Gaijin42

That looks like it was spamming mangle. Why would you do that on a multimob pull? If you are just gonna mangle em down why not solo?

 

Murna

my understanding is, that rip is better than FB.
so, if i make 2 shreds to get to 5cp and have 44 energy, u suggest i FB?

in this example, rip on ~5sec, i could easily wait those 5 seconds, after that i will be on 94 energy and will refresh the rip the normal way. that leads to no rip uptime loss, no energy loss, no CP loss.


*edit* to the post above me: he used berserk, in which case mangle hits multiple mobs with no CD

 

• Caniki

He was using Berserk at the time.

 

• Falk

I'm saying I farm packs of those alternating Berserk/Mangle and straight out Swipe spam, since the cooldown is 3m. The Swipe ones I didn't make a video of (ran out of HD space, got lazy, don't ask ) but that's almost more or less how fast packs die with Swipe spam as opposed to Mangle/Berserk*. That's why I made the comparison after that.

*Well, maybe 2-3 GCD's slower. But Swipe group kill time doesn't scale up with mob count, whereas Mangle/Berserk does. So if you can pull a bigger pack...

Edit: Something to note however is I'm still packing 4t6 while Swipe farming, which scales a little too well at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if that particular bonus eventually gets nerfed because someone is going to find a use for 15% more Swipe damage in a raid encounter somewhere along the line.

 

summlan

The difference between Rip and FB is ~2k damage with 9552 ap and glyph+T7, thats less than 2 ticks of rip. So unless rip has less than 2 ticks left and Rip wont be off for more than 16 seconds, its better to use FB.

Btw feraldps have been updated with the latest strategy Nightcrowler posted. I also added a light-up function but its not perfect, since more than one button can light up at the same time.
But if you do your own rotation it can atleast tell you what you should do when you got 5cp and x sec left on SR.
Ive only included my own rather simple strategy to it. Il add Nightcrowlers aswell as soon as i can.

 

cana

Edited:

In former Patchnotes it was clearly stated that enchants with procc-mechanics (like Mongoose or Executioner) WILL work in feral forms as of 3.0. But I couldn't find this anymore in the official live-patch notes and I read that some class changes didn't make it into live.
Do weapon enchants like Mongoose or Executioner work in feral forms now or is this one of maybe many undocumented things that were not deployed with the patch?

 

kalbear

Yes, they do. Preliminary testing has mongoose as better than +35 agi thanks to procs off of mangle/swipe/lacerate, but not hugely so. Mongoose for cat is pretty bad however, as the high base attack speed means a much worse overall proc rate.

 

Snarley

beaten by kalbear, see post above.

 

kalbear

What's interesting to me is that his rage bar never goes below 60 until the end. Even mangle/maul spamming, you don't lose enough rage to matter. With swipe I would imagine it's only more ludicrous.

 

Nathariel

To get the rage he is being hit on by 7 or more mobs (dodging for more rage) while also using multiple target attacks to proc Primal Fury.

However you will notice that a lot of his early rage, before he uses berserk, is from the white hits.

 

kalbear

No, I understand where he's getting the rage. An earlier theory that was presented was that with 6 or more mobs you should be at about a static amount of rage using just swipe. (this didn't take into account natural reaction). It appears that even without swipe, natural reaction and primal fury combined with 3 targets is more than enough to keep rage values high, which means unlimited mauls.

And that very much implies that the most efficient way to kill mobs is by bear AoE, not by cat.

 

Janraea

Nah, the only way to imply that is by actually grinding things for a few hours and seeing which went fastest. I'd expect that you'll only do well in bear when grinding something that lives in packed groups, doesn't cast, and doesn't run.

 

Merendel

from my experience on beta bear grinding is only better if you can grab 6+ mobs fairly close together that are not going to run cast or do something nasty that ignores armor or reduces your damage. On average assuming I have a big enough pack for spamming swipe and maul(glyped) the pack will die in the time it takes to kill 3-4 single target in cat. Considering I could probably kill at least one more in the time it takes to gather that many up 6+ is about the point it becomes more efficient. Also note it works best if you have NR and FI if you want to bear grind as it lowers the amount of mobs you need to maintain full swipe+maul and boosts the damage on swipe. Neither of those will go in your average cat build.

on the other hand if berserk is up you will almost always kill 3-6 targets faster by going bear building about 40 rage poping zerk and going nuts with mangle over cating them all down with zerk up.

 

Maeltne

/moved to other thread

 

nightcrowler

@summlan

excellent work.

P.S.
rip and rake ticks scales with the ap you have when you cast them (if you have sr up, cast rip, sr expire, rip still tick for the same amount).

