Feral Powershifting: macros, thresholds, mana management - Page 2

Mijae · 05/17/08, 6:47 AM

Raffy, just doing some testing with Mangle spamming the macro:

#showtooltop Mangle (Cat)()
/run ps(15)
/cast [noform] Cat Form; Mangle (Cat)()

I noticed the following output:

Edgy's FeralKit: 0 energy wasted.
Edgy's FeralKit: 0 energy wasted over 1 shift.
Edgy's FeralKit: 12 energy wasted.
Edgy's FeralKit: 11 energy wasted.
Edgy's FeralKit: 23 energy wasted over 2 shifts (11.5 energy per shift).
Edgy's FeralKit: 15 energy wasted.
Edgy's FeralKit: 15 energy wasted over 1 shift.
Edgy's FeralKit: 16 energy wasted.
Edgy's FeralKit: 16 energy wasted over 1 shift.

My threshold was set to 15 and I got a powershift at 16?

Sadirin · 05/17/08, 10:13 AM

I tested the mangle-macro with the immortal mobs in the blasted lands at the dark portal and got some strange numbers.

used macro:
#showtooltip
/cast [stealth] Pounce
/run if pws then local f="Cat Form";f=GetSpellCooldown(f)>0 or UnitMana('player')>14 or not IsUsableSpell(f) or CancelPlayerBuff(f) end
/cast [form] Mangle (Cat)()
/stopmacro [form]
/use [alt] item:22838
/cast Cat Form

Trinkets & amulettes: shattered sun, shard, dragonspine

Normal cat equipment, lvl 57 mob, around 10min of battle, NO Powershifting (for control)
875 DPS, 40x Bloodlust (2T4), 15 Clearcasting (Omen of Clarity), 11 to 13 trinket/amulett-procs

Test 1, same setup, WITH powershifting macro
864 DPS, 19x Furor (Shift), 32x Bloodlust (2T4), 21 Clearcasting (Omen of Clarity), 8 to 12 trinket/amulett-procs

Test 2, same setup, WITH powershifting macro
866 DPS, 19x Furor (Shift), 42x Bloodlust (2T4), 21 Clearcasting (Omen of Clarity), 12 to 13 trinket/amulett-procs

=> I got hundreds of extra energy and doing less damage? Why? Coincidence? Not enough time to get viable results? Or was the test setup not good, because i was just spamming mangle (which brought me to 0 mana in seconds). Or are these macros just usable with a wolfshead helm?

Deninkle · 05/17/08, 11:31 AM

It seems counter-intuitive that you would get less dps with more energy. However, to be sure it might be a good idea to record how many white/specials you use and how many of them were hits/misses/crits.

Who knows why it went down? Firstly, were you using 2t6 so that mangle has an energy requirement of 35? Astrylian said that when he spam tested powershifting on some ogres that his hit timer didn't reset, so it would be great to get more evidence for this.

Sadirin · 05/17/08, 12:16 PM

No 2T6, just 2T4 and badge equipment.
Stats: 3625 AP, 42,35% Crit, 137 Hit, 11 Expertise
Recording: recap 4.04

Test 1 (NO powershifting macro): fight time 9min 40sec, 332 melee hits, 269 melee crits (44,8%), 96 mangle hits, 94, mangle crit (49,5%), no misses

Test 2: (WITH powershifting macro): fight time 9min 40sec, 307melee hits, 237 melee crits (43,6%), 100 mangle hits, 31 mangle crit (44,8%), no misses

Test 3: (WITH powershifting macro): fight time 8min 53sec, 327 melee hits, 296 melee crits (47,5%), 119 mangle hits, 85 mangle crit (41,7%), no misses

Yes, small differences in fight time, but it should not make such a huge difference in DPS, or?

raffy · 05/17/08, 1:09 PM

Originally Posted by Mijae

Raffy, just doing some testing with Mangle spamming the macro:

#showtooltop Mangle (Cat)()
/run ps(15)
/cast [noform] Cat Form; Mangle (Cat)()

I noticed the following output:

Edgy's FeralKit: 0 energy wasted.
Edgy's FeralKit: 0 energy wasted over 1 shift.
Edgy's FeralKit: 12 energy wasted.
Edgy's FeralKit: 11 energy wasted.
Edgy's FeralKit: 23 energy wasted over 2 shifts (11.5 energy per shift).
Edgy's FeralKit: 15 energy wasted.
Edgy's FeralKit: 15 energy wasted over 1 shift.
Edgy's FeralKit: 16 energy wasted.
Edgy's FeralKit: 16 energy wasted over 1 shift.

