Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Druids

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09/12/08, 8:36 PM   #751
Axanor
Don Flamenco
 
Axanor's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Area 52
Right now, Imp. Moonkin Aura is pretty worthless in a 25-man raid (or possibly even a 10 man) given that Shamans can simply drop a Wrath of Air totem that gives 5% spell haste. A bump to 5% Haste wouldn't be a bad fix, but I think a better one would be moving I.F.F. to Feral and reverting it to Melee +hit and changing the Imp. Moonkin Aura to a + 3% spell hit buff.

Offline
Old 09/12/08, 10:11 PM   #752
Alerian
playing by beerlight
 
Alerian's Avatar
 
Alerian
Troll Druid
 
No WoW Account
Wrath of Air (spell haste only) stacks with iMK Aura (all haste), Blizzard set WoA in its own category. Swift Retribution however, does not stack with iMK Aura.

United States Offline
Old 09/12/08, 11:30 PM   #753
Axanor
Don Flamenco
 
Axanor's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Area 52
Originally Posted by Alerian View Post
Wrath of Air (spell haste only) stacks with iMK Aura (all haste), Blizzard set WoA in its own category. Swift Retribution however, does not stack with iMK Aura.
That's weird. Given that, we're starting at 11% innate spell haste in raids. I suspect WoA might become a third +3% all haste totem when they crunch the numbers.

Offline
Old 09/13/08, 5:12 AM   #754
Roywyn
Bald Bull
 
Roywyn's Avatar
 
Roywyn
Gnome Mage
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen View Post
However..... I've found that only using Wrath to trigger the Starfire buff was better in my setup. I -do- have an Enhancement Shaman with the SS Glyph, but I also have a Ele-Shammy and a Ele-Hybrid-Shammy driving down the Nature Vulnerability up-time (~27%)
Check the Enhancement/Shaman threads.

Stormstrike is/was changed to a Haunt style debuff, only benefitting the shaman who cast it.
So, no nature damage boosts by Stormstrike for casters/hunters/anything but Enhancement Shaman.

Chaotic Meta Gems in Cataclysm: http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t106009-...2/#post1794256

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput
The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

Offline
Old 09/13/08, 9:46 AM   #755
dedmonwakeen
Bald Bull
 
dedmonwakeen
Undead Priest
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Roywyn View Post
Check the Enhancement/Shaman threads.

Stormstrike is/was changed to a Haunt style debuff, only benefitting the shaman who cast it.
So, no nature damage boosts by Stormstrike for casters/hunters/anything but Enhancement Shaman.
I've actually implemented that already in a recent push, r285 I believe.

However.... I have not implemented the Shaman "blue promises" yet: lava lash, talent location swapping, etc....


Offline
Old 09/13/08, 11:13 AM   #756
princeinexile
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Alerian View Post
Wrath of Air (spell haste only) stacks with iMK Aura (all haste), Blizzard set WoA in its own category. Swift Retribution however, does not stack with iMK Aura.
I still don't believe this. Has anyone actually TESTED it to verify that this is true? It sounds more like wishful thinking and creative interpretation of the blue post about bluffs than actual fact, to me. Until I find confirmation to the contrary, I'm going to assume that two shamans (using windfury and wrath of air totems) can completely cancel IMKA.

I have both an elemental shaman and a boomkin in the beta, so if someone's on and wants to play around with this, send me a tell. Toons on Northrend are Azzazzel (boomkin) and Kinnabarii (shaman).

Offline
Old 09/13/08, 11:57 AM   #757
Eishara
Piston Honda
 
Eishara's Avatar
 
Worgen Death Knight
 
The Venture Co (EU)
Originally Posted by princeinexile View Post
I still don't believe this. Has anyone actually TESTED it to verify that this is true? It sounds more like wishful thinking and creative interpretation of the blue post about bluffs than actual fact, to me. Until I find confirmation to the contrary, I'm going to assume that two shamans (using windfury and wrath of air totems) can completely cancel IMKA.
No, I haven't tested it yet but I can later. What I do want to say is that people saying iMKA and Wrath of Air should stack is not 'creative interpretation' the blue post about raid buffs explicitly said they were two separate categories of buff and therefore should stack.

