Acearan

how do i test the average hit on swipe? cause that sounds freaking high.

"Druids, they are so stupid they can tank better than warriors, out damage rogues, and nuke as well as mages. On top of that they can turn into a mutated seal."

 

ranma

Isn't it one of the easiest skill to test? swipe damage is constant when your AP/buff/debuff is fixed.

I don't have accounts right now, any one has the AP scale formula for swipe? I couldn't find it on wowhead nor wowwiki.

 

Acearan

Well Yes its easy, but there is a formula, which i am unfamiliar with, that calculates normal hits and Crits into teh equation

"Druids, they are so stupid they can tank better than warriors, out damage rogues, and nuke as well as mages. On top of that they can turn into a mutated seal."

 

ranma

base damage * (1 + crits%) = average dmg. Assume you have max hit rating and expertise rating. And +10% crits dmg doesn't works on bear yet.

Did you look for this one or some other formula?

 

Nospamas

Found a gem of an actionbar mod having had my UI thrown out of the window today with the new patch which I thought bore a mention here. I've been a long time user of trinity bars which has recently been superceeded by Macaroon.

The nifty thing I found today with this new version has not only cooldown timers but built in dot timers on abilities that apply buffs or debuffs, this is of particular interest for the use of mangle, rip and rake. While this doesn't encompass SR or OOC it is particularly handy for judging the dots in the cat dps cycles. Until a more customized mod comes along what playing around I've been able to do since the patch today has been greatly aided by these timers. The only limitation on this functionality is that it displays timers only for the currently selected target; which generally for cat dps is enough.

One final note however is that macaroon essentially leaves you with a blank UI which you have to build yourself, not for the faint of heart but the interface for creating such a UI is clean, simple and easy to use. My UI which includes a stance/stealth bar, several clickable buttons and a couple of hidden bars for buffs was completed within 30 mins this afternoon.

P.S. Cat charge? BOING!

 

zeusal

Posting for comment, based on what I've read from various sources, Omen of Clarity is better than beserk. With the reduction of Shred in the DPS cycle is Rend and Tear worth 5 points at level 70, or should I just go ahead and get Feral Aggression, or maybe even move one point to Survival Instincts for those OS moments. . .

So, go ahead and tear into it if I've blatently overlooked something.

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Druid -> Talent Calculator

 

nightcrowler

Lacerate should be used only for the stack. A full lacerate stack is higher dps and tps than a swipe.

TPS wise is (551+(0.5*(320+0.05*ap)*5+88+0.5*0.01*ap)*1.3)*2.07 (refreshing lac + stack)

Swipe TPS (108+24+0.07*ap)*1.3*2.07 (swipe with idol)


if we consider pnly the scaling component lcerate does 85% more threat.


In a cat spec you'll take FA to improve FB but if you don't take R&T you will not use FB in your rotation, so why?

 

nightcrowler

delete me please, double posted for error.

 

◊ Abradix

The formula for your average swipe damage is (118+0,07* Your_Attack_Power)*1.3*1.1*Your_Crit_Rating. This is pre armor, so multiply the outcome of that by 0.75 if you're modeling it for tanking a boss with 25% armor. Add another 4% if you have Master Shapeshifter, etcetera.

 

Vidandric

So can anyone confirm that Mongoose and other weapon procs work in form now? And if so, do you feel it's worth it to switch to it?

 

Merendel

yes it works. not worth to switch for cat. only worth it for bear if you just got a new tanking staff or are swimming in the appropriate mats. only reason its even remotely better for bear is because you'll often be tanking 2 or more mobs so you'll have multiple swipe hits with a chance to proc it increasing up time. for cat the avrage agility for the expected uptime is only 30 agi. there is the haste component but it is one of our weakest DPS stats, particularly before SR.

 

◊ Abradix

Yes it procs in forms, and wether or not it's worth it depends what your role is really. The proc rate is really quite low in cat form due to our 1 second attack speed and the way PPM enchants work. For tanking - Especially dungeon/trash tanking where you tank multiple mobs all the time with swipe, Mongoose uptime is very high.

 

halmmar

Then again, PPM enchants scale with windfury totem and haste. I'll grab a mongoose since it's as good as 35 agi even without haste.

 

Acearan

2664 * 1.3*1.1 * 34.74% * .75= 992.57 rounded

So am I doing my math wrong? These values are my stats unbuffed with no boss debuffs…..

my swipe dosent even come close to that number..even critting...

"Druids, they are so stupid they can tank better than warriors, out damage rogues, and nuke as well as mages. On top of that they can turn into a mutated seal."

 

nightcrowler

If you want to consider critting you have (1-crit)+2*(crit) = 1+crit

so it's:

remember that vs a raid boss you have -4.4% to crit.