My threshold was set to 15 and I got a powershift at 16?

Redownload the code, you have an old version that didn't support passing the threshold via macro interface (its probably using the default in /fk ps energy which is 18.) The newer code also makes a bit more sense, powershifts report the net gain of energy, so it's a bit more logical.

Deninkle · 05/17/08, 2:01 PM

Originally Posted by Sadirin

No 2T6, just 2T4 and badge equipment.

Because 2t6 reduces Mangle to 35 energy, in your case, you would want to increase your limit to 20 energy.

Originally Posted by Sadirin

Test 1 (NO powershifting macro): fight time 9min 40sec, 332 melee hits, 269 melee crits (44,8%), 96 mangle hits, 94, mangle crit (49,5%), no misses

Test 2: (WITH powershifting macro): fight time 9min 40sec, 307melee hits, 237 melee crits (43,6%), 100 mangle hits, 31 mangle crit (44,8%), no misses

Test 3: (WITH powershifting macro): fight time 8min 53sec, 327 melee hits, 296 melee crits (47,5%), 119 mangle hits, 85 mangle crit (41,7%), no misses

I don't get the same crit percentage for mangle you do for Test 2. Typo maybe?

It's really hard to tell why your dps would have gone down. There are many factors. Crit rate, average damage, debuffs on target, armour of target, when you get your 2t4 procs and trinket/amulet procs.. did you get lucky with the stacking of procs.. did one proc more than the other.. Getting something like a WWS report would be really helpful because it contains pretty much everything. Although removing your proccable trinkets/amulet would make it easier to tell.

Back to the macros... I was thinking that there is some possible optimisation of the script:

/run local f="Cat Form";f=GetSpellCooldown(f)>0 or UnitMana('player')<XXX and IsUsableSpell(f) and CancelPlayerBuff(f)
/stopmacro [form]
/cast Cat Form

I've bolded the changes.

This should mean that you can set the energy limits more precisely. I've sometimes had strange energy gains that mean I have 39 energy when I was expecting 40 energy after an energy tick. I noticed the mangle energy cutoff was set to >14.. so if I had had that strange fractional energy gain so my energy was really 14.5, I would not powershift and I would also be unable to mangle next tick.

The second change was just shortening "not IsUsableSpell(f) or" to "IsUsableSpell(f) and".

EDIT: Although I haven't used FeralToolKit yet, nor am I a Lua programmer... The fractional energy gain problem doesn't seem to be an issue for it.

raffy · 05/17/08, 2:28 PM

I've been posting in the Feral Druid thread but I think I'll migrate my comments here:

A bunch of people have been asking what the energy regen cycle looks like after a shift, so in the lastest version of FeralKit, you can use /fk ps ticks to enable printing the energy time deltas.

Enter Cat Form
Energy Tick [0]: 578 ms
Energy Tick [40]: 705 ms
Energy Tick [59]: 827 ms
Energy Tick [80]: 2077 ms
Energy Tick [100]: 1985 ms

I can't figure out any relation with the first tick, for my latency of 100 ms, it looks like 400-600 ms so maybe 500 ms +/- latency?
The furor tick is probably aligned to the clock, since it ranges from 400 to 1000 ms.
The last tick is 2000 ms minus the previous two update deltas.

It might be interesting to model the delay + furor tick, instead of just using 1.5 seconds often you could gain energy in less than 1.5 seconds (although I guess since you're still inside the gcd, it wouldn't help, although this might allow better shifting during heroism, for example.)

