That's what you'd do now. Earlier, you'd save up to 100 energy and then pop berserk, shred, shred, shred, TF, shred, shred for (I guess) an insane PvP damage burst.

Dodge takes a hugeeeeeeee hit. I can't quite remember what it was at 70 upon transfer, but at 80 I'm at roughly 26% with 10% from talents (assuming they are working correctly).. down from over 60% unbuffed on live.

The agility to dodge nerf was intended to be a "fix" at druids only stacking agility and gaining both defensive and offensive stats, and gaining both at the fastest pace in relationship to other stats. I guess dodge rating should scale faster than agility just because it is a pure avoidance stat versus a stat that has multiple purposes.

However, they didn't get to the point of buffing other stats to be desirable for feral yet. While our agility scaled up our avoidance and threat at the same time, it also addressed the fact that we get extremely limited returns from defense, and no return from block and parry. Even with the way agility is scaling, we are still not beyond warrior avoidance on live in actual tanking gear focused on armor.

I think the suggestion offered before about scaling dodge gained from defense so that it matches the benefit other classes get is a very solid idea. Although even in it's current stage, I'll probably just gem dodge and hit in the yellow and red sockets in the tierd set., assuming we're not hit capped from other pieces of leather gear.

Another idea for homogenizing gear is allowing death knights and druids to convert block value into armor. There can be some modifier from infinity to 1/infinity for balance issues, but it'll help. Parry is something more iffy for druids i guess. Converting it to dodge pretty much "gives druid parry", but in terms of globalizing items, that really isn't necessarily a terrible idea.

I know this post is not going to be very helpful, but does anyone feel so disappointed by the latest changes, like I do? I mean, All other classes are getting some cool new spells, which really do alter their gameplay. I am mostly following the mage preview thread, but lastly I checked def warriors alone got charge in def stance, vigilance, silencing throw, showckwave together with shieldwall and last stance already being available as cooldown abilities.

What do ferals get? Berserk, on a 3 min CD, shared with cat. Wow. Oh and they a nerfing ooc. It really feels like there are alot of changes which alter gameplay and make LK a whole new game for everyone. And ferals are getting... some numbers changed. I know this may sound a lot like whining, but this is sort of the quintessence I feel after reading this thread. And I seriuosly doubt we will get remotely close to rogues' dps. Reading a lot of "yeah but ferals are so flexible" blue lines, this reminds me strongly of the situation pre BC...

If the timers stay as they currently are (3 minutes for both), Berserk and Challenging Roar will get a bit more use in general; there's no reason to not blow them on nearly every set of trash, when useful. They won't be part of the "standard rotation" as such, but at least this does mix it up a bit as far as what buttons we'll be mashing more often, while tanking.

Easy on the whine there bud, this isn't the mage thread =P. Berserk down to 3 minutes is very welcomed, as far as sharing it with cat honestly there aren't a ton of situations where you will be "Damn I had to blow zerk with frenzied regen to avoid dying/give healers breathing room, hmm I sure wish I could shift to cat and use berzerk for mad deeps." It's a pretty core cooldown and you won't exactly be blowing the bear version unless you are tanking, same works vice-versa.

Savage Roar I think is key for cat, hopefully its balanced properly to the equiv. of Slice and Dice in terms of overall dps gain, Attack power is getting an even larger boost from HotW so we shall see.

Blizzard has stated multiple times on the boards that if cat dps isn't where its at on live it will be adjusted to appropriate values (To me this means equal gear equal skill if a rogue does ~2300 we should do ~2100, perhaps even more). I hate the negativity and lack of confidence. Yes we got screwed hard in the DPS department in TBC but were exceptional tanks (something that was much sought after in Vanilla). Now we lust for good dps, and Im pretty confident that it will come. Skill wise we may not even be done yet, who knows still a few months to go.

I'm curious about this "ooc nerf" maybe I missed some notes but I was under the impression ppm was remaining fairly the same and scaling upwards with haste which is a "buff".

They are still tweaking beta hardcore and aren't really close to being done with balancing classes or threat or mitigation etc etc. Stay tuned, I doubt you will be disapointed in WotLK because it certainly looks amazing and has me more excited than TBC.

Don't forget we picked up CC (roots) both on-demand and random (everyone gets Nature's Grasp now) and revive. Those aren't exactly 25-man raid level tanking or DPS abilities, but they are great for 5-mans. And maybe 10-mans.

Frankly, I'm not sure how I'm going to remember to use all of the new stuff we now have.

Edit: As mentioned above the 3m CD on CR and Berserk gives us some nice new abilities every trash pull. I figure you could alternate between CR on one pull and Berserk (Mangle*3) on the next. And if you have to wait for mana, etc. You'd have both available.

That's an unfair comparison. Almost all ratios increase a little over 100% for each +1% avoidance, from 70 to 80. Comparing your dodge at 80 on beta to your dodge at 70 on live is kinda useless.

Source?

Seeing as OoC is the only thing that can possibly ever make haste a scaling stat for us, they should be buffing it, not lowering it.

It's a welcome PVE buff, but it's a terrible PVP nerf. It's near useless in PVP now.

Just as a random note, we're currently the only tanking class that can provide our own CC. We could kind of take advantage of this with Cyclone, but the 10 second duration was annoying (mobs suddenly running to the healer once it broke), but a 27 second Roots is more than enough time to dispatch an add or two.

I agree it is a unfair but it still shows you where you will be at (in the highest lv70 gear available) when you hit 80 and are ready to start raiding t7 content. Bleh I have to transfer another character for mats soon anyway so I'll check what it is at 70 (I'm thinking it was close to a 20% dodge hit).





What do you mean near useless in PvP now. Ignoring the tiger's fury conditional nothing was changed besides the lower CD which is a reasonable buff even for PvP.

Is a 2 in 1 talent ideal for PvP? No, but I still consider this amazing for pvp and have long wanted this just for the CC-immune portion. There have been so many times where you are just destroying face and your pvp trinket is on cooldown and I feel like smashing my keyboard in two pieces while I roll over and die while perma-CC'd. I always joke about investing in ~100 keyboards just for smashing purposes while doing BGs. This talent will definitely help calm the rage within even if you can only use it in bear OR cat once every 3 minutes. Exactly what I was looking for.

It's no longer CC immunity, just fear immunity. I think that's why it was said that it is now useless in PVP.