2664 seems too high

108+0.07*ap = 2664? Do you have 36514 ap? It seams to high, probably you have missed a factor 10.

If you have 3600 ap, then 108+0.07*3600 = 360

So the average swipe hits for: 360*1.3*1.1*0.75*(1+0.334) = 515



I've tried it yesterday evening. FFF always apply and refresh, you don't get any strange message and it apply all the threat.


Lacerate at 80 has a frontload threat of 551 before multipliers, also they changed dot component to a threat multiplier of 0.5 instead of 0.2

So actually a single lacerate (front load) generate (551+0.5*1.3*(1+crit%)*(0.01*ap+88))*2.07 threat
a 5 stacked lacerate generate for the full duration: mangle_buff*( (damageXtick*stack)*numberOFtick)*threat_multipl*bear_multipl =1.3*((0.01*ap+64)*5 ) * 5 *0.5 * 2.07


With full naxx10 gear + heroic, full buffed, enchanted and so on, A bear should have about 6500 ap and a crit% of 35% (after boss reduction).

this mean:

threat:
Lacerate front load = 1418
Lacerate full stack = 4339
swipe = 1687

 

Mijae

Interesting to see DoTs might be changing to be able to crit. (source)

Has this been confirmed in 3.0/LK? It might be possible to test with FB and RnT at 50%+ crit.

Feral DruidStats spreadsheet
v3.2.0.0.xls - updated 8/4/2009

 

nightcrowler

I think they only want spells dot to crit (no lacerate, rip, rake and so on).

Not confirmed in 3.0/LK but neither neglected so I've assumed it continue to work like that. It will be interesting if someone can test it.

 

tlbj6142

So, when does this thread die and we make a non-preview version? Once LK is released?

 

Maeltne

I'm away from my client right now, but I'm drawing up some macros (bored @ work) and just needed a confirmation regarding Lacerate stacks in /castsequences.

Assuming 0% miss, do I need to lacerate every 9 GCDs (13.5s), or 10 GCDs (15s)? I assume it's 9 just because of lag both human and internet.

Also:

Is this really necessary? What is wrong with continuing this one?

 

Neddie

I'm glad I didn't get rid of my mark of tyranny or smoking heart of the mountain, on the other hand, I'm depressed that they're still so good.

 

Merendel

definatly 9gcd's as any time you go even slighly long on a GCD you'll end up at 15.1+s by the time you get to 10 and loose the stack. even perfect timeing might loose the stack in any case. You also have to consider that you probably wont have 100% chance to land the blow. You'll need enough +hit to not miss outright and enough expertiese to not be dodged/parried, and there's always the chance that the target could block. laccerate has such low initial damage that its often compleatly blocked preventing the bleed from applying.

 

zeusal

Ok, anyone else do some raiding with a build similar to this yet. I think this may be slightly higher DPS if the freaking mobs lived long enough for the Rips to tick. Everything was dieing so fast that it was almost a joke. That said, overall Feral Aggression with Rend and Tear, and improved mangle may work out to be more DPS in practical application till we hit 80 and have it all. I'll miss Feral instincts but something like this:
WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Druid -> Talent Calculator

I'd envision not taking shredding attacks and such talents, with a cycle like Mangle, Rake, Mangle to 5, Energy >80 FB, Tiger's Fury when up restart. How do we model something like that.

 

Neddie

Yeah, my guild went from struggling on the last few BT bosses to doing a 3-hour full BT clear. For DPS I'd carefully rake, mangle, shred, rip... oh, the mob's dead. Even on bosses there was no time to get a feel for a DPS cycle because they just melted. Making it even sillier was that trash we used to carefully CC was just being AoE'd down. Moonkins had no CD on hurricane, hunters had no CD on volley and it was doing a lot more damage. The lack of any kind of multi-target attack in cat (are we the only ones left in the game without a multi-target attack on our DPS form/stance?) was painfully obvious. Another painfully obvious thing was that we're also the only class that has a positional requirement for DPS. Having to be behind your target to shred is really difficult when crazy visual effects mean you can barely even see your target, let alone know if you're behind it.

We're going to hit sunwell for the first time on Sunday, I *hope* things there live long enough so that there's a way to actually get a feel for a DPS cycle. If things die just as quickly there I'm going to go for a pure mangle-spam-ferocious-bite build and re-evaluate a proper DPS build at 80.

 

Baggles

This is probably pretty accurate. We are a class that used to slowly build up and maintain a rigid cycle, and there plain isn't time to do that at this point. You might just be better doing mangle -> rake, mangle mangle bite, and then just maintaining rake, mangle, and biting. Even trying to shred feels futile.

 

Sierin

I fail at macro creation, could you please post yours when you get them done. Once I have something to start with I can build upon it, but I'm not sure where to start with recreating bear and kitty macros. Thanks