Feral Powershifting: macros, thresholds, mana management - Page 9

Merple · 05/26/08, 8:19 AM

Originally Posted by raffy

http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKitDebuffGridConcept.jpg (original prototype)
http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKitDebuffGrid.jpg (first working version)
http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKitDebuffGrid2.jpg (second version, supports shared debuff groups, more prefs)

Edit:
http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKitDebuffGrid3.jpg (latest version, pulsing, progress bars, more settings)

This looks exceptional from all angles. I'm using Demon to monitor this now, but this looks like a great upgrade.

charlimangy · 05/26/08, 10:01 AM

Thanks for the mod, Raffy, I've been going back and forth about powershifting manually since I learned about it, and having it done automatically is a great idea, for me.

I used the macros for the first time last night in Karazhan. Here's a few comments:

1. I really wanted to turn the "summary after combat" thing off, but couldn't figure out how to do it.
2. What I really want is a summary over a longer period. Like a summary command I can activate when I want.

Because this add-on is a kind of a "magic" macro, the thing I most want is something that gives me reassurance that it is actually working.

I *think* it was working, at least some of the time. My DPS stayed about the same as previous runs, but our hunter respeced so I was missing the Improved Hunters Mark buff, so I think that offset the DPS gain from the add on.

I am curious about how best to use the macros. It feels a little weird to be spamming an attack when I know I don't have enough energy for it. Should I be doing that?

Knoli · 05/26/08, 11:44 AM

We got loads of DPS meter, combat logger, and so.

But have no good feral debuff lists. NECB helps, but really not enough.

So if this thing that you making will work correctly and maybe will communicate with other poeple who had this addon to refresh the timers... it will be just perfect.

Duilliath · 05/26/08, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by raffy

http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKitDebuffGridConcept.jpg (original prototype)
http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKitDebuffGrid.jpg (first working version)
http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKitDebuffGrid2.jpg (second version, supports shared debuff groups, more prefs)

Edit:
http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKitDebuffGrid3.jpg (latest version, pulsing, progress bars, more settings)

This is pure beauty - I hadn't bothered to get the addon yet, as the macro worked just fine for me, but this looks very appealing.

Earl · 05/26/08, 1:32 PM

Im trying to get powershifting to work, yet no luck yet. Downloaded the addon, and tried out macros etc but nothing seems to make me leave the catform, dont know what im doing wrong.

It might be relevant that i am only level 40. (I decided to invenst in [Wolfshead Helm] and specc into furor, natural shapeshifter etc, to see if it is any good to powershift some)

Mijae · 05/26/08, 2:14 PM

Originally Posted by Earl

Im trying to get powershifting to work, yet no luck yet. Downloaded the addon, and tried out macros etc but nothing seems to make me leave the catform, dont know what im doing wrong.

It might be relevant that i am only level 40. (I decided to invenst in [Wolfshead Helm] and specc into furor, natural shapeshifter etc, to see if it is any good to powershift some)

I'm pretty sure feral talents are going to give you larger boosts than powershifting will. You could have 4/5 HotW and LotP at 40. You'll also want mangle asap.

slant · 05/26/08, 4:16 PM

Definitely. Don't bother powershifting until 55 at the very minimum.

The addon does work, although I can't imagine it won't be nerfed as it's not supposed to be possible to cast spells based upon conditions.

Starlight · 05/26/08, 9:26 PM

Anyone recommend a good feral debuff monitor? That one suggested earlier I can't find anywhere. I'm currently using Chronometer working well but sometimes it bugs out when my attack is dodged it shows the debuff but my combo points aren't taken away primarily happens with Rip.

Kabro · 05/27/08, 3:44 AM

Originally Posted by Starlight

Anyone recommend a good feral debuff monitor? That one suggested earlier I can't find anywhere. I'm currently using Chronometer working well but sometimes it bugs out when my attack is dodged it shows the debuff but my combo points aren't taken away primarily happens with Rip.

I myself use Quartz. Works pretty fine to be honest.
You can read a bit about it on Quartz - WowAce Wiki

Only problem I can say having with it is that when a monster is being bear-tanked or you've got multiple cats on the same target and you're not the one to apply the mangle debuff it doesn't show it's timer.

Valerian · 05/27/08, 8:43 AM

Originally Posted by Starlight

Anyone recommend a good feral debuff monitor? That one suggested earlier I can't find anywhere. I'm currently using Chronometer working well but sometimes it bugs out when my attack is dodged it shows the debuff but my combo points aren't taken away primarily happens with Rip.

I use debuff filter though Im not sure if they are still updating it. Its compact enough that I can show the three debuffs I need (Mangle, FF and Rip) right under my energy ticker. It also has a bit of an issue if another cat/bear is putting up mangle with no timer showing but it still appears and disappears properly so its rarely a large problem.

