Sephreth

Thanks

 

Mijae

I hit a bug with the debuff display. Somehow I got stuck with SR, Rip, and Rake all showing active but not counting down. The damage wasn't ticking, so it it must have just been the display. Just before it happened I somehow got full energy after using a Rip.
Edit: it seems to be occurring after an OoC proc that I suddenly get full energy.


Also, a suggestion - could you keep track and display the uptime percentage of each debuff/DoT?

Feral DruidStats spreadsheet
v3.2.0.0.xls - updated 8/4/2009

 

Melthu

It seems to happen if you stop the simulation with Rake, Mangle, Rip, or Savage Roar still running and then try to restart it. They don't get cleared properly and display if you start the sim back up, but they don't actually do anything, it's just a display issue. OOC and combo points are wiped correctly, so this is probably an easy issue to fix.

 

halmmar

Not worth reading.

--

(1-0.75^ppm should be correct if I'm thinking clearly - 15/60 sec uptime is 45/60 downtime on a 1ppm mongoose proc)

You get 1.25 ppm in cat form (15 specials, 1/60 chance to proc each).
That should mean 1-0.75^1.25 = 30% uptime for 120 agi -> 36 agi avg (+some haste).

As far as I know, you only get one try to proc mongoose per swipe, right? (Comment in article assumed 2 tries to proc each special used).
You get 2.67 ppm in bear form (40 specials, 2.5/60 chance to proc each).
1-0.75^2.67 = 46% uptime -> 55 agi avg (+some haste)


In short, mongoose is good for bear, about equal for kitty.

 

nightcrowler

@summlan_ about the simulator.

can you try to include gcd (1.0 seconds, something like making buttons unclickable or so)?
Also 30% damage reduction is too high, a more usual value will be around 26% (10900 armor - 5xsunder - FFF), did you take into account armor pen?

FB damage seems a bit low, are you tanking minimum damage or average damage (like me)?

 

• Falk

Executioner got shizzowned pretty hard by the conversion of armor penetration into a rating. While feral gets not much bang out of haste, the Agility proc on Mongoose is pretty awesome.

 

Leafkiller

Seminarca, since this is a level 70 build, have you thought about taking a point out of SotF (going 2/3) instead of taking one out of Imp LotP for maxing Feral Aggression? Making up 1.6% crit immunity should be very easy, and the bear value for each point in SotF is very low once you are crit immune per the bear skill analysis people have been posting.

 

Phorage

Is max single target TPS rotation with unlimited rage still: keep mangle and 5xlacerate up and then swipe and maul as much as possible?

What about rage starved? Only Mangle and Maul?

What did you use in your simulator Nightcrowler?

 

Tappin

I would like to see all the math too, (at work, so I can't work on it right now) but based on the excellent new multipliers for a mangle'd bleeding maul, I'd guess max single target threat with limited rage would look like (assumes player will have savage fury and rend and tear):

Mangle whenever it's up. Lacerate enough to keep a 5 stack going (to get the extra 20% from RnT and because a 12+ second 5 stack is a lot of threat per rage). Maul if you have rage after those. You're losing a little rage gain from white hits. But maul is a lot more threat than swipe now.

With nourish, sanctuary, and 3 rage per dodge, it doesn't seem like rage-starved happens nearly as often.

With multi-tanking, rage per dodge and rage per crit per mob, rage is plentiful.

And if things get scary threat-wise, we'll have beserk and hunter/rogue misdirects. If it's just one person, they can lay off or get a paladin to give them threat-love.

 

Scurn

When the GCD was included a bug was introduced where if OoC procs while in the global cooldown and you hit a button, it consumes the proc but doesn't actually do any attacks. Other than this it's really fun to play around with. The best I can do is holding steady around 4600dps with some obvious spiking during Berserk.

For Tangedyn/Nightcrowler, what %uptime should we be aiming for with mangle/rake/rip/SR?

For my best attempts I'm usually around:
Mangle - 98%
Rake - 90%
Rip - 80%
SR - 96-98%

Also during Berserk I've been ignoring FB and just shredding away while everything else is up. Should I try to work it in? Seems like too much of a hassle with the reduced energy.

 

david0925

FB is going to be your best DPE move when you have 3 more or combo points. The concern is really not losing savage roar when berserk is about to expire so that you break your cycle going from 1/2 energy requirement on everything to full energy requirement on everything.

I'll play around with the sim later, but performing savage roar as last action during a berserk if savage roar is falling under 10 seconds is pretty safe to guarantee you get out of the berserk period with a healthy cycle.

Maniq is my hero

 

Scurn

Well the main concern is that while the 35 energy for the FB is the best DPE, the addition energy conversion is terrible especially while under Berserk. Using TF immediately before Berserk and getting a couple of omen procs leads to a lot of excess energy that I don't really want to spend on the FB conversion. If I can get down to 18 energy I would agree with you but above that I'm not so sure.

