Sqz

actually if I'm understanding correctly, which I explained further in my post he means that you won't always get an eclipse proc off those 3 Starfires you'll be casting.

in short; moonfire lasts 27 seconds max, gcd of eclipse is 30 seconds so by the time the first starfire hits, eclipse can be still on the cooldown, depending on haste/grace being put up cuz of the last wrath. then you'd have to proc at least 1 out of 2 starfires in order to get Eclipse going, otherwise it will proc on wrath.

that's where it gets tricky for me. you could simply switch to starfire if it procs off a wrath or keep casting wrath if one of those starfire procs it, or you could cast extra starfire(s) in order to proc the wrath effect. which is tricky because when it procs and you're chaincasting, you're prolly already casting something when you notice the proc coming up and it'd be a waste to cancel and switch

 

dukes

Between the Ashtongue Talisman, 4t6, and the NG/latency issues, Starfire easily comes out on top in the current environment. I assume that in WotLK, only the NG/latency issues will remain (as 4t7 is both Wrath and Starfire, and the trinket will devalue), but that still might be enough to swing things in Starfires favour. If pushback becomes an issue though (which currently I don't believe it is), Natures Focus may gain Wrath some value while not under the effects of Frenzy. Glyph of Starfire is being fixed to only have 3 casts affecting Moonfire (see above discussions on MF/3xSF/(IS)/NxW rotations), but I'm still not sure about how the comparison between Wrath and Starfire will pan out with the stats and boss fights at 80.

 

Sqz

mm if I look at wrath vs starfire I see an increase in overall damage for wrath at a cost of mana. 2 wraths do more damage than 1 starfire and if you have 2 casts, you'll have 2 chances of critting for 209% dmg and reducing the cast of the next one by 0,5 sec

glyph of starfire will be changed and I've only had latency problems big enough to make a difference there on very rare occasions

edit: 4xt6, ashtongue trinket and the current starfire glyph do seem to make starfire superior, (like dukes posted when I was typing) but I'm thinking about the future

 

◊ Lord BEEF

Anyone up for making a new thread with lots of good info in the first post?

Talents and abilities should be more stable so it'd be good to have a launch thread, and to have it answer a lot of the questions I see repeated every few pages in here.

 

bethor

I assume there will be a new thread once WOTLK comes out. until then, read along like the rest of us...




I was thinking for tonight to go with the MF and SF glyphs and make my rotation look like this:


Wrath(to get E&M up), IS, MF, Wrath until Eclipse procs and then spam Starfire

As long as Eclipse procs before the MF falls off, starfire will refresh it.

Any thoughts or ideas on this?

 

• RoseQuartz

Concerns about utilizing Eclipse for BT-Sunwell-geared moonkins (with 4p t6) in a raid setting:

In my experience, maximizing damage done to a boss in a raid setting heavily depends on the time spent casting. That is why speed increase enchant to boots, which only provides a small boost to relocating faster, is favored, as well as chain-casting, and making macros to switch targets efficiently. The glyph of Starfire is also valuable for the reason of not having to interrupt chain-casting Starfire to cast another spell and potentially lose another split second of DPS time.

Eclipse seems like yet another ability which causes reaction time delays, even with an announcing mod. It probably works fine on single-target DPS while standing still for a long time, but what about fights requiring mobility and switching targets? Moreover, as mentioned above, 4p t6, which a lot of raiding moonkins have now, and the Ashtongue talisman favor Starfire spam, given enough haste.

Question is, how would sacrificing the benefit of 4p t6, effective DPS time (due to some reaction time to switch between spells), and Ashtongue talisman (for those of us without Skull or Silver) in order to fully utilize Eclipse compare to straight Moonfire + Starfire * X spam in real raid situation.

Yes, Wrath is half the Starfire cast time, but if you crit with a Wrath spell, your next Wrath will fly out pretty fast if you're chaining it, and the Nature's Grace benefit on it is not complete because of all the haste we get from gear and buffs. And one would need a reaction time of a computer to reactively cast Starfire after a Wrath crit.

