Still doesn't work : the NG proc might be up as soon as the spell is cast, but your next spellcast should be queued before the current one is cast in order to benefit from the spellqueuing system and neutralize latency somewhat.

Yeah, that's my thought as well. DS and Intensity are powerful/required now, but that's in a world without OoC and the new form. We may just not need that much passive regen once Lich King hits.

Well, between Moonkin aura and OoC, you should be able to drop some points from either Dreamstate or Intensity. It seems to me that since the new talents will increase the value of crit (more mana back) and Intellect (more crits, and more mana back on a crit), that we'll end up stacking int quite a bit. Depending on how the numbers turn out, Dreamstate might actually be more favorable than Intensity. It will certainly be interesting to see what the stats on level 80 raiding gear will look like.

While I agree that crit and intellect are certainly more valuable than they have ever been before, it's nowhere near enough to surpass the value of spirit (If only due to innervate). You also have to look at itemization: the way gear is designed it's almost impossible to stack intellect. Perhaps if there were spell damage/intellect gems with sizable amounts of int on them, there might be a way for it to be more valuable than haste or pure spell damage. You also have to remember that with the spirit formula, each bit of intel makes your spirit that much more valuable. It definitely encourages a balanced approach to base statistics.


I can't wait to see if the combination of the proc on crit talents, and the additional amount of raid buffed haste will bring haste and crit rating closer together in dps values. It seems like spell damage is going to be the real number one stat though, even more than it already is.

well.. in case some may not realise:

Air Totem of Wrath = 10% flat spell haste all the time:
Imp Moonkin Aura = 20% haste for 8 secs on crit, with 30 secs cooldown

Air Totem of Wrath >> iMkAura (wotlk balance feature ability)

disappointed really.

Also I noticed THorns no longer gives the dazed effect, and Thorns damage is nerfed by half, to 73 at final rank, whiles Retribution Aura sits nicely at 129. Also pala spell damage affects Ret Aura, but druid spell damage does not affect Thorns.. i mean.. come on. Off coruse Ret Aura dose more damage after Ret talent boost

The concept of Thorns is that they should hurt. When viewing the alpha's 141 damage then adding brambles effect to it, it was a nice buff for balance druids, I thought yes, now Thorns really hurt, but the nerf is pretty hard, feels very gimmicky again.

I was sad to see Treant damage also nerfed to 15% but that I could have lived with given that they do a lot of damage and are boosted by spell power already. but. Imp Moonkin Aura nerf was un-necessary, so was the Thorns damage nerf - most certainly in light of Wrath of Air Totem and Retribution Aura.

Aside from that, I'm glad Moonkin Aura gives mana back, no need to spec to intensity now, and omen of clarity will proc for spells. I still hope mana on melee for feral forms will be given, because with this new mana feature, at least non of you who disagree with it will mind because you wouldn't need it or have to use it raids.

Balance: Not everyone has to have the same damage, the same utility, and the same survivability. It would be much fairer to say that everyone should have the same (damage + utility + survivability).

Also, if you're going to compare items, you should compare _all_ of it. E.g., talented:

Retribution Aura
129 Holy damage reflected on each hit on anyone affected by the Aura (your number)
+2% damage to everyone affected by the Aura
+3% melee haste to everyone affected by the Aura
+3% ranged haste to everyone affected by the Aura
+3% spell haste to everyone affected by the Aura

Moonkin Aura
+5% spell crit to everyone affected by the Aura
20% spell haste for 8 seconds for someone affected by the Aura when he crits with a spell (30s cooldown)

Which of the two is better? Most people would probably say that Retribution Aura is better, but at least all the relevant data is there. Your post only gives part of the equation.

While we have a patch note that says Retribution Aura's damage will be increased by spell damage, we do not have a patch stating something similar for Thorns. That does not, however, mean that Thorns will not be getting increased damage, as the patch notes are stated as being incomplete.

As for mana-on-melee... they got rid of it. If you want it, hey great, but I'd like a million dollars. Wishes, however unfortunate, aren't fishes.

hmm... i wasn't comparing Moonkin Aura with retribution Aura,

I was comparing Improved Moonkin Aura, with Air Totem of Wrath, .. we are looking for greater viability in WotLK, i was initially quite excited about balance primarily because of Improved Moonkin Aura being a great buff.

I was happy when i read beta Air Totem of Wrath gave a flat 10% spell haste, thinking it was good upgrade from 101 spell damage, and taking other buffs that shaman have into account, they shouldn't envy Imp Moonkin Aura,

well, then I read what became of improved Moonkin aura, with a 30 sec cooldown on it, it is far less effective than AIr Totem of Wrath, giving you 20% haste for 8 secs when you crit with the cooldown makes 16 secs in more than over 1 min compared to 10% haste all the time a BC ability that ALL shaman can give can beat hands down an enhanced aura for a dedicated spell caster meant to be the hallmark buff of the build for the new expansions,. It reminds me of when they nerfed the Moonfire Idol the 30sec cooldown ruined it for an entire patch.

Okay, improved moonkin aura is fine, it is exactly how it should be, it should be a lot worse than Air totem of wrath, and balance shouldn't really have had it like it was in alpha, that was just way way too much, as it is now, it is nice, a mild buff, in line with other mild features like Thorns and Mark of the Mild, i mean Wild. Balance is not supposed to be a main line build, it's a complimentary build, the sort you throw in when you need one extra, anything really decent needs to be trimmed back a little.

exactly, it's so frustrating, we really need thorns to have that daze effect on it, I mean it's the whole package that would have helped us against melee:

Thorns daze
Treant daze
Thorns high damage
Typhoon
Cyclone
NGrasp/roots
Owlkin frenzy anti-pushback

the thing is, without anti-interrupt, it[s tough, you need a more reliable daze source effect than 2min cooldown treants and barkskin. Thorns is ideal. Thorns should hurt also

having that nerf to thorns damage does not bode well for pvp, neither does having it removed from receiving the daze effect.

tbh, i can tolerate typhoon as it is, and even no daze with thorns if they added anti-interrupt to some degree in Owlkin frenzy, but Thorns damage should really go back

The real question i see here is, which auras/totems will go raid wide and which wont. If the feral and balance aura effects stay party wide they are quiet underwhelming compared to totems and now auras. Id rather see a slight nurf to those, as already implemented with the IMA and see it raidwide. Only problem with this is that i dont see the pure dps classes to ever catch up to this amount of raid synergy.

Your focus sounds like PvP. Most of the others focus purely on PvE. None of the above is valueable for PvE.

Right now that's exactly how it is. Moonkin aura, LotP, Trueshot Aura are definitively still party only. Whether that changes or not, we'll see.