Omen of Clarity, according to Toskk, is worth about 10% more DPS. This makes sense conceptually as well, as it averages on 2 procs every 30 seconds, or 2 free attacks in 20 total GCDs. Berserk is a lot more fun, but it is not anywhere close to 80-ish energy every 30 seconds.

More about bear and cat.

Yesterday I was thinking about the best rotation till level 75 (SR)

What we should do is basically the same.

Keep mangle up
Keep rake up
Shred to 5 cp
Use RIP if RIP is not up and you have the glyph (otherwise FB if you have less than 35 energy)
Use FB if you have more than 2 seconds left on RIP and less than 40 energy.


As for Bear:

From my simulation FFF is one of our best threat move, this means that the cycle will be:

Mangle when not in CD
Keep 5xlacerate up
Maul
FFF when not in CD
swipe if you have extra energy and GCD to spend.

Basically with a minimal threat/dps lost (<1%) you can macro all in a castsequence macro with mangle/lacerate/swipe/FFF on a 6 second timer and using maul everytime.

Going 50/11 or 51/10 would make the most sense at lvl 70 right now.
Checked couple of specs linked here and i presume those are for raiding cats? Or leveling?
As they seem to have lots of fillers or kind of useless talents for raiding.

I myself would look into something like this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
One thing that has to be tested is OOC vs Berserker.

And Survival Instincs + Imp mangle points could be for 2/3 Infected wounds, but that would be weaker than TC so it probably has no real use.
But when making a hybrid bear/cat build, i would definetly include PotP and IW as the AC has heeb nerfed and more mitigation is never bad

I understand that FFF costs zero rage, but in boss fight where you have limitless rage with the new talents for swipe, I really want to see number to believe that its worth putting FFF in our tanking circle.

After the Armory update, you will need to run an update of the item cache to syncronize it with the item stats on live. We had a armory down time in eu.armory yesterday. So I hope items will be updated in armory when I get home.

Maybe for highest possible threat it is, but is that what we should be aiming for? With the changes is anyone actually ever close to pulling aggro?

I haven't had anyone take aggro off me in a boss fight on beta, even when I have been testing rotations out or just messing up my cycle.

Still, using a swipe on that GCD instead of FFF would probably only be a small dps increase at that.

Just wondering if anyone had any data on Swipe vrs Lac in 3.0? I'm guessing with the new talents and stuff Mangle, Swipe Swipe wail be our new rotation, with maul ofc.

At level 70 FFF does 1+0.05*ap damage, and the threat is (557+damage)*Bear_multiplier

DPS:
keep 5xlacerate stack
swipe
lacerate
FFF

Aggro:
keep 5xlacerate stack
FFF
lacerate
swipe


Report: Naxx 10 gear + badge gear, level 80 full raid buffed and enchanted.

Spec: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000

Infinite Rage using FFF

TPS: 7524

White bear: 0, Yellow bear: 3098.31
White bear: 0%
Mangle bear: 16.8165%, Average Damage: 2597.06, Maul: 65.6059%, Average Damage: 4464.54, Lacerate: 12.5614%, Average Damage: 5103.59, Swipe: 3.34486% Average Damage: 666.837, FeralFairieFire: 1.67134% Average Damage: 524.325

**************************************
OTHER INFOS

Bleed debuff uptime: 98.8973%, Mangle debuff uptime: 98.4973%


Infinite Rage not using FFF

TPS: 7320

White bear: 0, Yellow bear: 3113.28
White bear: 0%
Mangle bear: 16.7121%, Average Damage: 2595.95, Maul: 65.3355%, Average Damage: 4466.42, Lacerate: 12.503%, Average Damage: 5105.41, Swipe: 5.44934% Average Damage: 667.684, FeralFairieFire: 0% Average Damage: nan

**************************************
OTHER INFOS

Bleed debuff uptime: 98.9122%, Mangle debuff uptime: 98.4999%


Rage starved (not getting hitted) using FFF

TPS: 4954
DPS: 2255

White bear: 312.349, Yellow bear: 1944.74
White bear: 13.8385%
Mangle bear: 22.3876%, Average Damage: 2592.84, Maul: 41.7866%, Average Damage: 4472.09, Lacerate: 18.2391%, Average Damage: 2303.14, Swipe: 1.31933% Average Damage: 665.816, FeralFairieFire: 2.42875% Average Damage: 525.356

