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Old 10/28/08, 12:46 AM   #1471
giansm
Bald Bull
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
It's spellpower * 1.88. Bonus healing and bonus damage have been merged into one stat so there's no sense in thinking about them separately anymore. And anyway, it's best to get away from thinking about "old healing" since it's never coming back.

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Old 10/28/08, 2:27 AM   #1472
tylanthea
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Tylanthea
Night Elf Druid
 
Medivh
Originally Posted by giansm View Post
It's spellpower * 1.88. Bonus healing and bonus damage have been merged into one stat so there's no sense in thinking about them separately anymore. And anyway, it's best to get away from thinking about "old healing" since it's never coming back.
My confusion arises from the fact that in Tree Form, our spellpower and healingpower has different values (Bonuses from imp ToL, etc), which does not conform with the spellpower * 1.88 (spellpower / 0.53) formula.

Could someone shed some light on this?

Giansm: Do I just do healpower * 1.88 then? This can't be right?

Last edited by tylanthea : 10/28/08 at 2:28 AM. Reason: Stuff

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Old 10/28/08, 4:51 AM   #1473
Norfair
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Night Elf Druid
 
Grim Batol (EU)
Originally Posted by tylanthea View Post
My confusion arises from the fact that in Tree Form, our spellpower and healingpower has different values (Bonuses from imp ToL, etc), which does not conform with the spellpower * 1.88 (spellpower / 0.53) formula.

Could someone shed some light on this?

Giansm: Do I just do healpower * 1.88 then? This can't be right?
Current spellpower * 1.88 = old +healing

However, they still track healing power and spellpower independently, probably because they want to be able to give buffs to healing only in some situations. This applies to the ToL buff as well (only buffs healing power, not spellpower), although in this case it wouldn't have really mattered much because you can't dps in ToL. I think Thorns now scales with spellpower, so this would be an example of a spell not benefitting from the extra healing power you gain in ToL.


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Old 10/28/08, 8:22 AM   #1474
Lorrianne
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Aszune (EU)
Re: Healing Touch Glyph

Before Patch 3.0.2 was introduced and perhaps somwhere in this forum, there was talk about "Dreamstate Healers" healers who relied on healing touch as their main heal, in essence a Slow casting Flash healer. At the time i thought it was a ridiculous spec for raiding, given the fact that COH priests and even Paladins (who are the new stars of healing) would simply beat you to it.

Anyways, Healing Touch Glyph

After patch 3.0.2, after seeing Wildgrowths ineffectiveness other than premptively casting it on warstomped/soulcharged raids or when 5 melee/tanks are taking constant raid damage and the HoT of Lifebloom being nerfed and its Mana cost increased, i decided to try this Glyph in raids for the purpose of super fast trash mob healing and on bosses that focus their damage on single targets.

Currently, if your interest (and shame on you) is to top the overall healing (and overhealing) chart or try to atleast, then this is the glyph for you. Yes HoTs will always have their uses especially in the two scenarios i described above, and when tanks are taking a bit of a pummeling, but if you are bored of the tiresome lifebloom spam then i suggest you grab this Glyph and the wildgrowth talent, resocket all your gems to pure spirit gems and watch yourself go oom.

I have the full 5 talents in Naturalist, tranquil Spirit, and empowered touch (Still a tree too) and i've gone for 10 points in Balance which include Moonglow, and Natures Majesty. I have around 33 Haste rating and i have to say i am constantly loving it.

And yes, I go OOM. Alot! Thank goodness for Innervate, and since i use it when i am practically oom, i effectively have over x2 my mana pool (damn the mana pot cooldown)

The emphasis on the build is to use Healing touch as your main healing spell. In raids of 25, Wildgrowth will perhaps do about 10-20% of your healing, depending on who you take, be it CoH specced priests or Shamans.

However put it this way, and this is by no means a measure of skill (since this resto druid has saved us on a number of occassions when we recieve a soulcharge from Archimonde). We currently use two resto druids in our raid setup, with CoH priests, shammies etc.

In the healing charts, the person at the bottom of overall healing with about 4-5% of the healing raids, is our Wildgrowth spammer. I have managed to reach the number 1 spot on a number of occassions ( but not on all boss fights since Paladins rule, or they should and if they don't, you better ask them why not).

Its a wonderful change at the very least, but it might not be to everyones liking due to the Mana issues i've talked about.

