madniac

Yeah its help.Thanks.

 

ecopsorn

@raffy

Could you implement an Options-Window for FeralKit? I hate using text commands especially when lots of options are available. Would be great if we'd have a window with ticks and sliders to adjust all the options we'd like. Like this it also would be easier to see what FeralKit actually can do.

Hope you will work that suggestion in

 

Allev

I think Raffy's point is that, every little change/debugging thing has more to do with the addon itself, and it's supposed to grow into a general-purpose thing rather than a powershift-only thing. As such, it deserves its own thread (much like Rawr) when it gets that functionality.

And it's not really on-point to discuss "your mod crashes when I do X"; a mod isn't required for this. I'll be changing the main post once Raffy creates his new thread.

More on-topic: Mijae, I really like what you're doing in trying to find optimal cycles. I definitely think it's valuable to find best 1-shift, 2-shift, and 3-shift cycles, assuming no misses; I think it's also going to be necesary, though, to process what happens on a miss: should you try to shift back into your cycle anyway, even though you might waste more energy in doing so? Or do you naturally fall into the same cycle with proper thresholds after a miss?

 

Mijae

Yeah, I've been thinking about that too. I've been trying to figure out a good way to model powershifting for my spreadsheet. A basic model with no powershifting is only dependent on energy regen. The cycle time is just variable based on energy required to get at least 4 cp. In that case misses don't really matter because it's just energy loss, so again it just changes the cycle time.

Initially I just implemented a shift as an average energy gain, but I'm not sure if that's accurate. In addition, some of the set cycles with more than 1 shift per cycle end up getting bound by GCD. A miss could change the dynamic of the cycle by quite a bit. Because of this, I think haste might end up becoming more valuable if it can reduce the GCD time, something I haven't factored in yet.

I'm also starting to question the general rule of always wait for enough energy to Rip, then Mangle before the first tick. Rip's goodness is the high damage per energy cost. By my calculations, it is higher DPS to miss one tick being Mangled than it is to wait for that tick with Rip not applied at all. In the same manner, the general guide of always wait for 4+ CP might not be optimal either. I believe the main reason this argument came about was to counter the notion of always waiting for 5 CP. However, even a 1 CP Rip is higher DPE than a mangled Shred. If your gear isn't good enough to consistently build 4+ CP (or you get unlucky with crits), I think it's better to just always use it at 12 seconds.

All these changes I have floating around in my head I can't seem to model well yet though. I've been wanting to upload an update to my spreadsheet, but I keep second-guessing changes.

Either way, I think figuring out the best standard cycles assuming no misses is the best way to get an initial idea of how good changes like Wolfshead Helm really are. What I'm dreading to model next is mana consumption. I just don't see how it would be possible to maintain the shifts per cycle that would be required to make that helm worth using.

 

Tinweasele

I did some preliminary work on the mana drain issue mentioned above, it actually isnt AS bad as most would think, to make the wolfshead helm worth it. Lets say 2 shifts per cycle (12 seconds) with improved shapeshifting, and we try as hard as possible to put those 2 shifts at the begginning of the cycle.

1200 mana (2shifts) every 12 seconds -500 mp5
improved blessing of wisdom(assuming 4 pallies) 49 mp5
mana spring totem ( enhancement shaman) 50 mp5
JOW ( assuming it works in forms) 150 mp5 ( 50 mp every other attack, 16 attacks per cycle)
fel mana potion every cooldown 133 mp5
Outside FSR regen ~120 mana every 12 seconds or 50 mp5

or a total of -68 mp5 for double shifting EVERY cycle, which is NOT that bad. I appoligize if my math is off, totally paper napkin here.

 

Allev

Still, short-term cycles are still valuable even if they're not maintainable, Mijae-- for instance, Illidan traps, end RoS P3, Kalec enrage (if you're not on tank/decurse duty), or simply DPS bursting for a kill when your predicted shifting has been less than what you'd have thought.

Tinweasele-- that's a lot of assumptions that don't often hold true. I'm guessing you assume JOW and 4 pallies because you have a ret pally keeping those up-- which, unless you have had one for awhile, may not be possible in your guild. You may not be in the melee group, or have a shaman at all (i.e. in the tank group, even while DPSing). There may be nights where I'd get all of the above, but I can typically only depend on OO5SR and potions (with the others possible, but not common).

