Moonkin WotLK Talent Preview / Discussion - Page 65

sulliwan · 11/06/08, 1:53 PM

Originally Posted by erragal

Even at the very high crit rate and haste values, wrath still has higher DPET than Starfire, not including bloodlust. At 80 our highest DPS rotation will be using a glyphed + 2PT7 IS; all previous math has indicated that this will even surpass moonfire as our highest DPET spell. The problem really is just how significantly latency affects wrath/dot DPS compared to how useful the semi-queue system is with longer cast time spells. There's also huge benefits to anticipating bloodlusts and switching around to the Starfire eclipse buff right before: minimizing the wraths you cast during bloodlust that aren't getting anywhere near the full benefit.

Where is this information from?
What would you consider very high critrate and haste? 40% critrate and 25-30% haste is pretty much standard raidbuffed and will be pretty much the same at 80 and at that point starfire spam dps is about equal to wrath if you assume 0 lag. As soon as you add any lag at all, starfire just rockets ahead.

Polyamorous · 11/06/08, 2:02 PM

Originally Posted by nau

Yeah my paragraph was unclear and my last sentence was a complete flip of subject. I don't know if that 3% crit is worth the GBC of casting IS.

He was explaining that improved IS gives your starfire 3% crit when the MOONFIRE dot is up.

dedmonwakeen · 11/06/08, 2:06 PM

Originally Posted by Adoriele

Current functionality drops the GCD for an NG'd Wrath to 1.0s.

But what about the "minimum gcd" that is unaffected by haste? Does that also drop? Or does it stay hard-coded to 1.0sec too?

Eilt · 11/06/08, 2:14 PM

To my knowledge, there is no way to get the GCD below 1.0 unless a talent specifically says otherwise (there are 1 or 2 out there that do).

nau · 11/06/08, 2:14 PM

Originally Posted by Polyamorous

He was explaining that improved IS gives your starfire 3% crit when the MOONFIRE dot is up.

I am an idiot. I thought IS still had to be applied for the effect to happen.

Erdluf · 11/06/08, 2:20 PM

Eilt,

Those are good questions. The best way to answer is to see what you give up, vs. what you gain. I just opened a 70 WrathCalcs spreadsheet for the numbers used below. Your numbers might be different.

1) SF during Wrath Eclipse, to boost MF duration? Wrath, during eclipse, no IS, does 2257 DPS. SF, with MF up, averages 4970. In this case, it also buys an extra MF tick (757). DPS is (4970+757)/2.45 = 2338, so it looks like the refresh is better.

2) Cancelcast when Eclipse procs? At these levels losing 0.5s of casting time is over 1000 damage. Eclipse increases Wrath DPS by 387 or so. You gain less than 2.5s of extra Wrath benefit. I'd say the cancelcast is usually not worth it (unless you are very fast).

3) Refresh MF during Eclipse? You gain about 250 dps, plus about 250 instant damage. You lose about 1.1 Wrath casts. If there is more than eight or nine seconds left on Eclipse (or just say 50%), use MF now.

4) With MF every 15s to 27s, and IotRG raid-wide, IotRG is much better for raid DPS.

Erfin · 11/06/08, 2:34 PM

Originally Posted by Eilt

2. When I get an eclipse proc from Starfire I usually already have my next strafire being cast, is it worth is to cancel this starfire and switch straight to wrath, or is there a threshold of casting time where if I catch it before a certain time I should stop the cast, otherwise let the cast finish then start wrath spam?

2. Cancel the starfire and maximize eclipse proc time
3. Same as 2

You never never never interrupt casting. It is always a loss of dps. (Disclaimer, there are situations where you interrupt spellcasting; interrupts, stuns, heals, moving away from the red circle, etc. But never for increased dps.)

Napkin math: when casting starfire you use 2 seconds of eclipse time, and lets be generous, wrath has 30% more dps than starfire during eclipse. Also assume fast fast reaction to the proc, with low 0.1s latency. During 2 seconds starfire you do 100% starfire damage. With latency its 0.1s (latency for the crit notification) + reaction time + 0.1s (latency to start casting). Even with a fast fast reaction time of 0.3 seconds the actual wrath for the remaining 1.5 seconds would be (1.5*130%/2 =97.5% starfire damage). And finally, by interrupting the natures graced starfire you lose that benefit and actually cast a guaranteed max-duration wrath, reducing the dps much much more.