Gift of the Earthmother, one of the deep restoration talents, use to give your hots the ability to replenish some of your mana provided you cast a spell like healing touch on them. This has been removed ( Or maybe i am imagining it since i am in a dreamstate). However it would be most welcome if they brought the aspect of this talent back, since i think it would sort out the oom situation nicely. (and yes i know about Replenish, and in short, its poor).

Any response from your fine well educated selves would be most welcome.

Last edited by Lorrianne : 10/30/08 at 9:04 AM.

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Old 10/28/08, 8:43 AM   #1475
Norfair
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Grim Batol (EU)
Originally Posted by Lorrianne View Post
And yes, I go OOM. Alot! Thank goodness for Innervate, and since i use it when i am practically oom, i effectively have over x2 my mana pool (damn the mana pot cooldown)
You are a Night Elf. Unless they hotfixed this in the last week or so since I last tried it, you can avoid the new pot rule by using Shadowmeld right after you take a pot - the cooldown will start running. I've managed to pot 2 times in a single encounter this way. Granted, this is not a reliable way of mana regeneration as they will probably fix this asap. But until then, Shadowmeld is the best PvE racial ability in the game.


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Old 10/28/08, 9:39 AM   #1476
• malthrin
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Lorrianne View Post
However put it this way, and this is by no means a measure of skill( since this resto druid has saved us on a number of occassions when we recieve a soulcharge from Archimonde). We currently use two resto druids in our raid setup, with CoH priests, shammies etc.

In the healing charts, the person at the bottom of overall healing with about 4-5% of the healing raids, is our Wildgrowth spammer. I have managed to reach the number 1 spot on a number of occassions ( but not on all boss fights since Paladins rule, or they should and if they don't, you better ask them why not).
Your Wild Growth spammer is doing it wrong. This spell is preposterously effective for dealing with any sort of AoE damage.

The healing you're doing with the HT glyph is basically Flash Heal spamming, like used to be the standard back in BWL. You've touched on the obvious problem - it burns your mana like it's been soaked in gasoline. Now consider that the fights in 3.0 are short, and we mostly overgear them, meaning that any mana issues we have now will be much more severe in WotLK when raid fights actually last a decent amount of time again. Even if you could make the mana work by gemming spirit and gimping your +heal, I still wouldn't bring an HT Druid; Paladins can do it harder (bigger, faster HL) and Priests can do it longer (and not gimp their other tools to do it).

Anyway, here's an example WWS of what you can do with Wild Growth (5/0/56): Wow Web Stats The thing with Wild Growth is that spamming it just wastes your mana; like any other hot, you just need to refresh it in a timely fashion to keep the numbers rolling.

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Old 10/28/08, 10:27 AM   #1477
Lorrianne
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Aszune (EU)
Our Wildgrowth Spammer is doing it Wrong

Oh i totally agree about your wildgrowth spammer comment.

Some interesting data there, especially on Felmyst who we are combating next week. You've just given me an idea about raid setup, many thanks.

Yes the old ways of Tree healing still rock on some fights, and i still remember the days when one could Keep lifeblooms on 4 Melee/Tanks and rule the healing roster and still have enough mana spare to donate to the Priests still stuck in Patch 2.3 (the poor sods). However as the post quite clearly mentions, its a spec designed for those who are tad tired of the the lifebloom spam and who have itchy fingers, and granted its not a sensible spec for raiding, but BT/MH is pretty pitiful now and it only took us one night to kill Kalecgos and Brutallus with all the strats/guides out there.

The issue with Wildgrowth, as one will find initially, its still a hot and its two/seven ticks do half the healing of a non crit COH, and with a Free for All healing attitude in our raid, especially on trash mobs, you'll find your preemptive healing shamans and your CoH priests overhealing your hots, it was like the old issue that some people found with Lifebloom/Rejuv...and back in those days i use to raid as a COH priest and see an old resto Druid last on the meters.

Our pallies also lack haste, so atm its not an issue beating them to the crunch, and yes i know its a wrong attitude to take.

Some lovely stats there on WWS, you sir are indeed a wonderful example to all Wildgrowth Trees out there.