"That gum you like is going to come back in style."
"I thrive under a lack of accountability"--Michael Scott
Alt army: -Alliance Druid - Priest - Mage - Deathknight-

 

Korben

I'm pretty sure an EJ member would follow a thread on their own site...


This new innervate glyph might become useful, and I could see a moonkin benefiting a lot if they can cast an innervate on someone else and still get the innervate effect for themself. I know rotations are a little liquid right now, especially since Eclipse is worth using now.

This could also free up some points in intensity and OoC. However I have been focusing on lvl 70 builds so I do not know if it is an issue or not.

 

bethor

just tested. Starfall will not give mana back on crits

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...33213025111231

^thats my current spec for raiding

 

torand

Hey, isn't furor pretty good for both mana regen (increases total mana), and for some additional spell damage right now. I was thinking about going something like this when I get home

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...33213005111231

I don't know, maybe not, but I think I am going to be something closer to the above at 80, just add in Dreamstate, OoC, Intensity, and finish off some stuff in Balance.

 

Korben

I think the mana regen would be negligible, and wouldn't it only be 1.2% increase in spell dmg? So that's like what 15 or so? I personally am looking at this spec:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...03213335301030

I chose owlkin frenzy since in sunwell i'm being hit on most of the fights (especially fights like felmyst, twins, m'uru and KJ). I also chose brambles to try out the 15% dmg increase to treants, not sure yet if i want to keep that or not. I didn't go with typhoon, gale winds, or starfall as i don't measure dps on trash packs and half the time i'm FF anyways.

 

torand

Yeah, I stopped doing 25 mans like a week before 3.0 came out (Had killed Illidan, but only put like 2-3 attempts in on Kalcgos) so I can't speak to Sunwell. Also never raided on my druid really. I think owlkin frenzy will be amazing if that AOE trend continues after Naxx and beyond, but I think I am going to be doing all 10 mans come Wrath.

Brambles is really a nice boost to treants if they don't die immidiately. The spec I was running pre-3.0.3 was very PVP oriented, and I was running with it, and would see treants hit for 800 each on clothies.

 

Maax

Could someone test the numbers on a DOT-less build:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...03213035311231

With either a wrath-eclipse or sf-eclipse focus.

Devs: Our nerfs will block out the sun!
Druids: Then we will tank in the shade.

 

eric1855

I noticed Improved Faerie Fire is in some builds, but not others.

I am currently hit capped, but could easily drop some hit to pick up spell damage and crit. Would spec'ing into Improved FF allow one to safely drop ~3% from gear if possible? Still up in the air over whether or not this would be a good idea.

 

dukes

Depends entirely on whether you reliably have a shadow priest in raids for Misery (as the effect doesn't stack) - even if not, yes it would allow you to have 3% less hit in order to pick up other stats, as long as you keep track of it and make sure it's always up. 1% crit per point is hardly something to be sniffed at too.

 

Carnacki

I may have missed it (this is a looong thread) but was anyone able to confirm whether a Feral putting FF would provide the crit bonus from our Imp FF? Or did it have to be our FF on the boss to do that?

Also with the loss of mana regen on Hurricane and Starfall I'm looking to put more mana regen talents back into my spec. We lack druids in my guild, we have literally one resto druid that runs with any sort of regularity so I'm speccing impMoTW. At the moment my planned spec lacks impFF but if Feral FF benefits us I might put it back in.

It's not possible to spec the 51 point talent and still gain the benefit of intensity (at level 70 obviously). With the mana regen nerf I'm wondering whether starfall is still potent enough to warrant taking. It's awesome in somewhere like hyjal but in a lot of other places it's actually risky to use (pull extra mobs/break CC). Removing starfall I can get Intensity with something like this.

edit: I knew I forgot something... the question the second build raises, is it better to take 2 points in intensity and 1 in OOC than three in Intensity? I couldn't find the post that suggested relative values for each one.

ps: I know this is only for two weeks but what the hell.