To recap, generally interrupting dps spell to cast another dps spell is always a bad idea, and in this case even more so.

Edit: fixed a tpyo

dedmonwakeen · 11/06/08, 2:39 PM

Originally Posted by Eilt

To my knowledge, there is no way to get the GCD below 1.0 unless a talent specifically says otherwise (there are 1 or 2 out there that do).

I thought there was some reference to this in early patch notes..... but I can't find it.

If 1.0 is a hard HARD gcd cap, then I guess the current SimulationCraft results stand.....

• Adoriele · 11/06/08, 2:43 PM

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

I thought there was some reference to this in early patch notes..... but I can't find it.

If 1.0 is a hard HARD gcd cap, then I guess the current SimulationCraft results stand.....

It's hard for everything other than the Earth Shock (Glyph?). We'd love for Blizz to soften it for us, but nothing's forthcoming on that.

[edit] Stupid multi-quote option mucked up.

erragal · 11/06/08, 2:50 PM

Originally Posted by sulliwan

Where is this information from?
What would you consider very high critrate and haste? 40% critrate and 25-30% haste is pretty much standard raidbuffed and will be pretty much the same at 80 and at that point starfire spam dps is about equal to wrath if you assume 0 lag. As soon as you add any lag at all, starfire just rockets ahead.

I just did the comparison at 50% crit (Very reasonable), 30% haste (Which at 80 will not happen as quickly as you surmise unless you are stat stacking), and 2000 spell power. Not including eclipse or IIS at all I got 3753.08 for wrath and 3639.92 for starfire: the theoretical DPET is still higher for wrath.

You're absolutely right that lag changes the ACTUAL results, but you can do the basic math to get those numbers instead of saying 'about equal'. You need to take into account that wrath has two built-in advantages before any gear: Starlight Wrath and NG. Both talents provide much larger benefits to Wrath than Starfire. Surely as your gear increases it minimizes this difference till you reach the threshold that Starfires' better network functionality is more important than the theoretical numbers.

dedmonwakeen · 11/06/08, 3:04 PM

Erragal asked me to add a profile without Faerie Fire..... and I was surprised to see that the SF_NoFF was not much better than the standard SF profile. The reason behind this is both a strength and weakness of SimulationCraft: Sometimes you want to model class synergy..... and sometimes it would easier if players behaved independently.

I have two Boomkin in the raid (_W and _SF) but they are smart enough to only refresh Faerie Fire when necessary. Perhaps due to the shorter cast times, the Wrath player is "noticing" that FF has fallen off before the Starfire player. So the bulk of the FF refreshes were being performed by the Wrath player..........

So.... I now have the following profiles: Wrath_FF, Wrath, and Starfire

This helped reduced the gap from ~500dps to ~300dps between Wrath-dominant and Starfire-dominant cast sequences

Player=Druid_58_0_13_SF  DPS=4566.4 (Error=+/-29.7 Range=+/-422)  DPR=18.7  RPS=244.7/238.3  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=89  agility=72  stamina=872  intellect=1079  spirit=601  health=12143  mana=18234
  Spell Stats:  power=2376  hit=14.1%  crit=18.4%  penetration=0  haste=14.5%  mp5=91
  Attack Stats:  power=158  hit=8.1%  crit=11.9%  expertise=0.0  penetration=0  haste=14.5%
  Actions:
    insect_swarm          Count= 20.2|14.2sec  DPE=5541| 9%  DPET=3954  DPR=20.6  Miss=0.0%  Tick=864
    moonfire              Count= 12.8|22.5sec  DPE=9102| 9%  DPET=6511  DPR=14.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 111  CritHit= 231| 231|38.4%  Tick=1267
    starfire              Count= 98.6| 2.9sec  DPE=9691|73%  DPET=4473  DPR=19.4  Miss=0.0%  Hit=5745  CritHit=12008|12008|63.0%
    wrath                 Count= 17.4|16.5sec  DPE=4798| 6%  DPET=3737  DPR=13.6  Miss=0.0%  Hit=3258  CritHit=6808|6813|43.4%
   treants
    treant_melee          Count= 34.0| 6.2sec  DPE=1316| 3%  DPET= 731  DPR= inf  Miss=1.1%  Hit=1454  CritHit=2911|2916|5.1%

