Feral talents/abilities - WotLK discussion - Page 139

spartakos · 11/04/08, 3:48 AM

With the new threat transfer abilities of the rogues and the hunters I don't think any tank will have threat problems in raid enviroment.

@Nightcrowler: When you say gemmed you mean for tanking or for dps? Enchants also.

nightcrowler · 11/04/08, 4:50 AM

At ppl asking info about my simulation:

spec used into bear simulation: 0/60/11
Enchants and gems are for tanking
Something is probably overvalued (i've used epic gems for example).
Gems are stamina, stamina/agi, stamina/hit, in agreement with sockets bonus.
All buffs are taken improved and best in slot.
No profession BOP items or abilities.

I'd like to link the equipment but it's an excel file and I don't want to reformat all the text, do you know how can I do?

As for lacerate:
the damage is computed each time you reapply a lacerate (or in other words is the total lacerate damage for each application) So, if you consider a full stack already active you will have:

Into this calculation I avoid putting refresh crit/armor/mangle interaction to simplify but they are computed correctly into the simulation

refresh application: (88+0.01*AP)
stack: (64+0.01*AP)*5(stack)*5(tick)

Total: (1688+0.26*AP)*1.1*1.3 = 2414+0.37*AP

with 6600 ap = 2414+0.37*6600 = 4856 and I'm not considering temporary buffs or things like retribution aura and so on.

Belzi.ET · 11/04/08, 5:39 AM

Quick question about patch-notes 3.0.3.

* Predatory Instincts doesn't work with Bear and Dire Bear form anymore.

I'm a little unsure about the wording: Predatory Instincts (atm, 3.0.2-tooltip)

Is just the critical strike bonus for kitty only, or is it, that the 30% AE-damage-reduction isn't available for tank-bears neither?

Prinsesa · 11/04/08, 5:41 AM

Both the AOE damage reduction and the critical strike damage bonus apply only to Cat Form. The talent does absolutely nothing for Bears.

halmmar · 11/04/08, 6:33 AM

Originally Posted by Prinsesa

Both the AOE damage reduction and the critical strike damage bonus apply only to Cat Form. The talent does absolutely nothing for Bears.

It's also pretty easy to check if you're unsure. Damage is just testing swipe with/without PI. And AoE reduction you switch forms on felmyst and notice you take less damage in cat form. These effects are already in place on live servers.

♦ Abradix · 11/04/08, 7:41 AM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

I could use some feedback on what ferals value in a bear rotation. Basically, I've got all these possible rotations, and getting a DPS/TPS value for each, but I don't want to show all of that data, since most of it doesn't matter.

I'll show the DPS and TPS of the following rotations:
Highest Single Target TPS Rotation
Highest Single Target DPS Rotation
Swipe Spam

And I'll also show the expected Damage and Threat of each attack. Is there anything else that bears will care about? I'll probably include a chart of all rotations and their DPS/Threat, as well.

The only three things I remotely care about and will be making simulations for are:

Highest Single target TPS Rotation (Unlimited rage) - For possible aggro sensitive fights
Highest Single target DPS Rotation (Unlimited rage) - For general every day tanking
Highest Single target TPS Rotation (Zero incoming rage) - For off tanking

Maeltne · 11/04/08, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by nightcrowler

keep lacerate stack up (refreshing every 13.5 seconds so you have a second choce if you miss the first one).

I have a question about this. My view is that spamming abilities every GCD, you will actually launch and ability every 1.5s + X, where X is some small, non-negative value determined by your latency, lag, spam skill, and a butterfly in china.

Hence if you want to have a second chance to do it manually you will in fact have to Lacerate at 12s, or 8 GCDs, so that if it missed you can simply do the next one at 13.5s or 9 GCDs since the stack will fall off before 15s or the 10th GCD.

