that was talking about this sort of thing ([Druid] Different threat produced by different heals?) which may be appropriate.

I don't mind seeing a post or two about side topics like this but it's been almost the entire page so far, and it's probably a bad idea to clutter up an already-large theorycrafting thread with speculation of this nature.

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Old 07/10/08, 4:49 PM   #1343
edrialyse
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Alleria
I have a lvl 70 Resto druid, and I'm not sure as to whether this would be a good place to post or not, but here is my question.

During the Gurtogg Bloodboil fight, I have heard two different options on what to do if the tree gets Fel Raged.

Option 1: stay in tree form and heal yourself, using Barkskin

Option 2: Equip (Insert Stamina staff), pop Barkskin, and go Bear.

Which of these is actually the better idea, and for option 2, I have been trying to make a macro that will do all three. I can only seem to get two of the spell casts to work, and the other will not, the macro saying "That skill is not ready yet."

This is what my macro looks like:
/equip Wildfury Greatstaff
/cast Dire Bear Form(Shapeshift)
/cast Barkskin

The issue seems to be with the GCD, is there a code line I can put in to make it recognize the GCD and complete the full set listed?
I'm not that good at macros yet, so I appreciate any help.

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Old 07/10/08, 5:01 PM   #1344
SilentCom
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Eonar
Originally Posted by edrialyse View Post
Option 1: stay in tree form and heal yourself, using Barkskin
If you can heal yourself all the better.

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Old 07/10/08, 5:04 PM   #1345
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
More specifically, the gains from being in Bear form are small compared to the Fel Rage buff itself. Your amplified HoTs on yourself are probably worth more.


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Old 07/10/08, 7:24 PM   #1346
calderstrake
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Troll Druid
 
Exodar
Originally Posted by edrialyse View Post
This is what my macro looks like:
/equip Wildfury Greatstaff
/cast Dire Bear Form(Shapeshift)
/cast Barkskin
In a macro like this, you should always put the weapon change last as it will restart the GCD. Also, casting Barkskin will cancel Dire Bear form. For example:

/cast Barkskin
/cast Dire Bear Form(Shapeshift)
/equip Wildfury Greatstaff

See if this works properly.

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Old 07/11/08, 1:53 AM   #1347
tylanthea
Von Kaiser
 
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Tylanthea
Night Elf Druid
 
Medivh
Originally Posted by trismegistus View Post
In a macro like this, you should always put the weapon change last as it will restart the GCD. Also, casting Barkskin will cancel Dire Bear form. For example:

/cast Barkskin
/cast Dire Bear Form(Shapeshift)
/equip Wildfury Greatstaff

See if this works properly.
This wouldn't work either. Barkskin triggers the GCD, as well as shifting into bear form.

The most you could do is cast Barkskin while Gurtogg is running at you, and shift+equip on a separate macro, although there are addons that equip weapons for you when you switch forms.. which means that you'd have to Barkskin->shift
and hope the addon works properly.

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Old 07/12/08, 9:06 AM   #1348
Daedalix
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Draenei Shaman
 
Kilrogg
About Gurtogg/Felrage

Could some of the T6 restos say what they actually do when you get Felraged? Do you just roll LB/RJ and SM or go Bear for the duration? I've been thinking about asking since I'm to that point and I tried both. When I tried to heal myself I was getting vent-shouts "go bear..." so I did.

I came to the conclusion that barkskin doesn't last long enough by itself and going bear would make me basically armor capped and Frenzied Regeneration would keep me up just as well as heals (but only for 10 secs), but I haven't gotten the opportunity to test either very much.

Couldn't find an answer to this question in either the BB or this thread thus far.

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Old 07/12/08, 11:07 AM   #1349
SilentCom
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Eonar
You pop barkskin and start stacking LB and a rejuv on yourself. If you get low swiftmend yourself first and then pop a healthstone the second time if you get low. Once all your hots are up you can try to cast regrowths on yourself as well.

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Old 07/12/08, 11:07 AM   #1350
Jasyla
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
<aus>
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Daedalix View Post
About Gurtogg/Felrage

Could some of the T6 restos say what they actually do when you get Felraged? Do you just roll LB/RJ and SM or go Bear for the duration? I've been thinking about asking since I'm to that point and I tried both. When I tried to heal myself I was getting vent-shouts "go bear..." so I did.

I came to the conclusion that barkskin doesn't last long enough by itself and going bear would make me basically armor capped and Frenzied Regeneration would keep me up just as well as heals (but only for 10 secs), but I haven't gotten the opportunity to test either very much.

Couldn't find an answer to this question in either the BB or this thread thus far.
I stay in tree form/caster form for the duration of the fel rage, stack LBs and use Rejuv/SM and Regrowth liberally. NS/HT can also be very useful. I try to save barkskin for the last 12 seconds of the fel rage.

Your heals are worth more to you than the extra armor from bear form and frenzied regeneration, in addition to only lasting 10 seconds, doesn't heal for that much.

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