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Old 10/28/08, 10:19 PM   #1478
tylanthea
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Tylanthea
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Medivh
Originally Posted by Norfair View Post
Current spellpower * 1.88 = old +healing

However, they still track healing power and spellpower independently, probably because they want to be able to give buffs to healing only in some situations. This applies to the ToL buff as well (only buffs healing power, not spellpower), although in this case it wouldn't have really mattered much because you can't dps in ToL. I think Thorns now scales with spellpower, so this would be an example of a spell not benefitting from the extra healing power you gain in ToL.
I know Current spellpower * 1.88 OR Current spellpower / 0.53 = old +healing.

What I'm getting at is how I'm supposed to conver the Current +healing (tracked independently from spellpower, as you pointed out, and I've been trying to point out) into the old +healing. I don't know why I'm obsessing over this, but I just need to compare my pre-patch and current stats to see how much a difference the new talents made in terms of raw +healing, so that I can play around with my spirit values.

What I'm getting at is.. the "healing power" that is tracked independently from spellpower in patch 3.x, how do you convert that to the old +healing?

Old heal = Current heal * 1.88??

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Old 10/29/08, 4:03 AM   #1479
Norfair
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Night Elf Druid
 
Grim Batol (EU)
Originally Posted by tylanthea View Post
I know Current spellpower * 1.88 OR Current spellpower / 0.53 = old +healing.

What I'm getting at is how I'm supposed to conver the Current +healing (tracked independently from spellpower, as you pointed out, and I've been trying to point out) into the old +healing. I don't know why I'm obsessing over this, but I just need to compare my pre-patch and current stats to see how much a difference the new talents made in terms of raw +healing, so that I can play around with my spirit values.

What I'm getting at is.. the "healing power" that is tracked independently from spellpower in patch 3.x, how do you convert that to the old +healing?

Old heal = Current heal * 1.88??
Yes, that should be right. Are you getting "weird" numbers or something?


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Old 10/30/08, 1:35 AM   #1480
Lon
Glass Joe
 
Troll Shaman
 
Dath'Remar
Originally Posted by Norfair View Post
Yes, that should be right. Are you getting "weird" numbers or something?

I would have thought it would be more like below as the additional healing effects are not adding anything to your current spellpower?

(Current Spellpower [damage] * 1.88) + (additions to healing value) = Total

Last edited by Lon : 10/30/08 at 1:36 AM. Reason: additional text

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Old 10/30/08, 9:42 AM   #1481
Rhaegal
Don Flamenco
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Zul'Jin
No, because the coefficients for heals are based off the new spell power scale, so any bonuses to healing spell power specifically (like Imp. Tree of Life) will use the same scale.

Stand back! I'm going to try SCIENCE!

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Old 10/31/08, 1:27 AM   #1482
tylanthea
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Tylanthea
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Medivh
Originally Posted by Rhaegal View Post
No, because the coefficients for heals are based off the new spell power scale, so any bonuses to healing spell power specifically (like Imp. Tree of Life) will use the same scale.
What about healing power based on spirit? :/ (Like Imp. Tree of Life)

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Old 10/31/08, 1:59 AM   #1483
Anaram
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Lightning's Blade (EU)
Originally Posted by tylanthea View Post
What about healing power based on spirit? :/ (Like Imp. Tree of Life)
Those affect healing spell power so it's on the new scale. Same with amplify magic etc.

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Old 10/31/08, 3:10 AM   #1484
tylanthea
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Tylanthea
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Medivh
Originally Posted by Anaram View Post
Those affect healing spell power so it's on the new scale. Same with amplify magic etc.
I think each post is just confusing me more.. I'll just do some calculations and come up with a conclusion when i have some time.

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Old 10/31/08, 4:34 AM   #1485
Norfair
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Night Elf Druid
 
Grim Batol (EU)
Originally Posted by tylanthea View Post
I think each post is just confusing me more.. I'll just do some calculations and come up with a conclusion when i have some time.
It really isn't that hard. Currently spellpower and healing power are "the same". If you get extra spellpower on your gear, both values will go up. The only reason there are 2 values in your char screen and not 1, is because this way it is possible to buff healing ONLY, like improved ToL does. So what imp. ToL does, is convert your spirit to spellpower, but ONLY apply it to your healing spellpower because they do not want to buff your "dps" spellpower as well. I am sure there will be other buffs in WotLK or in other talents that do exactly the same thing: only buff your healing value so that you don't receive a dps increase, like for example Earthliving weapon ("Imbue the Shaman's weapon with earthen life. Increases healing done by 110 and each heal has a 20% chance to proc Earthliving on the target, healing an additional 456 over 12 sec. Lasts 30 minutes.")


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