Player=Druid_58_0_13_W  DPS=4261.7 (Error=+/-26.4 Range=+/-306)  DPR=15.1  RPS=281.6/265.8  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=89  agility=72  stamina=872  intellect=1079  spirit=601  health=12143  mana=18234
  Spell Stats:  power=2376  hit=14.1%  crit=18.4%  penetration=0  haste=14.5%  mp5=91
  Attack Stats:  power=158  hit=8.1%  crit=11.9%  expertise=0.0  penetration=0  haste=14.5%
  Actions:
    insect_swarm          Count= 20.5|14.0sec  DPE=5591| 9%  DPET=3993  DPR=19.6  Miss=0.0%  Tick=864
    moonfire              Count= 17.5|16.4sec  DPE=6654|10%  DPET=4753  DPR= 9.8  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 111  CritHit= 231| 231|38.6%  Tick=1267
    starfire              Count= 15.3|18.7sec  DPE=8767|11%  DPET=3916  DPR=17.2  Miss=0.0%  Hit=5745  CritHit=12008|12008|48.2%
    wrath                 Count=152.2| 1.9sec  DPE=5355|67%  DPET=4171  DPR=15.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=3595  CritHit=7502|8176|45.0%
   treants
    treant_melee          Count= 34.0| 6.2sec  DPE=1325| 4%  DPET= 736  DPR= inf  Miss=1.3%  Hit=1454  CritHit=2907|2916|5.4%

Player=Druid_58_0_13_W_FF  DPS=4115.8 (Error=+/-19.0 Range=+/-242)  DPR=14.7  RPS=279.7/263.1  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=89  agility=72  stamina=872  intellect=1079  spirit=601  health=12143  mana=18234
  Spell Stats:  power=2376  hit=14.1%  crit=18.4%  penetration=0  haste=14.5%  mp5=91
  Attack Stats:  power=158  hit=8.1%  crit=11.9%  expertise=0.0  penetration=0  haste=14.5%
  Actions:
    insect_swarm          Count= 20.4|14.1sec  DPE=5560|10%  DPET=3972  DPR=19.3  Miss=0.0%  Tick=864
    moonfire              Count= 17.3|16.6sec  DPE=6695|10%  DPET=4773  DPR= 9.9  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 111  CritHit= 231| 231|37.8%  Tick=1267
    starfire              Count= 14.3|20.1sec  DPE=8689|11%  DPET=3876  DPR=16.9  Miss=0.0%  Hit=5745  CritHit=12008|12008|47.0%
    wrath                 Count=145.7| 2.0sec  DPE=5382|66%  DPET=4194  DPR=15.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=3590  CritHit=7506|8176|45.8%
   treants
    treant_melee          Count= 34.0| 6.3sec  DPE=1332| 4%  DPET= 740  DPR= inf  Miss=0.8%  Hit=1458  CritHit=2914|2916|5.3%

• Adoriele · 11/06/08, 3:16 PM

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

So.... I now have the following profiles: Wrath_FF, Wrath, and Starfire

Yeah, to make life easier for modeling FF, I'm creating a non-talented Druid player whose sole job is refreshing FF. It's not as awesome as modeling an feral or resto putting it up, but at least the other druids won't have to worry about it, and let's be realistic. If you know your Feral or Resto is tasked with keeping it up (feral is best!), chances are you're not going to be looking for it and notice when it's down.

[edit] Ded, would it be possible to add a moonfire=extend option to Starfire? As an optional trigger so that you're only casting SF as long as it will extend Moonfire's timer (or when Eclipse is active/eclipse cooldown is up if you use an eclipse=OPTION).

Druidark · 11/06/08, 5:05 PM

It would be nice if they could give NG different effects for Wrath/Starfire or more radical, Nature/Arcane. Mmm.