 

sinnocence

From patch notes under Bug Fixes: "Druid: Omen of Clarity now has a reduced chance to be triggered by Hurricane. " I wonder how much of a reduced chance...I probably shouldn't be too worried about this.

 

• Adoriele

Ghostcrawler mentioned it would be by a third, but not sure whether that's per tick or per cast. Also, given that it's GC, it could also mean that they intend it to be a third of normal instead of two thirds.

 

PsyBomb

In any of the cases you describe, it's still a virtual guarantee to get a proc if you get a full channel off on 3 or more targets. Since that's the primary situation you should be using the spell on, I am not concerned.

Incidentally, awesome work on Squawk and Awe. Even with an Affliction warlock for my main, some of those procs and timers were tough to keep track of and utilize.

To teach and to learn, to laugh and make others laugh. This is my purpose, and any day in which I don't wasn't worth the time it took to get through.

 

Flamegrilled

Hey guys just thought I would point out that the current patch notes state that eclipse has had its buff value doubled at the cost of an increased 40 second cool down, now prior to this patch i used a simple ingame timer to time when to switch from SF to Wrath so i could always proc the extra SF crit chance, since the patch came out today i recalibrated my timer for 40 seconds but for some reason it wasnt proccing as expected so I did some testing and have found that from the point of proccing eclipse (the moon icon coming up) I have been able to proc it again REGULARLY between 30 seconds and 35 seconds later which suggests that the old 30 second cool down is still active, if this is true then im also curious to know if the new 20% wrath and 30% SF values have also not been put into practise.

Has anyone else found this?

Is Ghost aware of this?

Flamegrilled

 

heptadragon

I can't quote an immediate post off the top of my head, but the tooltip and previous posts have indicated that the extra crit comes from anyone's FF being up on the target.
I ran with only OoC and Moonglow in my build in BT tonight, no haste from gear and not using Eclipse in my rotation. I didn't have any mana issues on any fight, I drank one potion on Gorefiend. Granted, we didn't AoE very much trash and I don't have Starfall. I hope this helps ya.

 

Carnacki

Yes I remember the initial discussions debating whether the FF worked that way or not. I just couldn't find a post confirming/denying it.

Thanks for the feedback on mana. I ran up to kalecgos without mana regen talents but I actually used hurricane as a pseudo innervate any time we had more than three targets up so it's a bit hard to judge how things will pan out now.

 

Miim

Yeah, I think you basically want to avoid proccing eclipse with Wrath, and always wrath during eclipse.
Been reading more on different strategies, and Murmurs (on wow forums tc thread) has a new proposed spell rotation, ill keep track on it and this thread and hopefully stuff will make sence soon, cause atm I feel like lost child in a dark forest

 

Miim

I totally agree, as I mentioned earlier in this thread too.. a 55/0/16 build, "might" be slightly better for single target dps. Under perfect conditions, like no movement no damage etc. But a 66/0/5 build seems both more fun to play and gives a lot more tools to play with. So overall I hope that this will be a better build.

Maybe we will see people in 25 man go for 55/0/16 and 10 man owls will be 66/0/5.
I have pretty much decided to go 66/0/5 since it gives me all that I want.

I know intensity is good and that MS is a good boost, I just dont think its worth it. A combined Dreamstate and Moonglow should be enough. Based on this, that mana might not be a problem I feel that going deep in resto is not worth it. If however we will struggle with mana I will go down that path to. But not the other way around.

Edit: Typos.. and yeah there are more. I blame the lack of coffee in the morning.

 

pepparmint

I'm a bit sceptical about IFF and how it works aswell. I've searched around on these forums as well as on Blizzard's for an answer but unable to find anything that seems reliable.

I'm not convinced that FFF will give the crit % bonus of IFF seeing that the tooltip says: "...on targets afflicted by Faerie Fire" and the fact that the FFF spell is called "Faerie Fire (Feral)".


If anyone have some evidence (reliable testing or blue reply) then please let us know.
I've seen World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Improved FF is indeed affected by Feral FF but it seems a bit dubious to me.

 

Munorion

The sample size in that post is too small to exclude simple statistical variations.