My mistake.

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=9 Berserk, Mangle - Bear, Mangle - Bear, Mangle - Bear, Mangle - Bear, Mangle - Bear, Mangle - Bear, Mangle - Bear, Mangle - Bear, Mangle - Bear

The reset number is a little arbitrary, I admit, but you can't go wrong with a high single-digit number for obvious reasons.

I disagree, for single-target work the below suits just fine. Admittedly these two macros only save one slot on your Bear action bar, but please elaborate on why not.

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=4 Mangle - Bear, Lacerate, Lacerate, Lacerate
/startattack

You're not using FFF, and you're not accounting for Imp Mangle if you have it. Additionally, the priority for abilities in a raged limited situation is FFF > Mangle > Maul > Lacerate, which doesn't mesh well with a cast sequence. Plus that doesn't account for Swipe, which you want to use in place of ~2/3 of the lacerates when you have 4T6 (roughly), or in place of all lacerates on 2+ mobs, and in place of all mangles and FFFs on 4+mobs.

Which ability to use at any time is quite dynamic now, and I strongly suggest you get out of the habit of using castsequence macros. (This coming from a guy who pre-3.0 used castsequence macros extensively, to tank while browsing forums, working on Rawr, and even sleeping once.)

Going to second this notion and basically say if your tanking reducing your gameplay down to (a) castsequence macro(s) chances are you are pretty terrible, average at best. Kind of a shame threat basically got removed from the game but even still I think you will find not using castsequence macros keeps you more involved in the game/current situation hopefully leading to better situational awareness/situational reaction time (basically all thats left to tank skill). The very notion of trying to macro tanking makes my head explode if you are the least bit serious about tanking.

No amount of skill can help you overcome the DPS gap on fights where you have to move around enough that SR falls off. Feral already has to manage OoC and TF in addition to keeping SR up all the while staying in melee range (possibly the mangle debuff as well depending on group make-up). Nobody else but DKs has to micro manage so much and at least they can manage one of their attacks at range. No one ability should contribute so much to your DPS as SR does.

This then bleeds over into PVP where your burst damage has huge swings depending on if you got lucky and they stayed near you when you popped SR or not.

This is borderline whining. Yes, feral druids have a complex dps cycle. Any fight that involves movement decreases everyone's dps. Every class in the game has to manage cooldowns and have abilities they need to refresh. This is what makes the difference between someone who is consistently high on dps and someone who is consistently low on dps. Just please, please don't tell me the reason I'm bad is because I'm a feral druid.

Right now, feral druids are far and away the most mobile melee class in the game. Here are the reasons why:
1. We get +30% run speed from a talent (and it stacks with other movement speed effects)
2. Feral Charge now works in cat form
3. Dash (with a minor glyph to reduce the cooldown)
4. Immune to polymorph and can break all roots and movement impairment effects.
5. Can remove fear with berserk.

TLDR version:
Feral druids have so many tools for movement, survivability, as well as the most powerful cooldown in the game (Rebirth) and another powerful cooldown (Innervate). Having to use these abilities may decrease our dps, but gives us the pleasure of changing a wipe into a kill.

Yes, it does, unless you get the damn "More powerful effect" thing, in which case it fails to cast.

Diameter - the point is cool down mismanagement should decrease your DPS but screwing up a single one while getting everything else perfect (either due to the fight or skill) should not cost you a huge chunk of DPS while screwing up the others causes minimum impact. Savage Roar is just too good for its own good.

If you mismanage SR somehow you will do one special attack and maybe 4-5 autoattacks without the AP bonus. Assuming you screw up once every two minutes (that's about every fourth or fifth SR) this results in about 4 % of your attacks not receiving the bonus - that is hardly a 'huge chunk of DPS'.

It's true that movement screws up your cycle, but if you are not in range, you cannot attack anyways (so not having SR up should not be a problem). You will have to start your cycle from scratch after getting back in range, but you will have a full energy bar to start from.

As well, you won't lose cp on the boss (unless you start using specials on adds while moving), so once you run back in you can begin the next cycle with SR using unused cp from previous cycle before you had to move.

Omen PPM were reduce cause of "free hurricane strategy". Can anyone test if the reduction is also for melee?

