Feral talents/abilities - WotLK discussion - Page 10

Balancemoon · 06/09/08, 1:40 PM

Originally Posted by Jone

The reference I've seen to that says it was done on a private server, so my guess is the private server was sloppy about armor mechanics.

I shall enquire from someone who has access to the actual ALpha, it would be sooooo cool it this was true. Certainly lend more weight to those Priest and Shaman abilities that give armor, although it would be good if they added a general damage mitigation that was outside the normal cap, or at least buffs could allow your Armor reduction to be higher than the normal cap, by temporarily extending the cap for their duration to 80 maybe even 85 or 90% if you were already maxed out on armor.

Apaine · 06/09/08, 3:07 PM

Originally Posted by Balancemoon

I shall enquire from someone who has access to the actual ALpha, it would be sooooo cool it this was true. Certainly lend more weight to those Priest and Shaman abilities that give armor, although it would be good if they added a general damage mitigation that was outside the normal cap, or at least buffs could allow your Armor reduction to be higher than the normal cap, by temporarily extending the cap for their duration to 80 maybe even 85 or 90% if you were already maxed out on armor.

And make rogues itch with excitement when they apply their 3k expose armor on you? On that private server, expose armor reduced tree's armor from 16k to just under 6k. If it were to apply to bear too, then no rogue would loose to a feral druid anymore in PvP.

Except for armor patches, there aren't too many buffs that increase armor. Only one I can think of is MotW. I'd rather have the old behaviour of natural armor only... rather than giving warriors and rogues a free ticket to killing us via sunder armor and expose armor.

Duilliath · 06/09/08, 7:26 PM

Reminds me of the old bug where Sunders and Expose Armour indeed reduced base armour instead of final armour.

That one was fixed quickly enough.

smellme · 06/10/08, 7:52 AM

Originally Posted by Grizlock

"cannot be stopped"

Slow != Stop

Have you ever actualy done pvp against a BM hunter and his pet? you cannot slow the pet or the Hunter:

Chill effects
Crippling poison
Frost shock
Grounding totem
Hamstring
Wingclip

And many others, please explain to me why a BM hunter or their pet cannot be slowed then? is it a bug or is it because "cannot be stopped" means you cannot be slowed also?

You decide there champ.

Apaine · 06/10/08, 8:34 AM

Originally Posted by Mijae

According to the WotLK wiki:

"Enrage" is a bear form ability. Unless they also give it a cat form use I don't see why it would be usable in cat. I have not seen any changes posted related to it.

Let me add Enrage has very short cooldown too (1 min?)... so adding cat utility to that when combined with enormous 60 energy from tiger's fury would be a huge boost to dps on demand..

Tembetyu · 06/11/08, 10:22 PM

The Berserk talent reads the same as the BM hunter talent, meaning you're immune to slows like wing clip, frost trap, etc.

Also of note is that on top of the decreased energy cost/increased targets hit it gives you 30% more hp in both forms. I could see the buff being present when you change forms between cat/caster/bear.

Merple · 06/12/08, 3:05 PM

Random thought, but I'd really like a change to Innervate that extends to include Rage and Energy as well. I think it would really extend the possibilities of the skill to allow for burst threat, burst DPS, and of course, reloading a mana bar.

• sadris · 06/13/08, 11:16 AM

I think making it useful for all mana-using classes should come first. Only 2 classes actually have spirit on their gear. Making it work like mana tide would be a big improvement (% of overall mana).

Plus PVP gear has no spirit =(

Nitz · 06/14/08, 4:25 PM

Feral tanking seems even more directed toward high-threat tanking with King of the Jungle, Primal Aggression and Imp. Mangle (Mangle > Lacerate/Swipe > Lacerate/Swipe > 0.3 sec > Mangle). Adding a 6% SotF and negating our need of crit-caping (thus adding even more health or threat), I think bears will have a pretty good time on non-gimmicky encounters (read: primary physical damage, no Shear-like abilities).

EDIT: Not to mention the 4% damage of Master Shapeshifter !

Ja7us · 06/14/08, 4:44 PM

Originally Posted by sadris

I think making it useful for all mana-using classes should come first. Only 2 classes actually have spirit on their gear. Making it work like mana tide would be a big improvement (% of overall mana).

Plus PVP gear has no spirit =(

Unless it was 100%+ mana gained over the duration, this change would be a nerf to innervate when used on PvE Druids and Priests, though.

• sadris · 06/14/08, 7:40 PM

Priests and Druids haven't had mana problems since the 2.4 regen changes, so its a moot point.

Originally Posted by Nitz

Feral tanking seems even more directed toward high-threat tanking with King of the Jungle, Primal Aggression and Imp. Mangle (Mangle > Lacerate/Swipe > Lacerate/Swipe > 0.3 sec > Mangle). Adding a 6% SotF and negating our need of crit-caping (thus adding even more health or threat), I think bears will have a pretty good time on non-gimmicky encounters (read: primary physical damage, no Shear-like abilities).

EDIT: Not to mention the 4% damage (4% threat) of Master Shapeshifter !

Has there been any word on an increase in the base threat caused in bear form? Warriors get +15% for free (previously a talent).

Mijae · 06/14/08, 8:08 PM

Originally Posted by Nitz

Feral tanking seems even more directed toward high-threat tanking with King of the Jungle, Primal Aggression and Imp. Mangle (Mangle > Lacerate/Swipe > Lacerate/Swipe > 0.3 sec > Mangle). Adding a 6% SotF and negating our need of crit-caping (thus adding even more health or threat), I think bears will have a pretty good time on non-gimmicky encounters (read: primary physical damage, no Shear-like abilities).

EDIT: Not to mention the 4% damage (4% threat) of Master Shapeshifter !

4% damage != 4% threat

Oaken · 06/14/08, 8:59 PM

Originally Posted by Mijae

There are a few choices that will need to be made at 80, but you can get pretty much all the essentials for both bear and cat. I'm currently working on updating my spreadsheet to support the new talents. I am seeing a very large issue of having a build to support both at 70 though. This is assuming they introduce the talents before the expansion, similar to what they did for TBC.

Well, certainly after the expansion it won't be a big deal. For anybody with a decent level of tanking raid gear you'll outgear any of the levelling 5-mans so you can level 70-80 focused on kitty dps for soloing and the probably use the same spec just fine for instancing.

Pre-xp it isn't likely to be a big deal either, at least not if you are in Sunwell. Unfortunately the isntances are so tight in terms of tuning I'm seeing pretty much zero action as cat-dps because we just can't come close to what you need for Brut, etc. So if the talent trees come out prior to WotLK it will be tanking talents to the end of the tree and then a quick respec the moment the xp hits.

Nitz · 06/15/08, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by sadris

Has there been any word on an increase in the base threat caused in bear form? Warriors get +15% for free (previously a talent).

Since Feral Instinct is still there, I don't think we get a base threat increase after the 30% we already have in Bear Form.

• sadris · 06/16/08, 1:25 PM

Originally Posted by Nitz

Since Feral Instinct is still there, I don't think we get a base threat increase after the 30% we already have in Bear Form.

Ah it looks like they changed Defiance into more prot warrior damage and then added that threat by default into Def Stance. I thought they had increased overall warrior threat due to rapidly increasing DPS in the expo.