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Old 09/06/08, 5:46 AM   #1621
Vaccine
Mr. Sandman
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Originally Posted by sadris View Post
The important thing to note is that you are now required to have 3/3 instead of 1/3 to be able to get a full AS reduction.

Pretty much a worthless talent at this point as other classes can duplicate the same effect for less point deletion.

Yer this was the point I came here to make. They obviously saw most people were putting 1/3 in the talent. As it is for 3 points I'll let the thunderclap, judgement of the just or icy touch do the job instead and use the talents elsewhere.

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Old 09/06/08, 9:36 AM   #1622
Disargeria
Piston Honda
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Boulderfist
Maybe they're assuming that we'll already be swimming in hit rating, since it's on almost all leather dps gear as it is.
I don't think that's going to be too much of a problem. Here's the first two leather drops we can see from Naxx:

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...tackgloves.jpg
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...sofdiscord.jpg

And also this blue post from a while back:

We are aware of the concerns with reaching the hit rating cap, and will make sure Druids can pick up Rogue items to wear without exceeding that cap. This means Rogues will likely socket for hit, while Druids socket for Strength or Agility.

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Old 09/06/08, 10:16 AM   #1623
Kazanir
Mr. Sandman
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Other than Kings, is there some particular reason that Str is better than AP?

'War' is too small a word for what I'm fighting. Like a candle in front of the whole burning Sun. Now, I am not going to die today. I have other projects, and other options.

You can come with me. I can protect you.

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Old 09/06/08, 10:22 AM   #1624
Itartass
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Burning Legion (EU)
I don't really follow what's meant by the part about keeping energy here:

Furor (Tier 1) changed to: Gives you 20/40/60/80/100% chance to gain 10 Rage when you shapeshift into Bear and Dire Bear Form, and you keep up to 20/40/60/80/100 of your Energy when you shapeshift into Cat Form, and increases your total Intellect while in Moonkin form by 2/4/6/8/10%.
Does it say that 5/5 points gives 100 energy from the start every time I shapshift into Cat (except powershifting)?

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Old 09/06/08, 10:35 AM   #1625
Moof
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Chamber of Aspects (EU)
From what I have gathered, it doesn't grant you extra energy, rather it simply lets you retain any energy you have naturally generated while out of cat form (since energy will now continue to regenerate regardless of forms)

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Old 09/06/08, 10:36 AM   #1626
cana
Von Kaiser
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Alleria (EU)
Edit: I was too slow

Just a short example:
Shifting to Bearform directly after FB (so with 0 energy). After 10s your "hidden energybar" is at 100.
Without the Furor talent all your energy is lost by the time you shift into Cat.
With the Furor talent you keep up to 100 energy of your "hidden energybar" when you shift into Cat.
There is no gain of energy like it is in live at the moment, just no loss of energy after e.g. a Rebirth or something.

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Old 09/06/08, 11:06 AM   #1627
Schnigges
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Zuluhed (EU)
Originally Posted by Kazanir View Post
Other than Kings, is there some particular reason that Str is better than AP?
SotF, which is another 6%, and makes it a 1.166 multiplier with both up.

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Old 09/06/08, 12:03 PM   #1628
Dyvozvir
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Turalyon (EU)
There is 606 AP on our new t7, so replacing it with 303 str it will give us 50,3 extra AP.
That will be a nice change, in addition feral druids might want it over crossclass leather gear.
However we will want our set for extra bonuses anyway.

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Old 09/06/08, 12:26 PM   #1629
Duilliath
Great Tiger
 
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Duilliath
Night Elf Druid
 
No WoW Account (EU)
What bugs me... with that recent IW change, it's getting even harder to find all the needed talent points.
Where we could skimp on filling that one out and at least get the benefit, now it's either 0 or 3. I feel it only adds more bloat where they should really be shrinking the tree a bit.

It's quite frankly really annoying that even if I focus on 'one side' of the spec, I still find myself short some 5 talent points continuously before I can consider having all the important stuff maxed.

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Old 09/06/08, 1:14 PM   #1630
Tappin
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by cana View Post
Edit: I was too slow

Just a short example:
Shifting to Bearform directly after FB (so with 0 energy). After 10s your "hidden energybar" is at 100.
Without the Furor talent all your energy is lost by the time you shift into Cat.
With the Furor talent you keep up to 100 energy of your "hidden energybar" when you shift into Cat.
There is no gain of energy like it is in live at the moment, just no loss of energy after e.g. a Rebirth or something.
This forgets travel time, where you would be regenerating energy.

For pvp it's great: Cyclone, root, lifebloom, cyclone again, cat (+100 energy minus any travel time). Cat, focused so bear (+10 rage), left alone after beating on a bear a while so cat (+100 energy minus any travel time).

For soloing it's nice (heal yourself running to next mob, cat form with 100 energy).