◊ Lord BEEF · 11/06/08, 5:20 PM

At this point I think lowering the GCD on wrath to less than one second would be a bit too powerful, and definitely swing the balance of power too far towards wrath.

amped · 11/06/08, 5:34 PM

With the 3.0.3 patch released, I started using Squawk and Awe (amazing addon, thanks <3) with this spec:http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...03213335311231

For my rotation I would Trinket -> Treants -> Moonfire -> Wrath to get an eclipse Proc (typically 2-4 casts to proc), then Starfire until the Eclipse iCD was up, refreshing Moonfire whenever it ran out. The Eclipse internal CD is still 30 seconds, as I would occasionally be able to pre-cast a wrath to finish casting right as Eclipse came off it's iCD, and I would occasionally get a proc right away with a lucky crit.

With this rotation I had a near 50% uptime of 30% crit to starfire from Eclipse on straight-nuke bosses, and my DPS was peaking up around 4100 on Brutallus, with 3590 to finish. My guild stopped using WWS around 2 months ago, so I can't get a parse offhand, but maybe we will have one for next week's Sunwell clear.

With this rotation I have seen the most DPS from it as compared to MF, SFx3, WxN, which was significantly lower (200-250 less DPS on dummies).

My unbuffed stats in Moonkin form are:

1262 Arcane Spellpower
138 Hit (12 over hit cap with 2/2 BoP and Misery/iFF)
32.25 crit for SF (with 4xt6 bonus) 325 Crit rating
215 Haste.

Nemex <Optimus Prime> on Kel'Thuzad (US)

ryttingm · 11/06/08, 5:49 PM

I see a lot of people using simulationcraft to do much of their theory crafting. For some time now I've been running my own simulator written in java. I have spent a lot of time gathering empirical data to back up what I've read around the net and the simulator very accurately predicts my dps on the target dummies. I decided to slap a gui frontend to it and make it more publicly available for people to use. Currently my focus is druid self buffed dps. I have yet to add support for other classes. In addition, I have not implemented full trinket support (on use trinkets that buff spell damage are modeled), and I have not added any tier bonuses. If you are interested please check it out at

simwow - Google Code

I think some people will find it much less daunting than using simulationcraft.

-PapaSmurf

calekum · 11/06/08, 6:09 PM

Originally Posted by Marauding Master

The more targets you'll aquire, the more crits you'll do, thus, more you'll regenerate.

This was removed in 3.03.

No more mana return procs off of AoE crits. However, not sure it matters much. Normal regen with Dreamstate/Intensity will take care of loss from AoE spells.

dedmonwakeen · 11/06/08, 7:37 PM

Originally Posted by ryttingm

I see a lot of people using simulationcraft to do much of their theory crafting. For some time now I've been running my own simulator written in java. I have spent a lot of time gathering empirical data to back up what I've read around the net and the simulator very accurately predicts my dps on the target dummies. I decided to slap a gui frontend to it and make it more publicly available for people to use. Currently my focus is druid self buffed dps. I have yet to add support for other classes. In addition, I have not implemented full trinket support (on use trinkets that buff spell damage are modeled), and I have not added any tier bonuses.

Glad to see more people investing in TC tools..... especially simulators because that enables us to audit each other. More tools agreeing means more confidence in the results.

One recommendation I'd make that isn't too hard to change: Instead of simulating one really long fight, pick a fight duration and iterate a whole bunch of times. This helps you analyze mana concerns as well as target-health based effects such as Molten Fury and Execute.

Another recommendation that is a bit harder: Some classes have considerable flexibility in choosing a cast priority sequence. While it may be possible to hard-code something reasonable for Boomkin, this becomes infeasible if you choose to extend support to other classes.

Anyway..... best of luck!

• Adoriele · 11/06/08, 8:06 PM

Alright, I ran a ton of sims to get an idea of how the talent specs play out, and here's some results:

The 61/0/0 specs were all the same, Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft. The differences between them are the Eclipse rotations. The names are of the form 61-0-0-<Pre-eclipse>-<Eclipse>-<Post-Eclipse>, where each of those is the spell you use during that phase, i.e. 61-0-0-W-SF-SF only uses Wrath to proc Eclipse, SF at all other times. The special case of NO_IS is exactly what it seems like: The druid didn't cast IS at all. If we can get a wrath=trigger option or something similar to allow for rotations that only cast IS if Wrath would be the next nuke used, I'll test that out in the future.

