bavelb

I just came of PTR, Improved Moonkin Aura is still 3 points for 3%haste.

Current problem with PTR is mostly that Glyph of Starfire is unavailable, so the IS-5xSF rotation is a IS - MF - 5xSF.

 

Prowler

Glyph of starfire unavailable? are you sure of that? i currently have it in one of my glyph slots

 

bavelb

Apologies, maybe unobtainable is the better word, its never in AH and WTB requests are generally not getting a response.

 

Alerian

The MMO Champion update wasn't written very clearly. IIRC, iMKA was giving 3% haste with 1 talent point pre-patch and points 2 and 3 were only changing the percent of spirit amount. In this build, it's now once again 1/2/3% haste and 5/10/15% spirit to damage.

 

Kathbrian

Any numbers on how the new Eclipse works for DPS increase in perfect situations? It seems like it would be really annoying to have to switch spells every 15 seconds, but it seems to have been boosted significantly.

 

bavelb

I'm failing to see the boost. Assuming a SF proccing the wrath buff, you'll loose at least 2.5 seconds of it as your next cast is already charging when you notice the proc, and will have trouble keeping your dots up in a steady rotation if you use all of the remaining uptime for wrathspam.

According to this thread:
Comparing possible Moonkin builds (spreadsheet)
the rotations for eclipse are very hard to maintain for either a very small dps gain, and a very quick dps loss if you mess up these rotations.

But maybe I'm missing something or making things overly complicated.

 

Kathbrian

Overall the amount of possible uptime has been doubled (up from 25% to 50%), and it's now a 100% proc chance. Of course, it does still have the problem of not playing nice with the Starfire glyph, and the fact that Wrath gets WTF owned by haste gear...

Come to think of it, fixing those issues probably would have helped it more than increasing the uptime...

 

erragal

Eclipse was starting to look very good and enjoyable until the inexplicable nerf to 15 second duration. Now it's back to where it was in the beginning: a marginal talent that may just not be worth the talent points ahaon/

 

Axanor

I have a feeling they're trying to move it to a PvP talent, as Wrath-spam really just doesn't work out in PvE due to spell haste's existance.

 

• Adoriele

The problem with having the duration match the cooldown, especially when you're using Starfire as the filler, is that you're likely going to be in the middle of a cast when the buff drops. With over 50% crit on Starfire, which is very possible, you're more likely than not to proc the wrong eclipse buff. Yes, you could use buff timers to make sure you don't, but the chance of failure is high enough without them that I'm sure Blizzard isn't satisfied with it.

 

Angelfire

So, any ideas of a good spec considering the current build on the Beta?
I'm thinking of going http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...35013005011051, when the last 4 points would probably go to Improved IS and Improved FF.
I think Eclipse sukcs to be honest from what I read so far, but I'm not sure about Owlkeen Frenzy. No one seems to take it, and I agree it's an odd little thing, but is it really worthless? And would it be better to take Balanace of Power or try to be hit-capped from gear?
I also left Genesis out, as even though it sounds amazing, I'm not sure there's anything I can give up for that. Thoughts?

 

◊ Pudgeball

You definitely don't need Dreamstate, and I don't see a need for Typhoon either.

You need two more points in Nature's Grace as well. I'm having second thoughts about Owlkin Frenzy. It can proc off of AoE damage spells, and most fights seem to have those. I'd be curious to see the uptime in a lot of fights, and it probably may be worth the 10% increased damage.

I would take Balance of Power, but I don't think many raiding moonkin will take iFF since there will most likely be a SP with Misery. iIS isn't bad, since Moonfire + Starfire spam is what you'll be doing if you don't have eclipse.

Then again, I'm not sure exactly what your spec is for (5 man, 10, 25 etc)

 

Nilaus

It seems that most (if not all builds) include 3/3 Lunar Guidance.
But doing the math leaves much to be desired in my opinion:
1000 Int -> 40 spell power / point

Isn't that rather lackluster considering we will be pushing 2k spell power. The tree is so bloated that we are forced to make tough calls and this one seems like a good place to cut.

This leaves my build (5man/10man) like this:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...35013005011051

- 2/3 Nature's Focus gives Wrath 46% interruption reduction + 50 % from glyph = 96 % reduction, for pure raiding it can be switched to 2/2 MotW
- I'm not sure if Nature's Splendor is worth adding and if so where to take the point from?

