Moonkin WotLK Talent Preview / Discussion - Page 103

RoseQuartz · 11/04/08, 2:33 PM

Concerns about utilizing Eclipse for BT-Sunwell-geared moonkins (with 4p t6) in a raid setting:

In my experience, maximizing damage done to a boss in a raid setting heavily depends on the time spent casting. That is why speed increase enchant to boots, which only provides a small boost to relocating faster, is favored, as well as chain-casting, and making macros to switch targets efficiently. The glyph of Starfire is also valuable for the reason of not having to interrupt chain-casting Starfire to cast another spell and potentially lose another split second of DPS time.

Eclipse seems like yet another ability which causes reaction time delays, even with an announcing mod. It probably works fine on single-target DPS while standing still for a long time, but what about fights requiring mobility and switching targets? Moreover, as mentioned above, 4p t6, which a lot of raiding moonkins have now, and the Ashtongue talisman favor Starfire spam, given enough haste.

Question is, how would sacrificing the benefit of 4p t6, effective DPS time (due to some reaction time to switch between spells), and Ashtongue talisman (for those of us without Skull or Silver) in order to fully utilize Eclipse compare to straight Moonfire + Starfire * X spam in real raid situation.

Originally Posted by Sqz

mm if I look at wrath vs starfire I see an increase in overall damage for wrath at a cost of mana. 2 wraths do more damage than 1 starfire and if you have 2 casts, you'll have 2 chances of critting for 209% dmg and reducing the cast of the next one by 0,5 sec

Yes, Wrath is half the Starfire cast time, but if you crit with a Wrath spell, your next Wrath will fly out pretty fast if you're chaining it, and the Nature's Grace benefit on it is not complete because of all the haste we get from gear and buffs. And one would need a reaction time of a computer to reactively cast Starfire after a Wrath crit.

Korben · 11/04/08, 2:34 PM

Originally Posted by bethor

I assume there will be a new thread once WOTLK comes out. until then, read along like the rest of us...

I'm pretty sure an EJ member would follow a thread on their own site...

Glyph of Innervate - Your Innervate spell now grants you full mana regeneration while casting for 20 sec, in addition to the effect on the primary target. Innervate's effect is instead increased by 20% if you are the primary target. (Old - Your innervate ability now has an additional 20% strength mana regeneration effect on you, in addition to the effect on your primary target.)

This new innervate glyph might become useful, and I could see a moonkin benefiting a lot if they can cast an innervate on someone else and still get the innervate effect for themself. I know rotations are a little liquid right now, especially since Eclipse is worth using now.

This could also free up some points in intensity and OoC. However I have been focusing on lvl 70 builds so I do not know if it is an issue or not.

bethor · 11/04/08, 4:25 PM

just tested. Starfall will not give mana back on crits

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...33213025111231

^thats my current spec for raiding

torand · 11/04/08, 5:10 PM

Hey, isn't furor pretty good for both mana regen (increases total mana), and for some additional spell damage right now. I was thinking about going something like this when I get home

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...33213005111231

I don't know, maybe not, but I think I am going to be something closer to the above at 80, just add in Dreamstate, OoC, Intensity, and finish off some stuff in Balance.

Korben · 11/04/08, 5:22 PM

I think the mana regen would be negligible, and wouldn't it only be 1.2% increase in spell dmg? So that's like what 15 or so? I personally am looking at this spec:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...03213335301030

I chose owlkin frenzy since in sunwell i'm being hit on most of the fights (especially fights like felmyst, twins, m'uru and KJ). I also chose brambles to try out the 15% dmg increase to treants, not sure yet if i want to keep that or not. I didn't go with typhoon, gale winds, or starfall as i don't measure dps on trash packs and half the time i'm FF anyways.

torand · 11/04/08, 5:36 PM

Yeah, I stopped doing 25 mans like a week before 3.0 came out (Had killed Illidan, but only put like 2-3 attempts in on Kalcgos) so I can't speak to Sunwell. Also never raided on my druid really. I think owlkin frenzy will be amazing if that AOE trend continues after Naxx and beyond, but I think I am going to be doing all 10 mans come Wrath.

Brambles is really a nice boost to treants if they don't die immidiately. The spec I was running pre-3.0.3 was very PVP oriented, and I was running with it, and would see treants hit for 800 each on clothies.

Maax · 11/04/08, 7:09 PM

Could someone test the numbers on a DOT-less build:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...03213035311231

With either a wrath-eclipse or sf-eclipse focus.

eric1855 · 11/04/08, 8:12 PM

I noticed Improved Faerie Fire is in some builds, but not others.