Offline
Old 09/13/08, 1:36 PM   #758
 Adoriele
Happy October 19th!
 
Adoriele's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight
Preliminary testing:

Thorns scales off of the recipient's spell power, not yours. It sucks, I know.

Brambles does not affect scaling of Thorns. With 1535 Spell Power, I was getting an additional 100 or so damage on thorns whether I had 0 or full Brambles. I submitted a feedback report on it, hopefully they'll change it. This also puts the Thorns scaling coefficient at around .065.

Tests on Brambles for FoN are not really conclusive. Their attacks have random damage, just like everyone else's, which makes it hard to see scaling. My gut feeling is that Brambles does affect scaling for them, but I'd need a lot more time on a test dummy before I could be sure. They have 1408 base health, and seem to scale at .075*your gains in health.

Base health for a 80 NE is 4703. Base mana is 3496. Base stats are 86 STR, 87 AGI, 97 STA, 143 INT, 157 SPI. There's some odd scaling going on with the base stats, the 97 STA only increases health by 790, 143 INT only increases mana by 1865. Naked stats are then 5493 health, 5361 mana.

Starfire base cost is 559 Mana for rank 8-10, 629 for all others. I'm assuming that ranks 8 and 9 are a bug. Moonglow brings SFr10 down to 542, 525, and 508 for each rank respectively. I didn't check any other spells, as these match the expected values, as long as you round down. These also match the WoWhead listing of 16% base mana for the highest rank (18% mana for the others).

Basic premade gear is 1480 Spell Power, 52 hit, 68 haste, 13.38% crit out of form, no MP5. 15k health, 13.6k mana.

Last edited by Adoriele : 09/13/08 at 2:34 PM.

United States Online
Old 09/13/08, 1:47 PM   #759
Alerian
playing by beerlight
 
Alerian's Avatar
 
Alerian
Troll Druid
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Eishara View Post
What I do want to say is that people saying iMKA and Wrath of Air should stack is not 'creative interpretation' the blue post about raid buffs explicitly said they were two separate categories of buff and therefore should stack.
Correct.

Originally Posted by Zarhym
Spell Haste Buff: Wrath of Air Totem

...

Percentage Haste Increase (All Types): Improved Moonkin Aura, Swift Retribution
Could this chanage? Yes.


Source: World of Warcraft (English) Forums -> Changes to Debuffs, Buffs, and Raid Stacking

United States Offline
Old 09/13/08, 2:12 PM   #760
Roywyn
Bald Bull
 
Roywyn's Avatar
 
Roywyn
Gnome Mage
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by Adoriele View Post
Base health for a 80 NE is 4703. Base mana is 3496. Base stats are 86 STR, 87 AGI, 97 STA, 143 INT, 157 SPI. There's some odd scaling going on with the base stats, the 97 STA only increases health by 790, 143 INT only increases mana by 1865. Naked stats are then 5493 health, 5361 mana.

Starfire base cost is 559 Mana for rank 8-10, 629 for all others. I'm assuming that ranks 8 and 9 are a bug. Moonglow brings SFr10 down to 542, 525, and 508 for each rank respectively. I didn't check any other spells, as these match the expected values, as long as you round down. These also match the WoWhead listing of 16% base mana for the highest rank (18% mana for the others).
The first 20 points in sta/int only give you 1 HP/Mana each, hence the odd scaling. They fit with that fix.
It's probably to not punish low sta/int races at the first 5 levels.

For my spells, the latest 3 ranks cost the same, while the older ones cost more (but the same, higher cost).
Probably a double insurance on the downranking nerf.

Chaotic Meta Gems in Cataclysm: http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t106009-...2/#post1794256

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput
The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

Offline
Old 09/13/08, 2:23 PM   #761
Eishara
Piston Honda
 
Eishara's Avatar
 
Worgen Death Knight
 
The Venture Co (EU)
Originally Posted by Alerian View Post
Yes, that could change but they could also change Moonkins into being a spell/melee hybrid like they're doing to Enhancement shamans right now. Why state that something could change when there's only a tiny chance that it could? The system of minor/major debuffs and having them stack seems fairly entrenched in their new system of debuffs.