 

summlan

Oh il fix that, right now its calculated every energytick.
Now it feels like the flash-simulator and your c++ simulator are pretty close when it comes to dps.

I think il make a new one for lvl 70 with 80 talents and sunwellgear.

 

Khruschev

There was an earlier mention of this already, but I think it bears repeating.

I foresee an add-on similar to DisqoDice for Enhancement Shamans (recently renamed ShockAndAwe) being immensely helpful to us. It displays Shock, Shield, Stormstrike, and the 3s Windfury cooldowns as stacked shrinking bars of separate colors. Its most novel feature is that it overlays the Windfury cooldown bar (red) with the Stormstrike cooldown bar (yellow). As long as you see either yellow or orange, you're in the clear, but if you see red, it means that using Stormstrike will be "wasted" in that it won't be able to proc Windfury.

A Druid-version would undoubtedly be more complicated, but it seems that they strive to do the same thing by letting you know when (and when not) to use a certain ability. At the very least, a similar addon which tracked Mangle, Rake, SR, and Rip cooldowns for ease of reference would be great-- if it could also tell you when to use FB instead of Rip, or when to hold off on finishing at all... even better.

I have no skill with creating add-ons, so I leave it to those most capable.

 

iammrfluffy

Hey guys i was hoping someone could run the numbers for me. For PVP, i wear 4p t6 and 4p arena gear, should i get improved mangle and just stick to mangling my target? Or should i stick the normal shredding the target. My gear would be set correctly in terms of idols and such. thanks alot guys.

-fluffy

 

Oakenshield_Drenden

So, what builds are you all using for the patch today?

I play a hybrid role (like many of us). Up until this patch I'd probably say I was tanking 75% of the time and dps'ng 25% of time, but for the next month and post release I'll probably be dps'ng 60-70% of the time and tanking the rest. What tanking I will be doing will probably be heroics, kara, maybe some ZA and SSC (ie not high end stuff).

3.0 Build

Do you guys have some suggestions on this build? One of the key questions I come back to is whether to keep beserk or get back omen of clarity. Thoughts on this?

 

ranma

I think it is up to you.

DPE wise, 2T6+full talented mangle is very close to full talented shred, that's been through math before.

Pros on mangle: save you 2 talent points on shredding attack, no need to worry about position.
Pros on shred: better burst damage and better use of OOC proc. No dodge penalty if you are master of positioning in pvp. 20% more damage with glyph if you come with a stun lock partner.

 

david0925

61 Feral is going to be the superior tanking build, 0/50/11 is going to be the superior cat build.

For cat, I'd use something like this
Cat Spec

The 3 point in natural reaction is something I just used as filler, you can add it in whatever talent you prefer more. Just keep in mind that feral dps is still relatively poor to level 80 due to missing Savage Roar.

Maniq is my hero

 

seminarca

Speaking of which, here's a quick and dirty video I made for guildies earlier:
swipefun.avi - FileFront.com

This was right after they increased the range on Growl, so I had a quick play around with the Supplicants near BT. My character was level 72 at the time (never managed to get much levelling done on beta unfortunately). I had PotP, but nobody in my party. Dipped fairly low on hp but the new Frenzied Regen was good enough to save me. The incoming damage was more than I was used to on live pulling a crowd of similar numbers (agi to dodge nerf, level 72 so worse ratios for agi/dodge rating and no gear upgrades, etc). But yea, with any decently sized group of mobs, you will be swimming in Rage even with spamming Maul on every swing. I didn't use Berserk as I wanted to just show Swipe, but I did have Glyph of Maul.

 

Oakenshield_Drenden

Ok, so omen of clarity >> beserk in your mind?

Also, interested in your reaction to the specific build I added to my original post..

 

tbsp

I've been considering this for a while, and after someone mentioned using Elk's Buff Bars I gave it a try last night. Unlike dotimers (at least the version I use), EBB allows you to create an arbitrary number of "groups" of dots/etc. Setting up one group whitelisted for mangle, rake, rip and FFF on your target, and another for clearcasting and SR on yourself gives a pretty good summary of what's going on.

In addition, adding some indicators using Power Auras Classic should provide all the required information for TF and berserk in a fairly compact form.

I still think a single addon custom-made for feral dps would be great, but existing addons can do it pretty well.

 

Beace

I expect to be starting off with a http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000 build, quite possibly changing to 50/11 in a few days or so. It might just be that with the raid nerfs coming, you really don't need the tanking talents to do well (PotP, NR, etc)

This build also have all the new abilities to get used to (except the new behavior of furor).