Or if you want to macro it, you must fit in 2 Lacerates into 9 GCDs. For instance (w/ Imp Mangle)
/castsequence reset=6 Mangle - Bear, Lacerate, Swipe, Mangle - Bear, Swipe, Lacerate, Mangle - Bear, Swipe, Swipe

Also have they fixed the FFF reapply issues yet with Misery/Imp FF?

david0925 · 11/04/08, 11:52 AM

Refreshing lacerate at both 12 or 13.5 seconds are both pretty reasonable seeing how it can be parried or BLOCKED (lol) against bosses. I am not sure if a blocked lacerate refreshes or not.

kalbear · 11/04/08, 11:55 AM

Also have they fixed the FFF reapply issues yet with Misery/Imp FF?

Not in beta or live.

♦ Abradix · 11/04/08, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by david0925

Refreshing lacerate at both 12 or 13.5 seconds are both pretty reasonable seeing how it can be parried or BLOCKED (lol) against bosses. I am not sure if a blocked lacerate refreshes or not.

It doesn't, a blocked lacerate is effectively a miss/dodge.

Selmarix · 11/04/08, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by david0925

Refreshing lacerate at both 12 or 13.5 seconds are both pretty reasonable seeing how it can be parried or BLOCKED (lol) against bosses. I am not sure if a blocked lacerate refreshes or not.

Does the bug still exist that drops a lacerate stack after the last tick instead of at the end of the debuff duration (that is not the same time after you have refreshed the stack at least once)? In that case you might have to refresh even earlier.

halmmar · 11/04/08, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Selmarix

Does the bug still exist that drops a lacerate stack after the last tick instead of at the end of the debuff duration (that is not the same time after you have refreshed the stack at least once)? In that case you might have to refresh even earlier.

That's what I thought, but I checked it outside shatt and it didn't drop until 15 seconds passed.

Beace · 11/04/08, 1:36 PM

Originally Posted by Selmarix

Does the bug still exist that drops a lacerate stack after the last tick instead of at the end of the debuff duration (that is not the same time after you have refreshed the stack at least once)? In that case you might have to refresh even earlier.

I haven't experienced this after the 3.0 patch.

Niton · 11/04/08, 3:19 PM

Looks like Armor is being changed after all.

Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

ARMOR
We are changing the way bear armor works so that bonus armor on items does not receive the bear armor multiplier. Specifically this means that trinkets, rings, necks and cloaks with bonus armor will not be multiplied by the bear bonus. The normal armor on leather will still be multiplied by this bonus. We are also going to remove bonus armor from Feral staves. You’ll get your bonus armor from the leather you acquire.

Examples:
1) A ring that grants 100 bonus armor will now grant a bear 100 armor (not ~470 armor).
2) Leather legs with 253 armor will still grant a bear ~1190 armor (not 253 armor).
3) A feral staff will now grant 0 armor.

We are making this change because armor is such a good stat for bears that it makes taking pieces with bonus armor a non-decision and we don’t want acquiring these pieces, which tend to not be common, to be so much of a barrier to a druid who wants to tank a raid.

This change will NOT be in effect when Lich King ships. We are letting you know this now so that you don’t go through heroic efforts to acquire items like the Badge of Tenacity, or Defender’s Code. Defender’s Code, with 850 armor, will still be a good trinket. But it won’t be an insanely good trinket for a bear.

We will adjust the bear armor modifiers so that your net mitigation does NOT go down with these changes. Let me repeat: this is not a nerf to Feral armor. It is a change to the amount of armor you get from gear with bonus armor.

MANA
We are adding an effect to a deep Feral talent (something like Primal Tenacity) to further reduce the cost of shapeshifting into cat or bear by 50%. This talent will stack with Natural Shapeshifter for a total cost reduction of 80%. PvP-focused druids can get both talents to shift easily and often despite, no longer having Int on gear at level 80.

PROTECTOR OF THE PACK
We are removing the group requirements from this talent. The new tooltip will say: “Increases your attack power by X and reduces the damage you take in Bear Form and Dire Bear Form by Y.” The values of X and Y themselves are not changing.