For bear form pve:
For trash pulls, the 10 energy is nice but could probably be worked around using KotJ and/or creative pulls (wrath, root, bear?)
For boss fights, you'll likely use it once. Even if you use it several times, it will likely be an insignifcant amount of rage compared to MT rage generation.
For Gruul style sponge fights it might be more useful, since you'll be rage starved.

For the cat form portion pve, it's probably not as valuable as most other dps talents:

a) On a pure dps cat fight where you don't offtank, battle rez or innervate, you would gain 0 energy.

b) A furor friendly fight would probalby look like: 1) offtank then travel 2 seconds to boss: 80 energy gained. 2) innervate someone (remembering to wait for empty energy bar) with no travel time... 30 energy gained. 3) emergency battle rez, wasting a half full energy bar, running 2 seconds to the person and 2 seconds back: 80 energy gained.

190 energy gained for, say, a 5 minute fight. About .5 energy per second. We currently gain about 12 energy per second when you factor in omen procs. So it's about a 5% increase to our energy moves, or about a 3% increase in damage?

I think it's safe to say that on pve boss style fights, furor will increase your damage somewhere as little as 0 and rarely as much as 4% for 5 talent points?

That said, I don't see that we have much choice unless they change the resto tree around. And it is tier 1. The old talent with powershifting was definitely an underranked talent for its value.

Last edited by Tappin : 09/06/08 at 1:38 PM.

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Old 09/06/08, 1:26 PM   #1631
Mijae
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Krag View Post
So, according to MMO-Champion:

Infected Wounds (Tier 8 ) changed to: Your Shred, Maul, and Mangle attacks cause an Infected Wound in the target. The Infected Wound reduces the movement speed of the target by 8/17/25% and the attack speed by 8/17/25%. Stacks up to 2 times. Lasts 12 sec.

I have to think the attack speed reduction was supposed to be something like 3/6/10%, but down to stacking only twice seems like a nice change.
Assuming the cap is still 20%, you would only need 2 points to get full affect in PvE and 1 point isn't too bad for a backup at 16%.

Originally Posted by Cuer View Post
First look at the feral Druid set in 10 man Naxx:

It's interesting that the set has a bit of the standard stats, including a nice chunk of Expertise and a bit of Armor Penetration, but no Hit Rating.
It might actually have too much expertise. While a good amount would be nice for bear, if we're sharing other rogue items for cat we could end up in the same spot as capping hit rating, especially since the cap is lower. It could just make Primal Precision worthless for cat.


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Old 09/06/08, 2:12 PM   #1632
angral
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Mijae View Post
It could just make Primal Precision worthless for cat.
This is a good thing (tm).

The more talent points I can replace with gear the happier I am.

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Old 09/06/08, 2:45 PM   #1633
Tappin
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by angral View Post
This is a good thing (tm).

The more talent points I can replace with gear the happier I am.
I would only agree with this if there were other 2 point talents nearly as valuable for you to pick up. Take your planned WotLK build including precision. Now pretend you're expertise capped. How much benefit will those 2 talent points you didn't already have (obviously not very good points or you would already have them?) get you?

Now compare that to what you'd get if they'd spent our item budget on something that didn't make the talent obsolete. According to wowhead, 10 expertise takes about 93 expertise rating at 80. If they had, say, spent that 93 points of item budget on strength instead of expertise, what 2 talent points would you gain that would be as good at that much strength?

That said, I appreciate that they gave us expertise while they gave other tanks hit rating. They gave us a stat that offers less damage taken and more dps. I just hope it doesn't make this talent obsolete. From a value standpoint, these 2 points are pretty serious 'bang for your buck'.

Last edited by Tappin : 09/06/08 at 3:00 PM.

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Old 09/06/08, 3:06 PM   #1634
Cuer
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Earthen Ring
Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
It's quite frankly really annoying that even if I focus on 'one side' of the spec, I still find myself short some 5 talent points continuously before I can consider having all the important stuff maxed.
That is quite intentional, and will continue further once all the talents are rolled out. We've only seen the bear-specific talents so far (Mother Bear and Natural Reaction.) There will almost certainly be some cat-specific talents added to boost DPS there, as well.

The developers have made it pretty clear that they want cat DPS to be relatively higher than it has been (they called it "terrible on live"), and to have bear tanks be as capable as any of the other 3 tank classes in LK. But to make them both capable of performing at that level, any individual feral character will have to choose between focusing on cat DPS or bear tanking talents. This is certainly a different sort of setup than what we've been used to from TBC. But if that means that both bear and cat forms can perform around the same levels as other classes in their respective roles, it's a good thing in my book.

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Old 09/06/08, 3:49 PM   #1635
Falk
Soda Popinski
 
Falk
Night Elf Druid
 
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http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/4...anstaffrk6.jpg

An upgrade from SSC staff!

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