**************************************
OTHER INFOS

Bleed debuff uptime: 99.3578%, Mangle debuff uptime: 98.0269%


Rage starved (not getting hitted) not using FFF

TPS: 4374
DPS: 2112

White bear: 359.646, Yellow bear: 1752.72
White bear: 17.0258%
Mangle bear: 24.0107%, Average Damage: 2595.55, Maul: 36.7678%, Average Damage: 4468.06, Lacerate: 20.2296%, Average Damage: 1672.92, Swipe: 1.96622% Average Damage: 666.53, FeralFairieFire: 0% Average Damage: nan

**************************************
OTHER INFOS

Bleed debuff uptime: 99.4402%, Mangle debuff uptime: 97.98%





Other infos:
In a rage starved scenario the best rotation is:

- keep 5xlacerate stack up
- Mangle when not in cd
- Maul if you have more than maul+mangle rage
- FFF when not in cd
- swipe if you have more than maul+mangle+swipe rage
- lacerate to keep the stack up.

In an infinite rage fight you're right, FFF is virtually useless there because threat is not a major concern, and a slight damage boost is better thenn othing. When talking about using FFF in a threat rotation, the assumption is that it's a fight where we lack the excess rage after Mangle/Maul to use every GCD with Swipe or Lacerate.

Was FFF proven to apply threat and/or damage even if the buff is already up (as in you get the "A more powerful spell is already active")?

I will probably spec into something like http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000 for the time being.

My only concern is possible threat lost by only putting 1 pt in Feral Instinct. Its either that or loose Berserk and 1 pt in Rend and Tear and put it there. Guess i'll have to test it out later on to find out.

Infected Wounds seems to be the best slowing debuff and as a raid oriented tank i cant skip it.

Edit : Other changes/intentions i forgot to mention :

• Considering using Greater Inscription of the Blade on shoulders
• Mongoose for bear seems to have been determined to be the best so i'll change that for sure
• Brooch of deftness is also coming in and Pendant of Titans is going out
• PvP bracers are out, Band of the Swift Paw is in. Perhaps with a 5agil 7stam.

We're thinking of doing some laid back raiding tonight to get a feel for the changes. If that happens i'll post my impressions here tomorrow.

That's not working in bear, either

No it doesn't, but I believe there is no confirmation either that the inability to override your previous FFF isn't a bug.

If not even the damage-part of FFF works while another FF is already up, this is clearly a bug and needs to be fixed.

Has there been any discussion on the Beta forums about Feral Charge Cat in PvP - doing some dueling last night it certainly makes priests difficult that when you charge from stealth the daze icon shows up before you do to pounce. It also seems rather unnecessary for Cat charge to be 30s and Bear to be 15s since they took the spell interrupt out of Cat.

@nightcrowler Did blizzard change the threat mechanics of lacerate? I remember I read a post here before, indicated the frontload threat of lacerate is still 285, same as what we had at level 70. Is that overlooked by blizzard, or threat@ level 80 is not tested yet?

So, In this case, Swipe does better than lacerate on single target. Lacerate does 1100 / 207 = 531 frontload threat, swipe has average damage 661 = 661 threat.

I remember the ticks and direct damage did threat as 20% of the damage done. it is now 100% or 100% / 2.07 = 48%?

I've played around a bit with the new Rawr. Assuming all calcs are correct, I've observed the following (assumed T6 gear level, and all tanking talents taken):

1) S4 (and occasionally s3) are generally better than any sunwell loot available, due to the high armor.

2) When it comes to total tanking points, 1 sta > 1 agi. Obviously stamina doesn't make you take less dmg though, so a balance is needed. But... 10 agi vs. 15 sta gems? I got a feeling you're better off using 15 stamina ones.

3) Obviously, Badge of Tenacity is king once again. BoT and Commendation feels like the best combination now. I've banked my Shadowmoon Insignia. It's "interesting" that the two best trinkets are either lvl 70 BoE blue or a drop from a 5-man heroic. On top of that, next in line is a lvl 60 blue quest reward.

4) Defense is not at all as weak a stat as I expected it to be. Of course you're not gonna enchant or gem for it, but there's little reason to complain about having it on some of our jewelry pieces.

5) Rawr suggests, that +240 armor on gloves will be a stronger tanking enchant than 15 agi, even when you're in avoidance gear.

Another interesting tidbit is that Mark of Tyranny also scores quite high (#2).

It's pretty hard to know exactly which of the two it is, my personal guess is that the modifier has been raised from 0.2 to 0.45 or 0.5. The 100% damage as threat might not be entirely accurate, the margin of error in my testing is around 5%.

This frontloaded lacerate threat is before or after the bear and 'baked in salv' modifiers?

That reply I wrote was actually wrong, so feel free to ignore it. That threat number is after all the bear modifiers, so Ranma is correct, if your swipe hits over 531 on average, swipe is better TPS then Lacerate.