Again, these changes will NOT be in Nov 13 for Lich King’s launch. We will add them in a patch that will come out sometime before the major Ulduar content patch. We're letting you know now so that you can choose quest rewards and loot drops accordingly.

Source: WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Upcoming Feral changes

tlbj6142 · 11/04/08, 3:27 PM

What exactly is "bonus armor"? Does he mean the "green" additional armor?

So, a neck with 100 base armor and 100 "bonus armor" would give us 100*bear + 100 armor?

Brute · 11/04/08, 3:34 PM

Originally Posted by tlbj6142

What exactly is "bonus armor"? Does he mean the "green" additional armor?

So, a neck with 100 base armor and 100 "bonus armor" would give us 100*bear + 100 armor?

Essentially it means that all armor on necks, cloaks, rings and trinkets will not be subject to direbears armor multiplication. So if a ring has 400 armor, you'll get 400 armor from it regardless of whether you're in caster form or bear form.

Septus · 11/04/08, 3:35 PM

Well it's not "natural" for rings and trinkets to have armor, but every cloak does. It seems like the standard 70-90 armor on a cloak should not be considered bonus armor.

Rhaegal · 11/04/08, 3:41 PM

The wording is only ambiguous when it comes to cloaks. While yes, there are rings and such with armor values that aren't green on the tooltip, as mentioned above, it's not a "natural" stat for the item. However, also from his wording, it sounds like it's only leather items (or at least, items that go into a slot with an armor type) that will receive the bear multiplier, which means neither the base or bonus armor on cloaks will receive the bonus, though that will need clarified sometime in the next month or two while they figure it out the details, which obviously aren't completely hashed out yet anyway.

tlbj6142 · 11/04/08, 3:53 PM

Originally Posted by Septus

Well it's not "natural" for rings and trinkets to have armor, but every cloak does.

So, now there is no point for me to get the last 456 rep with The Violet Eye so I can get [Violet Signet of the Great Protector]?

Brute · 11/04/08, 4:01 PM

It will be interesting to see how much they increase the base direbear form multiplier and where they position a T7 ferals armor. Like it or not an ideally naxx equipped bear is pretty close to the armor cap already. And with rings, trinkets, necks and cloaks coming off of the bearform multiplier, if they dont increase the multiplier for actual armor slots to bring us back close to where we were (ie near cap for naxx), its going to be a nerf despite what they say.

Rhaegal · 11/04/08, 4:03 PM

Do you plan on tanking anything in the next two (?) months? This change is not going to happen overnight. It may not even be in effect before we're well into Naxx 2.0, though I honestly don't know what the timeline is looking like for 3.1. If you were thinking of getting that ring at all, then still get it. The odds that you'll find something better leveling/instancing through Northrend before this change goes into effect are just as likely now as they were before it was announced.

Grubsnik · 11/04/08, 4:03 PM

Words cannot describe how relieved I am to hear about this change.

When the 400->370% armor nerf went into the game, I was sure we were set up for another 2 years hunting and wearing "mediocre" blue trinkets and other items.

Going into Wrath with this change coming into the game, has completely messed up my priority for which toon i'll level first. Still considering to go with my warrior, but the druid is looking soo much more tasty now.

david0925 · 11/04/08, 4:06 PM

Not important, but Harness of Carnal Instinct has been nerfed

RIP =(

Edit: stat conversion is actually better compared to other pieces of gear

Armor: 807> 499 (-308, -1594 after bear modifier and thick hide)
Agility 54> 75 (+21)

Moof · 11/04/08, 4:09 PM

I guess that means it's finally time to retire my [Mark of Tyranny]

I'd be interested to see how this shifts the effectiveness of tank-oriented accessories in comparison to agi/stam heavy dps ones.

Brute · 11/04/08, 4:22 PM

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