The 48/0/12 +1-CF specs are mostly of the form Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft, but with the point in Eclipse moved around to FoN and Splendor to show the relative differences, with one spec showing the difference between using iIS and iIF. The 48/0/12+1-NO_CF specs are of the form Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft, with the extra point flipping between Eclipse and OoC. There's also a spec showing the difference between iIS and Brambles this time.

One note: iFF does not seem to grant personal benefit with another druid's FF on the target. Given

Player=Druid_48-0-13-CF-Eclipse  DPS=2728.4 (Error=+/-5.4 Range=+/-298)  DPR=17.7  RPS=154.5/140.5  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=89  agility=72  stamina=490  intellect=575  spirit=303  health=8315  mana=9648
  Spell Stats:  power=1414  hit=14.7%  crit=21.5%  penetration=0  haste=6.3%  mp5=99
  Attack Stats:  power=158  hit=8.6%  crit=15.2%  expertise=0.0  penetration=0  haste=6.3%
  Actions:
    moonfire              Count= 14.8|19.7sec  DPE=5638|10%  DPET=3796  DPR=13.1  Miss=0.0%  Hit=  80  CritHit= 168| 170|49.6%  Tick=892
    starfire              Count= 96.0| 3.0sec  DPE=6333|76%  DPET=2739  DPR=19.9  Miss=0.0%  Hit=3695  CritHit=7723|7723|65.5%
    wrath                 Count= 35.0| 8.4sec  DPE=3029|13%  DPET=2293  DPR=13.2  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2012  CritHit=4206|4212|46.3%

Player=Druid_48-0-13-CF-Eclipse-iFF  DPS=2687.3 (Error=+/-5.4 Range=+/-289)  DPR=17.4  RPS=154.1/138.8  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=89  agility=72  stamina=490  intellect=575  spirit=303  health=8315  mana=9648
  Spell Stats:  power=1414  hit=14.7%  crit=21.5%  penetration=0  haste=6.3%  mp5=99
  Attack Stats:  power=158  hit=8.6%  crit=15.2%  expertise=0.0  penetration=0  haste=6.3%
  Actions:
    moonfire              Count= 14.9|19.7sec  DPE=5623|11%  DPET=3785  DPR=13.1  Miss=0.0%  Hit=  80  CritHit= 168| 170|49.2%  Tick=892
    starfire              Count= 95.6| 3.1sec  DPE=6231|76%  DPET=2684  DPR=19.6  Miss=0.0%  Hit=3695  CritHit=7723|7723|62.9%
    wrath                 Count= 34.9| 8.4sec  DPE=3039|14%  DPET=2301  DPR=13.3  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2011  CritHit=4207|4212|46.8%

which are two specs whose only difference is iIS vs. iFF, you can see that the crit percentage for every spell is almost exactly the same, except for Starfire, whose crit percentage is almost exactly 3% higher on the iIS version. If iFF affected personal crit no matter whose FF was on the target, SF would match, but the other spells would all be 3% higher. Because of this, I'm tentatively figuring that iFF would probably give a better benefit if the simulator is inconsistent with Live (which we don't know yet).

I'm attaching the input and outputs to the post so people can pick over them if they like. Rename the chart.txt to chart.html to get it to show up correctly.

ryttingm · 11/06/08, 8:10 PM

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

Glad to see more people investing in TC tools..... especially simulators because that enables us to audit each other. More tools agreeing means more confidence in the results.

One recommendation I'd make that isn't too hard to change: Instead of simulating one really long fight, pick a fight duration and iterate a whole bunch of times. This helps you analyze mana concerns as well as target-health based effects such as Molten Fury and Execute.

Another recommendation that is a bit harder: Some classes have considerable flexibility in choosing a cast priority sequence. While it may be possible to hard-code something reasonable for Boomkin, this becomes infeasible if you choose to extend support to other classes.

Anyway..... best of luck!

Thanks,

Fight length and number of iterations are completely customizable. It defaults to 10,000 iterations on a mob with 500,000 HP but you can change that on the basic form.