Offline
Old 09/13/08, 2:28 PM   #762
 Adoriele
Happy October 19th!
 
Adoriele's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight
Using the Starfire glyph I was able to get Moonfire up past 24s duration without any talents or 2T6. My guess is that there is no hard cap on it, but it takes heavy casting (this was on my main, not on the premade, so I have more %haste) for a long time to get it there. Without Heroism, you're not going to be able to game it for keeping MF up while you chain Wrath. By the time you have enough for a 30s Wrath rotation, the boss will likely be dead.

United States Online
Old 09/13/08, 4:54 PM   #763
Axanor
Don Flamenco
 
Axanor's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Area 52
Originally Posted by Eishara View Post
Yes, that could change but they could also change Moonkins into being a spell/melee hybrid like they're doing to Enhancement shamans right now. Why state that something could change when there's only a tiny chance that it could? The system of minor/major debuffs and having them stack seems fairly entrenched in their new system of debuffs.
That's not what he was talking about changing.

Offline
Old 09/14/08, 3:12 AM   #764
princeinexile
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Alerian View Post

I understand completely where people are getting this interpretation. What I want to hear is: "I tested this on the beta yesterday, and yes, IMKA + Wrath of Air gave everyone +8% spell haste! Rock!" or "Even though it looks like they should stack, based on that post, it turns out WoA totally overwrote my IMKA. /weep."

I have yet to hear either. That is all I am asking for.

Offline
Old 09/15/08, 8:43 AM   #765
erragal
Don Flamenco
 
Troll Priest
 
Wildhammer
Originally Posted by princeinexile View Post
I understand completely where people are getting this interpretation. What I want to hear is: "I tested this on the beta yesterday, and yes, IMKA + Wrath of Air gave everyone +8% spell haste! Rock!"
I tested this on the PTR yesterday, and they do stack.

Some other notes from the PTR:

Moonfire does maintain the periodic damage determined at the time of application. I have not tested the impact of moonfire idol switching yet, but that's certainly the best place for us to activate our trinkets early. Debuffs on dots are definitely applied on a per tick basis now as well. This pretty much guarentees I'll be sticking with the DMC after 3.0, as waiting for the Ashtongue trinket to proc will waste far too much moonfire time.

E&M felt much more secure at four points than at three points. I don't think I would want to rely on it at three points in a Starfire rotation. That might be feasible in a wrath rotation, however.

I ran a pug ZA to test my potential DPS rotations when 3.0 hits, and felt very happy with some of our changes. I REALLY enjoy eclipse, it adds a strong dynamic to our DPS. I was starting off with IS, wrath till eclipse proc (While building DMC). When eclipse went off I trinketed, applied moonfire, and began Starfire. After Eclipse went down I switched to wrath momentarily for Eclipse. Very important to pay attention, because accidentally getting the Wrath buff will really impact your rotations. It felt very powerful, but probably could use a slight bit of tweaking (I'd prefer a 25/50/75% proc rate for PVE rotations, or make it two points at 30/60).


Our aoe ability is amazing, almost entirely due to hurricane. I did not get to test aoe caps as of yet, I'm going to test that out tonight (With the moonfire idol). Typhoon is very buggy as it doesn't damage/knockback until the entire animation is finished.

Starfall looks very pretty, but doesn't have a huge damage impact. There's almost nonexistant scaling from spell power, and the splash damage from the stars isn't very impressive either. Two stars will not hit the same target, if there's only one target you will only get ten stars from the spell. The way it's implemented now it should have a one minute cooldown, it is not powerful enough to need a 3-minute limitation as all it serves as is supplementary aoe damage during hurricane.

Offline
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Druids

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WotLK talent Preview/Discussion Steveharris Warriors 3508 11/13/08 8:09 AM
WotLK Talent Preview / Discussion Flamingcloud Warlocks 4153 11/12/08 5:13 PM
Restoration WotLK Talent Preview / Discussion Norfair Druids 653 11/06/08 4:25 PM
[Mage] WotLK Talent Preview / Discussion Cryic Class Mechanics 4786 08/16/08 7:16 PM
[Priest] Holy WotLK Talent Preview / Discussion Sinndir Class Mechanics 88 07/18/08 11:13 PM