Feral talents/abilities - WotLK discussion - Page 137

Druidiful · 09/18/08, 1:00 PM

Originally Posted by Valerian

Does FFF only cause damage in bear form? Or is that qualifier only added to the threat component? The wording in the patch notes is not terribly clear on this.

5% AP in cat form is not insignificant. With my current ~5k AP thats 250 free damage every 6 seconds ~ 41 dps.

It does not do any damage or extra threat in any form other than bear. Also at 71 with mainly t4/za/badge gear it does between 120-140 damage.

edit: Are there any working threat meters to use on beta? Or is there a way to get the default UI to show your actual threat in numbers?

Maeltne · 09/18/08, 1:05 PM

Originally Posted by ironwolfw

From the description on: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?druid

Deals [5% of AP + 1] damage and additional threat when used in Bear Form or Dire Bear form" So it's unlikely that you'll get the damage in cat.

Depends if it is:

(Deals damage) and (additional threat when used in Bear form or Dire Bear form) or

(Deals damage and additional threat) (when used in Bear form or Dire Bear form)

Sometimes I hate English...

For mindless grinding I hope it is the former... Bah slow refresh = already answered as the latter

tlbj6142 · 09/18/08, 1:07 PM

Originally Posted by Druidiful

Also at 71 with mainly t4/za/badge gear it does between 120-140 damage.

I wonder how much "and additional threat" it adds on top of the 120-140 from damage?

Cynrh · 09/18/08, 1:16 PM

Re: the mana return in iLotP, it is to address PVP mana issues: See:

WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Pvp not tanking for once G-crawler

Janraea · 09/18/08, 1:32 PM

Originally Posted by Cynrh

Re: the mana return in iLotP, it is to address PVP mana issues: See:

WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Pvp not tanking for once G-crawler

True enough. But combined with the wotlk Furor, it opens up some nice support capability for the kitties, especially if oom-healing is the typical situation in raids on the edge of a guild's content (which seems likely).

taleden · 09/18/08, 1:34 PM

Originally Posted by aldy

...Its been changed so that bears have a decent ranged aggro move for pulling your mob in a group pack and also a ranged CC break; two things that ferals have been asking for FFF to do for months...

Ranged pull with higher threat -- wonderful.

Ranged CC break -- okay, useful, but honestly one of the things I loved about FFF was precisely that it *didn't* break CC. If I was tanking something that wasn't the first target (so I had plenty of threat leeway), I loved being able to cycle through the sheeps and FFF them for the free threat without breaking them. Then if one popped early, instead of gibbing the mage it'd run to me from the FFF threat, giving the mage more time to get it sheeped again.

So I'm a little ambivalent on this change. It'd be nice to have both options -- i.e. a ranged non-CC-breaking threat move, and a ranged CC-breaking move.

Janraea · 09/18/08, 1:38 PM

Originally Posted by taleden

Ranged pull with higher threat -- wonderful.

Ranged CC break -- okay, useful, but honestly one of the things I loved about FFF was precisely that it *didn't* break CC. If I was tanking something that wasn't the first target (so I had plenty of threat leeway), I loved being able to cycle through the sheeps and FFF them for the free threat without breaking them. Then if one popped early, instead of gibbing the mage it'd run to me from the FFF threat, giving the mage more time to get it sheeped again.

So I'm a little ambivalent on this change. It'd be nice to have both options -- i.e. a ranged non-CC-breaking threat move, and a ranged CC-breaking move.

Also, a lot of the CC doesn't break on low damage anymore (does any of it?), so calling it a CC-breaker is kind of misleading.

kalbear · 09/18/08, 1:43 PM

Ranged CC break -- okay, useful, but honestly one of the things I loved about FFF was precisely that it *didn't* break CC. If I was tanking something that wasn't the first target (so I had plenty of threat leeway), I loved being able to cycle through the sheeps and FFF them for the free threat without breaking them. Then if one popped early, instead of gibbing the mage it'd run to me from the FFF threat, giving the mage more time to get it sheeped again.

You can do this by shifting out of bear and FFing the mob. I personally really like the option to do one or the other, even if muscle memory will occasionally break a sheep or two after this.

coredumperror · 09/18/08, 1:45 PM

Originally Posted by Janraea

Also, a lot of the CC doesn't break on low damage anymore (does any of it?), so calling it a CC-breaker is kind of misleading.

I noticed that a hunter's freeze trap in the Nexus run I did didn't break on my first first swipe, and that was quite surprising. Does this apply to all other CC as well?

Peekaboo · 09/18/08, 1:52 PM

Originally Posted by coredumperror

I noticed that a hunter's freeze trap in the Nexus run I did didn't break on my first first swipe, and that was quite surprising. Does this apply to all other CC as well?

No just traps. Its so you can trap a dotted target when pugging.

Maeltne · 09/18/08, 2:00 PM

I'm trying to come to a conclusion regarding Barskin and Shield Wall. Base it is 1/3 with effect with 1/5 the cooldown, and if/when warrior talent it is 1/3 the effect with 1/4 the cooldown.

It terms of overall mitigation it works out to being about 4% for us and 2.4%->3% mitigation for warriors if just spammed mindlessly, however that 60%/20% can make a big difference during and enrage/frenzy/big incoming hit.

I honestly don't know who has the advantage here.

kalbear · 09/18/08, 2:04 PM

I noticed that a hunter's freeze trap in the Nexus run I did didn't break on my first first swipe, and that was quite surprising. Does this apply to all other CC as well?

It doesn't apply to all other CC that I know of, but I do know it applies to things like maim and entangling roots.

tlbj6142 · 09/18/08, 2:09 PM

Originally Posted by Selmarix

I assume that they will add something related to AoE tanking of bigger pulls, as that is a big weakness of bears currently.

I agree. Maybe some sort of 12-15s AoE DOT when used as a bear? That would help PvE by building threat in AoE scenarios and yet not be too OP for PvP but annoying (flag defense, etc.).

Bluefish · 09/18/08, 2:20 PM

Originally Posted by taleden

Ranged CC break -- okay, useful, but honestly one of the things I loved about FFF was precisely that it *didn't* break CC. If I was tanking something that wasn't the first target (so I had plenty of threat leeway), I loved being able to cycle through the sheeps and FFF them for the free threat without breaking them. Then if one popped early, instead of gibbing the mage it'd run to me from the FFF threat, giving the mage more time to get it sheeped again.

Are we sure mobs accumulate threat while CC'd? I vaguely recall being told on my Warrior that Sundering sheeps doesn't give you any threat on them.

Pzychotix · 09/18/08, 2:28 PM

Originally Posted by Maeltne

I'm trying to come to a conclusion regarding Barskin and Shield Wall. Base it is 1/3 with effect with 1/5 the cooldown, and if/when warrior talent it is 1/3 the effect with 1/4 the cooldown.

It terms of overall mitigation it works out to being about 4% for us and 2.4%->3% mitigation for warriors if just spammed mindlessly, however that 60%/20% can make a big difference during and enrage/frenzy/big incoming hit.

I honestly don't know who has the advantage here.

Warriors have the clear advantage.

Better mitigation over time is rarely the issue. Saving your healer some mana is rarely the issue.

Surviving an enrage or living through that last big blast is the issue.

Barkskin is crap compared to what other tanks get.