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - OOC Procing

I interpret the first half of GC's post as haste not scaling OOC for ferals. I thought this was the original reason to amend it's mechanism?

I think so far everyone has been assuming (we have no reason to think otherwise, really) that OoC proc chances are calculated off the base prehasted weapon speed (unlike TBC enchant PPM procs such as Mongoose and Executioner), since it's a talent proc that's we have been told is meant to increase the value of haste/hit/expertise for Druids.

That quote is from a Balance thread, so please keep the context in mind. In the first paragraph, he's probably just referring to PPM enchants like the aforementioned Mongoose and Executioner.

If you want to postulate that OoC follows TBC enchant PPM mechanics such that haste decreases the chance to proc per hit, then you'd need to gather a massive volume of autoattack combatlog vs target dummies and run the numbers.

But as far as I understand, OoC goes something like (correct me if I'm wrong here):

3.5 PPM means on average, it's aiming to proc 3.5 times per minute. Reference: Proc Mechanics

At Cat Form's 1.00 attack speed, this is a percentage chance of:
3.5 / (60/1.00) = 5.833% per hit

A Cat with 0.80 attack speed due to haste still has 5.833% chance per hit to proc it, this Cat's actual PPM in practice would instead be:
PPM / (60/0.8) = 5.833%
Solving for PPM = 4.375 PPM

What I don't really get is, what is our role now in WotLK?

With the most points available in 1 talent tree(feral, 77points) and only 71points available, we are forced to pick either kitty or bear.

Bear:
The reason why Druids are used to tank in raids is because they can Offtank and dps just about as good as other classes.

Now that we have this hidden nerf of 'pick bear or kitty' spec, I don't think we will be able to tank or dps.

We don't have the advantage of AOE tanking, warriors are getting shockwave, Paladins will be doing consecrate, with the stam = spellpower buff. All we have is a frontal swipe which made things difficult for us even though it is buffed to unlimited targets.

We basically can't tank at all if we picked all kitty talents, even using tanking gears. We only have dodge, and our agil>dodge ratios are nerfed about 100% in WotLK, diminishing returns will kill us and therefore we will be looking to stack defense again for chance for boss to miss.


Kitty:
If we picked bear talents, our dps will be horrible, a prot tank would most probably out dps us. The nerf to shred dmg and buff to mangle dmg is just an obvious case. How often do you mangle? Rake buff? So we have to spend more energy to make use of a buffed spells we never used in BC and force it into our rotation? We need to spend 5points deep into 9th tier to make shred even worth it?

Our Slice and Dice would be the only thing that is considered a buff. Our 'adrenaline rush' is decent, but definitely not as good as rogues. We would be owning rogues in dps meter on a dummy at early 75-80, but late 80s when rogues are getting all the uber weapons, we will be like nothing compared to them.



So all in all, if we spec kitty, we can't tank, if we spec bear, we can't dps. We are a class that is going back to the 'master of nothing' title.

Resto you say? Wild Gay must be cool am i right? grats on spending 51pts for a useless spell. Have fun renewing the HoT of a target you don't want and waste more mana. Have fun getting beaten on healing meters. (OMG spamming CoH/chain heal/beacon is so hard!)

Balance? Just how many raid spots will be made avaliable for oomkins now with raid wide buff? You sure you want to be hated reputation with your guild's mage/priest/warlock/cloth+leather healers?

Seriously, did you just register to come in here without reading anything in this thread, just to whine about some random ideas you have without any factual basis?

I do not know where you got the idea that bears cannot tank and are only "Off tanks", but I can assure you that bear specced feral druids are more then capable of tanking entire Naxxramas, Eye of Eternity and Chamber of Aspects, which are all the raid instances currently in Wrath of the Lich King. DPS as bear spec is not going to keep up with rogues or hunters, but guess what, you've specced to be a tank. And you do more DPS in cat then a prot warrior or a prot paladin will do in DPS gear, and you'll be 20% behind the "real" dps. This is a better number then pre-3.0 in Sunwell, I might add.

As cat spec you're going to be very competative with all the "pure" DPS classes, so why are you complaining you can't tank? Your argument of "Master of nothing" title basically consists of "I want to be top DPS when I'm tank spec and I want to be the best main tank when I'm DPS spec". If you spec bear, you're going to be a very capable and equal MT to Warriors and Paladins, if you spec cat then you're going to be very capable DPS, fighting alongside rogues on the meters. While you're still able to tank heroics by the way, ask rogues if they can do that.