Also, I'd like to see answers about OO5SR regen and JOW in forms-- IIRC, the first isn't interrupted by shifting, the second is?

 

Melthu

Haste does not reduce the GCD of melee attacks. Taken from the 2.4.0 patch notes:

Spell Haste: Spell haste now reduces the global cooldown on spells, down to a minimum of 1 second. This change does not apply to melee and ranged abilities.

 

Tinweasele

It is interesting to note that heroism/bloodlust does however reduce the casting time of powershifting making bloodlusted cycles... well quite honestly amazing if you are doing a lot of powershifts (high threshold). We COULD use yellow gems for spell haste but i HIGHLY doubt they would provide more dps gain than +agi or +agi/hit gems.

 

Mijae

I'm trying to refine how I implement GCD. Can anyone confirm or can test with high latency the possible delays between using abilities? There a few places I can see bing an issue and have direct impact on cycles.

A) Time between when energy is available and ability used. This might actually be a "reaction time" rather than server latency.

B) Time between when the button for an ability is pressed and the server executes the ability. This would be true "latency time" for the command to reach the server. I'm assuming GCD starts here.

C) Time between when GCD ends and next special is available for use. This might be both a combination of reaction time and latency. For casters, they can actually press the button for the next cast before the cast time of the previous spell finishes. However, is this only true if cast time is greater than GCD time? Does the server tell the client when GCD ends and next ability can be used, or does the client control this?

D) Are macro commands executed by the client or server (and/or both)?

For reference, assuming 100ms latency:
0.0 Tick
0.1 Reaction (A)
0.1 Shred (butten pressed)
0.2 Latency (B)
0.2 Shred (server ack, GCD starts)
1.2 GCD ends
1.3 Reaction (C)
1.3 Powershift (butten pressed)
1.4 Latency (B)
1.4 Powershift (server ack, GCD starts)
2.4 GCD ends
3.4 Tick

Do people with high latency experience problems using more than 1 ability between energy ticks? This could make powershifting very difficult or even impossible for them. If commands are executed client side, I would think they could get many energy ticks just before the shift actually happens. If server side, the tick might occur first and then just never shift.

Again, assuming 500ms latency:
0.0 Tick
0.1 Reaction (A)
0.1 Shred (butten pressed)
0.6 Latency (B)
0.6 Shred (server ack, GCD starts)
1.6 GCD ends
1.7 Reaction (C)
1.7 Powershift (butten pressed)
2.0 Tick
2.2 Latency (B)
2.2 Powershift (might not occur if processed server side, or tick lost)

 

Allev

I can verify that the macro executes based on client-side data when the button is pressed. In other words, I can push the button before the tick, the tick will happen in my UI, then my client shifts. (This happens if I'm going from 80 energy to <12 spamming attacks).

On the topic of GCDs, you might want to look at the resto druids for instant-cast GCD length-- for instance, resto druids need differing levels of haste depending on their latency to reach 4 or 5 lifeblooms per 7 second cycle, which I can only assume means that their latency is added to the GCD. I believe elemental shamans also run into a problem of GCD length with certain LB/CL rotations, but I know less about that.

 

coldbear

Same thing keeps happening to me about 1/30min or so while dpsing/grinding with powershift enabled.

Seems to happen more often in graphically intensive instance fights.


1. The macros in the second post of this thread need to read [mod:alt] or possibly [modifier: alt] - I dunno which or if both is right syntax, but according to someone in the megathread this is why my Haste Potions went out of stock PRETTY DAM QUICK.

2. The macros as posted - I believe - assume a t6 bonus. It would be helpful for us lesser mortals if the correct numbers for non-t6 wearers would be spelled out. After a day or two messing with this I believe the following values should be used:

Mangle macro: 20 or 19

Shred: 22 or 21

Rip: 9 or 10

But I'm still confused why I've seen people say "[base cost of Mangle/Shred/Rip] minus 20" and "...minus 21". What's the difference?

 

Thorek

This power shifting stuff is pretty awesome. I was practising my DPS on a resto shaman friend while she perpetually healed herself over and over - eventually I got it to start working.

A suggestion I'd have would be to edit the original post with a more thorough explanation of how it works, and how easily see results in the game.

