The DPS staff from Naxx-10 is off of KT. All the KT items have a higher itemlevel. First 16 Naxx-10 bosses drop ilvl 200 stuff. KT drops ilvl 213. First 16 Naxx-25 bosses drop ilvl213 stuff, and I assume KT drops 226 or something, haven't seen any KT-25 loot yet.

So yes, of the 4 staves, the two DPS staves are both ilvl213. The low end bear staff is the only ilvl 200 one.

Makes sense. The 36 AP I thought it was missing just ended up being a typo as well. Its somewhat unfortunate the KT staff is likely overkill in the expertise department though.

Regen here is replying to a pessimistic TimWischmeier and he tries to shine the good sides.

This fact angers me even more.

Blues stated that we will be forced to change spec to change role (as every other class). Anyway having to respec when performing a different role is not only fair, but is the reason that will put us together with rogues and mages (if not above em) as top single target dps.
In fact, there aren't more excuses that prevent us to reach them. The "supreme raid utility" (brez and innervate) that we bring is underpar (or maybe just "different grade of usefullness") to the utility that those 2 classes bring.
For those that still don't know, mages bring

Focus Magic - talent - tier 3, arcane (it requires 10 pts, but pretty much all the mages were goin for AT LEAST 18 pts in arcane)
Increases spell power of all raid members by 150. Last 1 min or until 50 charges are expended.


while rogues got

Tricks of the Trade - spell - trainable
The current party or raid member becomes the target of your Tricks of the Trade. The threat caused by your next attack and all actions taken for 6 sec afterwards will be transferred to the target. In addition, all damage caused by the target is increased by 15% during this time.

We're still not sure about the final version of these spells, but surely the utility is looking HUGE. Prolly better than innervate and brez.


Adding to this that they both have some aoe dmg ability, while we have noone, we should have also the right to be ABOVE em as single target dps.



Now, i really don't understand why other classes and even druids still state (in this forum and also in others) that kitty dps should be raised, but only to 95% of rogues'. Someone to 90% (?). Someone else to 80% (!?!). I can understand the random ebayer mage. But other druids... even other ferals!


Did 4 years of "master-of-noone" made us so masochistic?

Just a point of clarification, the only Mages that will go that deep into the Arcane tree are the Arcane Spec'd Mages, it's currently viewed as a gimmick talent that was added to give a raid buff to the Arcane tree.

That buff does not stack with similar buffs provided by the following classes:

Disc Priest, Improved Divine Spirit, 23 talent points
Shaman, All spec's Flametongue Totem, level 28 spell
Elemental Shaman, Totem of Wrath 41 talent points
Demonology Warlocks, Demonic Pact 50 talent points

On subject, from what I've seen, other then the odd loss of +hit/expertise(feral staff exception), the sets aren't looking too bad, and I'm looking forward to playing my Druid in the expansion. My druid is on a second account, so I'm not able to test him in Beta.

Titanium Earthguard Ring is unique-equipped so you might want to look at Ring of Earthen Might instead.

While looking at rings today it's quite disturbing to note that not only will the patterns require 5 days of completing the daily quest to acquire, you'll also need 4 more daily tokens to get the Dragon's Eyes required (though they're BoE). Nice enough if you're not racing to get all the jewelcrafting gem cuts to serve your guild's needs, but it won't be available immediately, at least.

Anyway, in an effort to look at cat DPS's current position at 80, I spent our last raid purely DPSing on bosses. The logs are here -- sorry about the messy format. Hope it's useful to someone.

Obviously some fights favour different roles, but let's just say the warlock wasn't pleased.

Spec was probably something like this (specced to tank instances/trash too) and gear was mostly T6/sunwell with two dungeon blues.

A few updates from that list I'd make now:

Witch Doctor's Wildstaff
Hood of the Furtive Assassin
Ring of Earthen Might

However, note that there are many level 70 items that are better than the highest blues right now. This include some slots as low as badge gear items like [Footwraps of Wild Encroachment], [Tameless Breeches], and [Handwraps of the Aggressor]. Some of these will change when bonus armor is removed, but there are others that don't have bonus armor (like updated T6 boots). In addition, many helms will be better due to Austere Earthsiege Diamond and the lack of meta sockets in new blues.

All of the level 80 blue arena gear pieces (except shoulders) are technically better than these as well.

A fifth feral staff from Naxx: http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...mas_25_152.jpg

at least no exp. rating on this 1
but now we know 5 weapons, and all they have 0 hitrating,
0 of 10 set items have hit rating aswell

Still no blue post explanation about such itemization move for a feral.
As we see now, expertise rating is somehow overcaped for us, i expect it will be swaped to hit rating on 1-2 set pieces.

0 of 10... You mean the two 5pieces-sets, right? There are still plenty of items ferals will share with rogues, which will have hitrating on them. I think someone mentioned that already here, it is a very smooth way Blizzard goes there: giving us only expertise on set/weapon slots, so we won't get useless hitrating-values with rogue-gear.

I'm really hoping I can find something wrong with my current dps model. Right now it's showing an estimated nearly 5000 dps with full Naxx gear and full raid buffs (does not count energy regen from buffs like Replenish). That seems pretty high to me. It also shows Journey's End as a 250 dps upgrade over The Undeath Carrier.

This is using a 5 Rip / 5 FB / 5 SR rotation. It shows ArP as our best stat, with strength in second (by a decent amount), followed by agi, hit, and exp near equal and just slightly behind strength.

The hit cap for a rogue seems prohibitve, and prolly a rogue will be near that only at the very end of the wotlk content.
Still rogues doesn't seem much worried about that (according to the post i read).

It's obvious that we need less hit to get the cap. But 70% of our dmg comes from specials, while rogues rely much more on white hits (and missing a special is worse than missing a white hit). Does this imply that hit rating is MORE important (before the cap) for us than for rogues? I'm not sure about this. Anyone got the numbers?

Prolly at the start we will share jewelry with warriors (wich need HUGE +hit to touch something with 2x2handers), then we'll move to rogues jewerly when also the tiers items got some +hit. At the end we'll share trinkets and necks with DKs.
Doesn't seem bad.

Another question: how much is the hit cap for us at 80?

Didn't know the new energy system made FB better than shred. Is it near rip?

Also, are you sure we can get 15 cp (or even 12 with 4/4/4 rotation) before rip expires? (maybe thanks to glyphs, i dunno)


Edit: you also replyed to my previous post: according to your model, hit is not THAT important for us.

I'm not sure, but for what i see all the buffs you quoted increase crit or haste or increase spellpower for less than mages. Thus the utility of Focus Magic remains.
Ofc you can raid without that particular buff, provided you have some of the other classes/specs, but you can also live without many brez and innervate.


A clarification: my starting post wasn't a whine at all. I like the way Blizzard is moving to.
I just want to make sure that (at least) all the ferals start thinking that there are no "utility" excuses to gimp our dps. Neither by a little bit.