And just for kicks, it might be interesting to observe the +/- 3 energy gains that seem to randomly occur, and to see if there is any pattern.

http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKit.zip

-- /fk ps tick to enable energy tick watching (warning, its spammy)
-- if /fk proc terror is enabled, when combat ends, it will summarize the procs uptime for the combat duration
-- /fk bear crit will tell you if you are crittable against a 73

Edit:
@Deninkle: all wow energy gains are integers.

• Krish · 05/17/08, 2:28 PM

I am seeing some strange behavior while testing the newest version of the addon. In using the mangle macro, once I run out of mana, it will not powershift me again. Even after my mana has been restored to full, this issue persists. Any thoughts?

raffy · 05/17/08, 2:41 PM

Originally Posted by Krish

I am seeing some strange behavior while testing the newest version of the addon. In using the mangle macro, once I run out of mana, it will not powershift me again. Even after my mana has been restored to full, this issue persists. Any thoughts?

@Krish
Redownload to get the latest version. I didn't have enough samples in my moving average before, so it could easily get corrupted and the proc probability would be too high and thus prevent all powershifting after a few lucky Bloodlust procs.

When in doubt, redownload because I probably released a new version :p

@ecopsorn
I'll localize the addon now. Actually, I think I can use spellID's for most of these, but in the mean time, can you provide translations for:

"Cat Form"
"Bloodlust"
"Omen of Clarity"
"Clearcasting"
"Primal Instinct"
"Dire Bear Form"
"Mangle"
"Cat Form"
"Aquatic Form"
"Travel Form"

• Krish · 05/17/08, 3:02 PM

Originally Posted by raffy

@Krish
Redownload to get the latest version. I didn't have enough samples in my moving average before, so it could easily get corrupted and the proc probability would be too high and thus prevent all powershifting after a few lucky Bloodlust procs.

When in doubt, redownload because I probably released a new version :p

@ecopsorn
I'll localize the addon now. Actually, I think I can use spellID's for most of these, but in the mean time, can you provide translations for:

"Cat Form"
"Bloodlust"
"Omen of Clarity"
"Clearcasting"
"Primal Instinct"
"Dire Bear Form"
"Mangle"
"Cat Form"
"Aquatic Form"
"Travel Form"

Even with the newest version, I'm still seeing the same issue. At some point after I've run OOM, the macro stops powershifting entirely.

raffy · 05/17/08, 3:21 PM

Originally Posted by Krish

Even with the newest version, I'm still seeing the same issue. At some point after I've run OOM, the macro stops powershifting entirely.

Can you do a "/fk debug" and post the proc percentages?

Edit: also try it with "/fk ps extrapolate" set to off

• Krish · 05/17/08, 3:28 PM

What does /fk ps extrapolate actually do?

Odas · 05/17/08, 3:30 PM

When I download feralkit and copy it into my addons folder it gives me an error, "The system cannot find the file specified" and it does not copy the lib folder over. I was only copying the FeralKit folder and not the Feralkit file or the MACOSX file or folder. Should I copy those as well?

Tinweasele · 05/17/08, 3:34 PM

Im toying around the idea of putting my threshold at 22 and using wolfshead, i guess the question is how much could i do to mitigate the mana drain incurred, more specificially does JOW work in cat form and what is the MP5 gain from it?

raffy · 05/17/08, 3:40 PM

Originally Posted by Krish

What does /fk ps extrapolate actually do?

If factors in the time since the last Bloodlust proc and the number of hits that have occurred since to determine wether the chances of landing a proc are high enough to consider not shifting.

I adjusted the switch to 99% and also moved the GetEnergyAfter(1.5) code into the extrapolate function.

So, in pseudocode:

energy = (current energy)
if (/fk ps extrapolate) then
   if (we get an energy tick within 1.5 sec)
      energy = energy + 20
   end
   if (there is a 99% chance of bloodlust procing)
      energy = energy + 20
   end
end

Redownload and see if it fixes it. (I assume that turning /fk ps extrapolate off fixed the issue?)

I also localized the spells (not the output) in this version so it should work with any language.

Edit: it seems even 99% isn't gonna do it, so I think I need to change the code since once the number of hits (n) is really high, 1-(1-p)^n will be 1 due to precision errors.