 

Morpheen

I still dont think Owlkin frenzy is overly pve friendly. I can see it being great where you are constantly getting pushback like RoS phase 2, but most fights the AoE will not warrent 15% chance for 10 seconds at the expense of 3 points with the current amount of bloat. Id be more tempted to use the wrath glyph, and barkskin when eclipse hit.

Im not sure what they are trying to do with eclipse, I think the idea is great, allowing us to utilize more of our spells, but there isnt enough incentive imo to offset the drawbacks. I would prefer if we could use it as a mana dump to really boost our numbers, boost wrath dmg by 25%, but wrath costs 10% more. That way it would be up to the moonkin to gauge thier mana pool in whether or not they wanted to increase thier dps by further depleting thier DPM. And then have the opposite available at a higher % than 60, so you could starfire eclipse to lessen the mana strain by utilizing 2% mana return on crit. That way moonkin wouldnt just be spamming starfire, but actually weaving different rotations based upon thier mana constraints.

 

Erdluf

We'll be getting 1 DPS or more from each point of spell. 40 dps is more than 1%, unless you are over 4k dps. Talents that give you 1% haste, or 1% crit provide something less than a 1% boost to overall DPS. Lunar Guidance is still fairly high on the "take this" list.

Also, you took 1/3 Nature's Grace. You will want 3/3 NG (although we'd all prefer 1/1).

 

Lambach

Owlkin frenzy isnt really worth it for the pushback, however it is useful for the 10% dmg proc. In naxx its been proccing quite a bit on many fights with aoe components. Its probably a hit or miss talent, and may in the end not be worth it. But I do see a rather large dps boost on fights that have an aoe. My dmg on loetheb was pretty sick with this and the crit buff.

 

Ursanis

As I see it owlkin frenzy will be mostly usefull for aoe-tanking/aoeing in 5 or maybe even 10 man without a paladin tank. Barkskin for the first hurricane and it will have procced in time for the 2nd even with just one point, probably.

I like your eclipse idea, but I have one of my own as well. :P
I'd like to see it become more of a controlled lightning capasitor'esque thing. Make wrath/starfire crits build up charges. (5 charges with 2% each or 10 with 1% w/e). Eclipse would then be used as an active ability that would convert those charges into an actual buff. This would give us some controll over it and allow us to make decisions based on fight duration, phases etc. such as which buff to use, when to use it and whether to use it at once or wait for more charges.

 

◊ Pudgeball

Would almost prefer if it was smaller buffs "Your next Wrath does 20% more damage" or "Your next Starfire has 20% higher chance to crit" without much of a cooldown if any. /shrug That's just me though. Your idea would be a lot more helpful too. I really am not too big of a fan with how it is now.

 

Dragon

Just wondering, what was your spec and DPS on that fight?

 

skeldi

The +10% damage bonus is really just offsetting the dps loss from having your spell pushed back, and in my opinion, +10% dps for 10 seconds, 15% of the time, does not make up for 7.5 seconds in dps you lose from being pushed back (assuming every hit on you pushes you back .5 seconds).

What do you think?

 

• Adoriele

Uh... You're immune to pushback in Frenzy, AND you get the +10%. So... Best of both?

 

Axanor

Owlkin Frenzy probably just needs to be changed to proc solely off of melee attacks, relegating it back to PvP-only status.

 

◊ Lord BEEF

New blue post

The improvements should be nice though yeah, nobody is going to consider extra dps as optional.

I did three wings of naxx today as moonkin and there are a few places where I felt quite good and others suboptimal. I did do 2200 dps on patchwerk but we're not up to the level of other casters quite yet.

Hurricane is very very good though with gale winds. I don't have the recount handy but someone mentioned that it was beating seed of corruption on the damage meters.

 

skeldi

yes, but you have to lose cast time to have a chance of proccing it. averaging -7.5s in cast time to gain 10 seconds of +10% damage to try to make up for the lost of 7.5 seconds of dps.

I don't know... doesn't seem like that great of a gain for 3 talent points

 

Lambach

But if you're taking dmg to proc it, you would have had that pushback anyway. You can't count that loss against the talent.