 

david0925

When you are under berserk you don't really need to play "save the energy" mode to reapply rake and mangle because they'll take 17 energy to reapply. This means that even when you have horrible luck/timing (namely you are careless and let your energy hit 0 when one of them just expires.) It'll only take less than 2 seconds to reapply. The goal is definitely not using FB when you have more than 17 energy, but at least one extra FB should be achievable.

In any case, I'll play around with sim more and see how well I can time and predict that. It is possible that trying to fit another FB in there is difficult.

Maniq is my hero

 

summlan

Ops, forgot some code.

Fixed the OOC bug and added some graphics for the feeling.
But its alot more fun with infinite energy or 80% haste.

 

tlbj6142

Could you add a quest book, in-game chat, AH and creepy background music?

 

Mijae

If you're not using FB your Rip uptime should be much higher. If you are, Rip would probably be a bit lower. With 3 finishers in up to 34 seconds and Rip lasting 19 seconds it could be as low as 55%-60%. It's quite hard to break the habit of immediately refreshing Rip.

Rake uptime is going to depend on timing. If the DoT wears off at same time as using a finisher, you'll need to wait a GCD. Otherwise, you should be saving energy to refresh it right away. 90% might be a little low, but close.

Feral DruidStats spreadsheet
v3.2.0.0.xls - updated 8/4/2009

 

summlan

Im using your code so i guess its average damage. I really have to add the range for abilities and white damage, feels
so dull to hit for the same amount every time.

 

david0925

Do you have Feral Aggression as part of the talent, because the last time I played on your sim I did not see that factored in talent included. If we're doing 5/5/5 we'll need FA talent.

Using average number for DPS is fine, over statistically significant amount of data the number will land there anyway.

Maniq is my hero

 

Huggme

Simply awesome, I love it.

Could you add possibility to bind abilities to keys? I think that would make your sim pretty powerful learning tool aswell (to practice cycles with actual ingame bindings).

So far (after playing with sim for a few hours) I have found out 5/5/5 to work the best but when I get unlucky with crits/ooc I switch to 2SR/5RIP for one cycle and then go back to 5/5/5. 4.7k ish

 

summlan

@david0925
Yes FA is included. Forgot to add it to the talentlist.

@Huggme.
Good idea!
Il see if i can make it work.

edit: Looked it up and its not possible to change keybinds at runtime the way ive built it. Id have to change a whole lot to make it work.
Its very easy to change keybinds in the flash tho, so if someone wants their own keybinds just pm me with what keybinds you want and il upload your own version of the simulator and send you the link.
And il make a index-page where you can choose which keybind-config you want to use.
Since im using some very strange keybinds i went for the most usual 1-7 and B as in Berserk ofc.

Or you could install flash 8 and download the source-files and change it yourself. Flash is easy to understand and if youve got any programming-skills in java, c, c#, c++, python, php or asp youl figure it out in a second.

Edit again:
ALT wont work for keybinds.
Its like this, all combination of buttons that actually put a character on your screen works.
SHIFT+1 works since pressing those buttons in notepad makes "!". CTRL+1 wont work since pressing those buttons
in notepad gives you nothing.
So think about that before you PM me about keybinds. No ALT, CTRL, CAPS LOCK, INSERT etc. in your keybinds please, since it wont work.
ALTGR+2 might work but i hope you dont use ALTGR for your keybinds.

Btw. added a little surprise to the simulator.

 

Enoon

During the Q&A part of the first class panel @ Blizzcon a lovely young lady wearing a tshirt disclaiming "Druids do it animal style" mentioned our concerns with mana in PvP due to lack of Int on PvP gear. The man himself GC was on the panel and stated they were aware of the issue and were watching it,

Another question was asked about ferals in arena to which GC replied they are not sure exactly what ferals may be lacking in arenas but that there were not many Ferals in arenas on Beta to pull data from.

That was the gist of what he had to say that I can recall, hopefully other Druids there will chime in case I forgot something or misquoted his replies in error.

 

cana

I think I missed the link to Summlan's Flash simulator, all I could find was a .rar-file (http://d9550218.u125.surftown.se/summlan/FERALDPS.rar) with some Flash source-files which I can't open.
Is there any precompiled version out there, or could any one recommend a tool to compile it myself?

Thanks.

 

Krag

 

seminarca

I read on the beta forums that they don't want to put Intellect on Feral gear (which is great for us from an itemization perspective). So seeing as they've said they are aware of the issue we can pretty much expect a [Random Stat] > Int/Mana conversion sometime soon (hopefully replacing the 20% extra Int in HotW as we have been asking for all along).

 

Longhorn

Realistically, just because they're aware of the issue doesn't mean a fix is coming anytime soon. They were aware of the feral form hitbox issue for a long time too. Although optimistically it may actually get addressed since face to face questions to the devs tend to have a much more meaningful impact than rants and raves via the forums.