Do you really want a feral druid to MT bosses when you have warriors and paladins who can't really dps as much as feral druids in BC?

Why would you force a druid to MT role to stay in bear instead of tanking trash here and there and go kitty and dps the boss just about as good as any other classes(except lock).

There should be a reason to bring a druid tank instead of a warrior tank, if we are just like another warrior tank, why would you bring a feral druid when warriors have spell reflect/shieldwall, why would you bring a druid tank when paladins are master of AOE tanking. 5% crit buff?

Why would you bring a kitty dps when a rogue can interrupt without using combo points, poisons that is vital to the encounter?

Is there a reason to give 2 sets of gears to a class that is only able to do 1 job with 1 spec?

I am not whining, I am discussing, if people managed to convince me that what I have mentioned is WRONG, then I will accept my mistakes.

The fact that we are nerfed and we will not be the preferred tanking choice compared to warriors and paladin is obvious. You can say I am lying now, but it has been the case in late BC, though we were loved in early 70s in the first few months of BC release.

The nerf will just make us disappear even faster this time in WotLK, believe it or not, the result will be clear in 1-2months.

Also, my question is, "What is our role in WotLK?"

I told you. You will either tank or DPS. Why would they bring you instead of a protection warrior or a rogue? Because you're a better player. Rogues poison vital for an encounter? Kick being important? Ask warriors how many boss abilities in LK they can spell reflect in raid instances. Zero. You're right, there isn't a reason to say "Hey guys, we really need to get a feral into this group". Likewise, there isn't any reason to say "Hey guys, we really need a rogue in this group". Or a protection paladin.

You won't be brought anymore because your specific spec is required. You'll be brought because you're good.

I don't have that kind of problem. It does however depend on your spec.
Since rage is not a problem in sunwell, I did not spec into cheap lacerate or mangle and put these point into 5/5 R&T.
This means, I should use maul a lot. Berserk, if used correctly (CD reset is not implemented yet & enough rage to mangle through it) can give you quite of a headstart.

Void reaver isnt the fight you use to determine your tps.

If VR somehow didn't hit you at all, without rage, theres nothing much you can do.

Don't stack strength, with the new talents, you should only stack agility, even more so now compared to prepatch i'd say.

More crit = more rage, more dodge = more rage as well.

You have to choose between OoC and berserk, i prefer OoC, with things are now, you will be only using 1 berserk per fight, which is quite useless tbh, and the fact that swipe is unlimited target now, there is no reason to let mangle hit 3 targets, it doesnt help you much in AOE tanking.

Mangle whenever its up, renew lacerate when its about to fade and keep it 5stacks, FF when its about to fade, spam maul when you are tanking a boss. My rotation could be wrong, but if theres any difference, it would be minimal.

No spell reflect? TK robots? RoS?

ok next spell, shield block for illidan.

Rogues poison not vital? mind numbing/wound, remember magtheridon?

would you shiv on kael MC peeps and kick the spells they use or do you want a kitty to mangle them to death?

kick not important? tell me you don't have kicks on hkm, council, karathress, kael, solarian, mag, hey the list could go on.

Good players? Would you bring a good warrior or a good feral druid to tank? Would you bring a rogue to dps or a good feral druid?

You are totally out of topic.

Read the important part. This is about Wrath of the Lich King, not The Burning Crusade. I can assure you, absolutely none of those things matter in any raid instance in beta right now.

I'd have to disagree heavily with this. OoC is almost useless in a MT build. You will find that you are never rage starved so an extra free mangle really does nothing for you. Berserk on the other hand is a fantastic threat builder. Popping Enrage (assuming KotJ) and Berserk together at the beginning of the fight and spamming mangle will give you an enormous threat lead.

@ Baelther, you should be mauling at every opportunity as long as you aren't rage starved (which shouldn't be a problem even on VR due to the pounding). Maul now receives a huge array of multipliers making it our best threat move. Theorycrafting has also put FFF as a great threat move and should be used every cd (if going for maximum threat). Additionally, looking at your spec, you have 5 pts in furor which is quite useless for pve now. Those points could be better spent in Imp Mangle and KotJ.