I am currently hit capped, but could easily drop some hit to pick up spell damage and crit. Would spec'ing into Improved FF allow one to safely drop ~3% from gear if possible? Still up in the air over whether or not this would be a good idea.

dukes · 11/04/08, 8:21 PM

Originally Posted by eric1855

I noticed Improved Faerie Fire is in some builds, but not others.

I am currently hit capped, but could easily drop some hit to pick up spell damage and crit. Would spec'ing into Improved FF allow one to safely drop ~3% from gear if possible? Still up in the air over whether or not this would be a good idea.

Depends entirely on whether you reliably have a shadow priest in raids for Misery (as the effect doesn't stack) - even if not, yes it would allow you to have 3% less hit in order to pick up other stats, as long as you keep track of it and make sure it's always up. 1% crit per point is hardly something to be sniffed at too.

Carnacki · 11/04/08, 8:42 PM

I may have missed it (this is a looong thread) but was anyone able to confirm whether a Feral putting FF would provide the crit bonus from our Imp FF? Or did it have to be our FF on the boss to do that?

Also with the loss of mana regen on Hurricane and Starfall I'm looking to put more mana regen talents back into my spec. We lack druids in my guild, we have literally one resto druid that runs with any sort of regularity so I'm speccing impMoTW. At the moment my planned spec lacks impFF but if Feral FF benefits us I might put it back in.

It's not possible to spec the 51 point talent and still gain the benefit of intensity (at level 70 obviously). With the mana regen nerf I'm wondering whether starfall is still potent enough to warrant taking. It's awesome in somewhere like hyjal but in a lot of other places it's actually risky to use (pull extra mobs/break CC). Removing starfall I can get Intensity with something like this.

edit: I knew I forgot something... the question the second build raises, is it better to take 2 points in intensity and 1 in OOC than three in Intensity? I couldn't find the post that suggested relative values for each one.

ps: I know this is only for two weeks but what the hell.

sinnocence · 11/04/08, 10:51 PM

From patch notes under Bug Fixes: "Druid: Omen of Clarity now has a reduced chance to be triggered by Hurricane. " I wonder how much of a reduced chance...I probably shouldn't be too worried about this.

• Adoriele · 11/04/08, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by sinnocence

From patch notes under Bug Fixes: "Druid: Omen of Clarity now has a reduced chance to be triggered by Hurricane. " I wonder how much of a reduced chance...I probably shouldn't be too worried about this.

Ghostcrawler mentioned it would be by a third, but not sure whether that's per tick or per cast. Also, given that it's GC, it could also mean that they intend it to be a third of normal instead of two thirds.

PsyBomb · 11/04/08, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by Adoriele

Ghostcrawler mentioned it would be by a third, but not sure whether that's per tick or per cast. Also, given that it's GC, it could also mean that they intend it to be a third of normal instead of two thirds.

In any of the cases you describe, it's still a virtual guarantee to get a proc if you get a full channel off on 3 or more targets. Since that's the primary situation you should be using the spell on, I am not concerned.

Incidentally, awesome work on Squawk and Awe. Even with an Affliction warlock for my main, some of those procs and timers were tough to keep track of and utilize.

Flamegrilled · 11/05/08, 12:06 AM

Hey guys just thought I would point out that the current patch notes state that eclipse has had its buff value doubled at the cost of an increased 40 second cool down, now prior to this patch i used a simple ingame timer to time when to switch from SF to Wrath so i could always proc the extra SF crit chance, since the patch came out today i recalibrated my timer for 40 seconds but for some reason it wasnt proccing as expected so I did some testing and have found that from the point of proccing eclipse (the moon icon coming up) I have been able to proc it again REGULARLY between 30 seconds and 35 seconds later which suggests that the old 30 second cool down is still active, if this is true then im also curious to know if the new 20% wrath and 30% SF values have also not been put into practise.

Has anyone else found this?

Is Ghost aware of this?

Flamegrilled

heptadragon · 11/05/08, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by Carnacki

I may have missed it (this is a looong thread) but was anyone able to confirm whether a Feral putting FF would provide the crit bonus from our Imp FF? Or did it have to be our FF on the boss to do that?

I can't quote an immediate post off the top of my head, but the tooltip and previous posts have indicated that the extra crit comes from anyone's FF being up on the target.

Also with the loss of mana regen on Hurricane and Starfall I'm looking to put more mana regen talents back into my spec. ...

I ran with only OoC and Moonglow in my build in BT tonight, no haste from gear and not using Eclipse in my rotation. I didn't have any mana issues on any fight, I drank one potion on Gorefiend. Granted, we didn't AoE very much trash and I don't have Starfall. I hope this helps ya.