For example I am a little confused still - why would I power shift a rip... ever?
Wouldn't I still want to wait for 80+ energy to mangle immediately afterwards? Not to mention, with the power shifting I usually have more CP, faster.
Am I supposed to be shredding non-stop at 5 CP and as soon as rip falls off power-shift to get the cycle going again?

Generally what I've been doing is just tossing out more shreds at 5 CP if rip hasn't ticked off yet, but generally thats only 1 extra, if at all.

 

Allev

Say you're at 8 energy after your last shred. You'd want to power-shift to 40, let your energy tick to 60, rip down to 30, get your energy tick in the GCD to 50, mangle to 15, then either shift for shredding, do your normal shreds (which sets you up for a decent shift after your next rip if you only shred twice), or squeeze in a mangle on the next energy tick and then shift for shredding.

You can still wait for 80 energy even if you powershift before a rip. The question is why you'd powershift mangling, which isn't terribly necessary unless you let your mangle get un-synced with your rips. If you consistently run a 12s cycle, then you very well might want to offset your mangle to allow some more flexible powershifting.

 

ecopsorn

Well yesterday I got so disappointed of the powershift-macros that I disabled them...
Yesterday in Karazhan it happened throughout the run 4 times, that I got stuck in caster form and were casting starfire. This is a much greater loss than the macros can bring back in my mind.

Hopefully it will work out once, I don't understand why it can even happen

 

Deninkle

Why not just place the same macro on the same place of your caster cast bar?

Or alternatively keybind your macro with SetBindingMacro.

 

Nisall

I've found myself in caster form a couple times as well when using the macro. What I have done is made a small macro /cast Cat Form and put it on the same hotkey (3) on my casterbar as the powershift macro is on catbar. So when I happen to stay in caster form I can just keep pressing the same hotkey to get back catform and continue the powershift macro.

 

ecopsorn

I see your point, but then I have to replace my caster-attacks on the main buttons (1,2,3,4) with the macros. Of course I could do it, but it's not a clean solution, is it?
I'll check out raffys addon when his next update is on and see if this problem still exists there as well

 

Inaiwae

I am using this macro (i moved it to an addon, like raffy's) for a week and so far i had no problems apart from one, which is Kaz'rogal.

I noticed later when examining combat log that i exploded after powershift, and not only immediately after it but also 5 seconds later. See the log below. I dont see any powershift at the 2nd explosion, and i believe i was in cat form (i checked PoM healing and it was 1950 avg on others, so it is clearly affected by Nurturing Instinct).


18:29'15.350 Inaiwae's Mangle (Cat) hits Kaz'rogal for 990 Physical damage
18:29'15.609 Inaiwae's Swing hits Kaz'rogal for 373 Physical damage
18:29'15.965 Inaiwae's Rip dots Kaz'rogal for 651 Physical damage
18:29'16.547 Inaiwae's Swing hits Kaz'rogal for 288 Physical damage (glancing)
18:29'16.829 Inaiwae gains Track Humanoids
18:29'16.829 Inaiwae gains 40 Energy from Furor
18:29'16.829 Inaiwae's Mark of Kaz'rogal hits Inaiwae for 5539 Shadow damage (5539 resisted)
18:29'16.829 Inaiwae's Mark of Kaz'rogal hits Authir for 5577 Shadow damage (5577 resisted)
18:29'16.829 Inaiwae's Mark of Kaz'rogal hits Markela for 2261 Shadow damage (8018 resisted)
18:29'17.637 Inaiwae's Swing hits Kaz'rogal for 362 Physical damage
18:29'17.637 Inaiwae gains Prayer of Mending
18:29'18.145 Inaiwae's Rip dots Kaz'rogal for 651 Physical damage
18:29'18.761 Inaiwae's Swing crits Kaz'rogal for 728 Physical damage
18:29'19.060 Inaiwae is afflicted by Cripple
18:29'19.060 Inaiwae's Shred crits Kaz'rogal for 3406 Physical damage
18:29'19.330 Inaiwae's Improved Leader of the Pack dot heals Inaiwae for 566
18:29'19.871 Kaz'rogal's War Stomp hits Inaiwae for 2549 Physical damage
18:29'20.141 Inaiwae's Rip dots Kaz'rogal for 651 Physical damage
18:29'20.149 Inaiwae is afflicted by War Stomp
18:29'20.149 Inaiwae's Prayer of Mending heals Inaiwae for 2271
18:29'21.883 Inaiwae gains Prayer of Mending
18:29'22.128 Inaiwae's Rip dots Kaz'rogal for 651 Physical damage
18:29'22.443 Inaiwae is afflicted by Mark of Kaz'rogal
18:29'23.395 Inaiwae's Mark of Kaz'rogal hits Inaiwae for 2656 Shadow damage (7968 resisted)
18:29'23.395 Inaiwae's Mark of Kaz'rogal hits Authir for 5223 Shadow damage (5224 resisted)
18:29'23.395 Inaiwae's Mark of Kaz'rogal hits Markela for 6921 Shadow damage (2727 resisted)
18:29'23.818 Inaiwae's Prayer of Mending heals Inaiwae for 2270
18:29'24.224 Inaiwae gains Prayer of Mending
18:29'25.016 Inaiwae's Swing crits Kaz'rogal for 733 Physical damage
18:29'25.359 Inaiwae's Shred crits Kaz'rogal for 3406 Physical damage