Stonehenge · 05/27/08, 1:54 PM

Originally Posted by charlimangy

Thanks for the mod, Raffy, I've been going back and forth about powershifting manually since I learned about it, and having it done automatically is a great idea, for me.

I used the macros for the first time last night in Karazhan. Here's a few comments:

1. I really wanted to turn the "summary after combat" thing off, but couldn't figure out how to do it.

I had the same issue, I think you toggle it with /fk ps output

Garanthir · 05/27/08, 2:00 PM

Raffy, do you have any insight for those of us having the issue of the mod loading, but simply not doing anything in game? Would debug output help you? I'd PM you, but I believe there are enough folks having the issue that it should be posted publicly.

Allev · 05/27/08, 2:30 PM

New question to ponder: what is the value of 2t4 with the new macros?

The first thing I noticed when I switched to macros is that 2t4 ticks are missed far less often because when they occur at unexpected times, you no longer shift. The "old" reasoning for DPS pre-Sunwell was that 4t6 was great for powershifting-heavy players as opposed to 2t4 for that reason (before you could get both bonuses at once), because of the chance to destroy that energy gain. Once you could get both set bonuses, it was generally assumed that you wanted both bonuses until you're fully DPS-geared up.

However, for short-duration fights, do 2t4 procs actually interrupt our ability to shift as often as we'd like? As in, if a shift gives you ~30 energy, but 20 energy from a 2t4 proc interrupts that, will this let us shift less than we'd like given the mana that we have? In other words: is a 2t4 proc a loss of DPS if it keeps us from shifting and we don't end up OOM? In effect, with the macros, 2t4 is a mana saver and an energy loss?

This would mean that either 2t4 or powershifting is overvalued if we're not going OOM on a DPS fight.

Valerian · 05/27/08, 3:23 PM

Originally Posted by Allev

New question to ponder: what is the value of 2t4 with the new macros?

The first thing I noticed when I switched to macros is that 2t4 ticks are missed far less often because when they occur at unexpected times, you no longer shift. The "old" reasoning for DPS pre-Sunwell was that 4t6 was great for powershifting-heavy players as opposed to 2t4 for that reason (before you could get both bonuses at once), because of the chance to destroy that energy gain. Once you could get both set bonuses, it was generally assumed that you wanted both bonuses until you're fully DPS-geared up.

However, for short-duration fights, do 2t4 procs actually interrupt our ability to shift as often as we'd like? As in, if a shift gives you ~30 energy, but 20 energy from a 2t4 proc interrupts that, will this let us shift less than we'd like given the mana that we have? In other words: is a 2t4 proc a loss of DPS if it keeps us from shifting and we don't end up OOM? In effect, with the macros, 2t4 is a mana saver and an energy loss?

This would mean that either 2t4 or powershifting is overvalued if we're not going OOM on a DPS fight.

If I'm at 10 energy and I shift I make a net gain of 20 energy, which is the same as the 2T4 proc. Thus if you have less than 10 energy it it worth shifting even if you get a 2T4 proc, if you're not going to run out of mana during the fight. If you're shifting at above 10 energy, then the proc (and consequently not shifting) is in fact saving you both mana AND increasing your dps, but again by a pretty marginal amount.

Personally I just manually powershift with an energy tick tracker and a GCD monitor. I've added an energy check to my macro to not let me shift if I'm at 30 energy or more. This saves me from losing 2T4 procs, though I still need to make the decision when to powershift myself. I prefer this to spamming a macro and it is pretty simple to do (you have a full second to determine if you want to powershift or not, plus any extra time if you can subtract the 42 from your current energy total to determine what you'll be at post shred).

Allev · 05/27/08, 6:50 PM

1) Most of my shifts are less than 10 energy, I usually find it's not a great mana tradeoff since you can put off the shift until the next Rip, which puts you under 10 energy and in a good place to mangle, then shift or shred again for a nice low-energy shift.
2) Even if you come out even on energy (likely given that you're aiming for under 10 energy with your energy cap), you still lose the gear difference between your best gear and 2t4 set. If it's net-even on energy and you get better stats by not using 2t4, you shouldn't be using 2t4 except when you need to save mana (or don't want to have to pot).
3) With a 30 threshold, won't you still lose all your 2t4 procs that happen when you're less than 10 energy? So you're shifting on half the 2t4 procs that put you less than a second away from attacking? I'd at least cut that down to 22, or up to 35. Unless you're preserving it to rip immediately, in which case you're gimping your pre-shred shifts in exchange for your pre-rip shifts, and that doesn't make sense since your shreds will outnumber your rips 2-1 in most cases.