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

Another recommendation that is a bit harder: Some classes have considerable flexibility in choosing a cast priority sequence. While it may be possible to hard-code something reasonable for Boomkin, this becomes infeasible if you choose to extend support to other classes.

I've actually thought about embedding a code fragment in the gui to allow for arbitrary casting sequences. The casting sequence can of course be changed in the java code. Right now my cast sequence looks like this.

                if (!target.hasDebuff("FaerieFire") && useFaerieFire) {
                        faerieFire.cast(target);
                } else if (!target.hasDebuff("InsectSwarm") && useInsectSwarm) {
                        insectSwarm.cast(target);
                } else if (!target.hasDebuff("Moonfire") && useMoonfire) {
                        moonfire.cast(target);
                } else if (eclipseCooldownTimer > 0) {
                        trinket1.use();
                        trinket2.use();
                        if (useStarfire) {
                                wrath.cast(target);
                        } else {
                                starfire.cast(target);
                        }
                } else {
                        trinket1.use();
                        trinket2.use();
                        if (useStarfire) {
                                starfire.cast(target);
                        } else {
                                wrath.cast(target);
                        }
                }

The eclipseCooldownTimer will only be greater than 0 if eclipse is actually enabled in the talents.

dedmonwakeen · 11/06/08, 8:39 PM

Adoriele, thanks for the detailed analysis...... It looks like I'm giving the iFF crit to all the druids if FF is put up by someone with the iFF talent...... bah. I'll have that fixed tonight.

As far as action priority goes, it is difficult for me to make decisions on the "next spell"....... but perhaps we could add conditionals to IF that look at the status of the eclipse buff/cd.

• Adoriele · 11/06/08, 8:52 PM

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

As far as action priority goes, it is difficult for me to make decisions on the "next spell"....... but perhaps we could add conditionals to IF that look at the status of the eclipse buff/cd.

Is there any way for one spell to know the "readiness" of another spell? I.E. when I'm checking the ready() function for IS, it also checks the ready() function for Wrath. Ideally, Wrath's ready() would only return true if it was the next spell to be cast.

For example, given

/insect_swarm,trigger=wrath/wrath,eclipse=trigger/Starfire

wrath's ready() would only return true if Eclipse's cooldown was up, making it the next spell to be cast.

dedmonwakeen · 11/06/08, 9:32 PM

Originally Posted by Adoriele

Is there any way for one spell to know the "readiness" of another spell? I.E. when I'm checking the ready() function for IS, it also checks the ready() function for Wrath. Ideally, Wrath's ready() would only return true if it was the next spell to be cast.

For example, given

/insect_swarm,trigger=wrath/wrath,eclipse=trigger/Starfire

wrath's ready() would only return true if Eclipse's cooldown was up, making it the next spell to be cast.

Hmmm..... Yes, actually this is quite possible. I can look for a wrath in the prio list after the insect_swarm and call its ready() function.

Hmmm.... Can you imagine multiple wrath invocations in the prio list with different conditionals?

Zifrelm · 11/06/08, 10:08 PM

Someone a couple pages ago said that we shouldn't be considering FF in our optimal rotations... I beg to differ - you can't always assume a spriest will be present, because a lot of people are going to be doing a more 10-mans in Wrath, since there are more of them and with better loot. (To make a BC comparison, while you'll never have Sunwell quality loot from at 10-man, you'll have BT quality loot, so even top tier raiders will be running 10-mans to fill in the gaps in their gear.) While it's certainly worthwhile to see the best we can do in ideal situations (i.e. a spriest in the raid), it's also important that we consider what it will do to our rotations when we do have to maintain iFF.

And now a random FF-related question: if another druid casts FF over yours, does it refresh the timer or occupy a different debuff slot?

• Adoriele · 11/06/08, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

Hmmm..... Yes, actually this is quite possible. I can look for a wrath in the prio list after the insect_swarm and call its ready() function.

Hmmm.... Can you imagine multiple wrath invocations in the prio list with different conditionals?

Not Wrath, but Starfire, if there ends up being a conditional for adding ticks to Moonfire with the glyph. Using Moonfire only when you're going to be casting SF isn't good, though, so I doubt you'll have to do a ready check for it in any other spells.