 

timberwoof

Addon isn't working for me, I use enGb client;

Debug Information:
Cat Form Mana Cost: %d nil

I've checked enhanced tooltip at help options, it's enabled.

 

Gaseous

I can't seem to get any of these macros to work and it's making me a bit nuts. I've tried them all including the feralkit addon.

I'm on a mac if that makes any difference
I've tried disabling all of my add-ons

I get the text chat telling me that I've enabled/disabled power shifting.
Spam the macro and just get regular mangle's, no energy from Furor, no puff of smoke...

I have been power shifting manually for months and that still works fine...

Any ideas?

 

Mojojuice33

For those getting stuck in caster form, using

/cast !Cat Form

instead of

/cast Cat Form

has never kept me in caster form, even while spamming, and will powershift you without using a /cancelform command.

Additionally, I have noted that Fel Mana Potions do not regen mana while you're in cat form, much to my dismay, considering I made about 50 of them the other day, as well as an Assassin's Alchemist Stone to fuel my powershifting. Now it looks like I'll be going back to Mana Potion Injectors.

 

Aelus

I've been using the inline macro, and I've been stuck in caster form numerous times during boss fights. I assumed that while spamming, I had nailed my healing touch (bound to the same key) and it had cut off the rest of the macro. I'm going to try binding it to a completely separate hotkey tonight and see if the problem still happens.

Am I way off base with my assumption? It seems like everyone that's reported being stuck in caster has been stuck casting something - could it be something as simple as that?

 

coldbear

Watch your GCD, only hit the button as the GCD has just finished, and don't keep hammering the button imo.

But yes, I still get stuck in caster form sometimes.

 

ecopsorn

as funny as it might sound... this macro is supposed to watch the GCD for me, not vice-versa ^^

 

raffy

The GCD check doesn't prevent the cast from occuring since CancelPlayerBuff("Cat Form") doesn't trigger the GCD.

It's hard to test because its not easy to reproduce, but as I mentioned a few posts ago, it would be interesting to test it with "/console autounshift 0". And as others have mentioned, testing it via an action on a bar that doesn't page.

On a sidenote: I'm probably going to release another version of FeralKit this weekend along with a whole slew of fixes and updates. The newest feature, as mentioned previously, is a smart debuff manager (called DebuffGrid). The main idea, is that you setup how your debuffs are grouped, prioritized, and sorted, so they always appear the same way. Different groups are centered, horizontally, and debuffs of the same group stack upwards (more layouts planed). Debuffs can be flagged with many conditionals like (only show mine, show count, show total stacks) and the time can be displayed various ways as well (cooldown clock, or text in seconds). The border color can also be customized to indicate various states (debuff type, if missing, if yours...). There's still a bunch to do but I got a working version and it works pretty well. I also have code written that parses the combat log to read nearby casts to predict cooldowns for raid/party, so for example, you could observe the Mangle duration if there is a second Feral in the raid.

http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKitDebuffGridConcept.jpg (original prototype)
http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKitDebuffGrid.jpg (first working version)
http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKitDebuffGrid2.jpg (second version, supports shared debuff groups, more prefs)

Edit:
http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKitDebuffGrid3.jpg (latest version, pulsing, progress bars, more settings)