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Old 09/18/08, 4:09 PM   #2071
angi
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Kil'Jaeden (EU)
Originally Posted by Pzychotix View Post
Warriors have the clear advantage.

Better mitigation over time is rarely the issue. Saving your healer some mana is rarely the issue.

Surviving an enrage or living through that last big blast is the issue.


Barkskin is crap compared to what other tanks get.
This is totally dependend on encounter design. For example at Brutallus it will be godlike, you have barkskin ready for every Stomp. If a boss enrages he often makes 10x the damage as normal so shield wall is nothing which helps there really.

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Old 09/18/08, 4:28 PM   #2072
Neddie
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Smolderthorn
Originally Posted by angi View Post
This is totally dependend on encounter design. For example at Brutallus it will be godlike, you have barkskin ready for every Stomp. If a boss enrages he often makes 10x the damage as normal so shield wall is nothing which helps there really.
There are enrages, and there are enrages. The "you took too long, game over, I'm wiping the raid" is one kind that shield wall won't help with. The "you took me to 10%, let's see if you can finish me off" kind is another. Nothing short of a miracle will save you from real enrages, but shield wall (and to a lesser extend shield block and barkskin) can help with the second kind.

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Old 09/18/08, 5:23 PM   #2073
 Regen
B-B-BLOODBATH
 
Regen's Avatar
 
Regen
Troll Druid
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Neddie View Post
There are enrages, and there are enrages. The "you took too long, game over, I'm wiping the raid" is one kind that shield wall won't help with. The "you took me to 10%, let's see if you can finish me off" kind is another. Nothing short of a miracle will save you from real enrages, but shield wall (and to a lesser extend shield block and barkskin) can help with the second kind.
These are now categorized seperately (not sure if you made a typo or not).

Berserk = Instant raid wipe (400-1000% dmg)
Enrage = Usually low % based, or sometimes "timed" with someway to clear it (see Grand Widow)
Frenzy = Dispellable "Enrage" via Tranq Shot, etc.

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Old 09/18/08, 5:52 PM   #2074
Malazaar
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Gul'dan (EU)
All the other tanks shieldwall abilities have at least 50% damage reduction (warriors get 60%) - we only get 20%. While this is fine for long term damage reduction i see a problem with encounter specific issues.

Any encounter with a short and brutal enrage/berserk which the tank has to live through (or at least live as long as possible) will heavily favor any other tank class over us.

So in order to maintain their "every tank can tank every boss" mentality they cannot design encounters with aforementioned mechanic or they have to adjust barkskin accordingly.

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Old 09/18/08, 6:29 PM   #2075
cana
Von Kaiser
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Alleria (EU)
And again, giving too much power to Barkskin greatly affects Resto PvP balance unless it's talented in deep feral tree.

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Old 09/18/08, 6:30 PM   #2076
Selmarix
Piston Honda
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Turalyon (EU)
Originally Posted by Regen View Post
These are now categorized seperately (not sure if you made a typo or not).

Berserk = Instant raid wipe (400-1000% dmg)
Enrage = Usually low % based, or sometimes "timed" with someway to clear it (see Grand Widow)
Frenzy = Dispellable "Enrage" via Tranq Shot, etc.
To add some confusion the names Enrage and Frenzy got switched some time during beta. So Enrage is now the dispellable type and frenzy the low hp, unavoidable one.

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Old 09/18/08, 6:39 PM   #2077
gnoop
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Frostmane
We may end up with encounters that favor the Druid's much smaller cooldown and others that favor the higher mitigation of Shield Wall. I don't necessarily mind that Barkskin is only 20% if that shorter cooldown can be put to good use.

Barkskin also has good potential in pvp. If you're in a longer arena fight, the damage reduction on a regular basis would certainly come in handy.

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Old 09/18/08, 6:47 PM   #2078
Tyvi
Never, Mags. Never!
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Turalyon (EU)
Originally Posted by Malazaar View Post
So in order to maintain their "every tank can tank every boss" mentality they cannot design encounters with aforementioned mechanic or they have to adjust barkskin accordingly.
This. SWP is pretty much designed without the use of Shield Wall from what I can tell so if they keep it like that, then we could use SWP as an example on how good Barkskin could be. Barkskin during a Sathrovarr stun will be nice, during every Stomp on Brutallus, during every (or every second, depending on your luck) Corrosion on Felmyst. I don't really know if you even need it at Twins but you could do it just before a Confounding Blow I guess. On M'uru you could use it once per wave of adds. The only Boss I'd say SW is better would be Kalec if you took your time getting him past 10% so he stacked up too many Enrage stacks but that's about.

About Bear AoE tanking: Anyone else want to see Hurricane in Bear form? You know you want to. <_<
I always thought it would be nice if they gave Druids the old Hurrican back which you could fire and forget instead of the one they have now that breaks when you stop the channel.


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Old 09/18/08, 7:28 PM   #2079
Pzychotix
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Detheroc
Originally Posted by angi View Post
This is totally dependend on encounter design. For example at Brutallus it will be godlike, you have barkskin ready for every Stomp. If a boss enrages he often makes 10x the damage as normal so shield wall is nothing which helps there really.
You're forgetting situations where you dip low and you suddenly need an OHSNAP button to recover. Even if you're fighting bosses that don't enrage, there's always times where you need a shield wall button, and Barkskin just isn't going to cut it.

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Old 09/18/08, 7:30 PM   #2080
Tyvi
Never, Mags. Never!
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Turalyon (EU)
Originally Posted by Pzychotix View Post
You're forgetting situations where you dip low and you suddenly need an OHSNAP button to recover. Even if you're fighting bosses that don't enrage, there's always times where you need a shield wall button, and Barkskin just isn't going to cut it.
Neither is Shield Wall because it's on the GCD. SW is only great if you anticipate this happening or when you can get away with just HSing, otherwise you will have to rely on Last Stand and Trinkets. Is Berserk off the GCD by the way? If not, you guys should try getting it changed.


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Old 09/18/08, 7:58 PM   #2081
Pzychotix
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Detheroc
Even with the GCD, it'd still be effective at saving you from certain death.

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Old 09/18/08, 9:30 PM   #2082
Thessaly
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Kargath
Originally Posted by Liar View Post
About Bear AoE tanking: Anyone else want to see Hurricane in Bear form? You know you want to. <_<
I always thought it would be nice if they gave Druids the old Hurrican back which you could fire and forget instead of the one they have now that breaks when you stop the channel.
It'd be like a higher damage consecrate with a longer cooldown. It would fit rather nicely with how they've been altering abilities to pass them around while maintaining core tanking functionality with subtle (or not so subtle) differences.

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Old 09/18/08, 10:48 PM   #2083
Phorage
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Frostmane (EU)
There is a trinket in wowhead database (cannot link for some reason) like this:

Defender's Code
Binds when picked up
Unique
Trinket
850 Armor
Requires Level 80
Use: Increases parry dodge by 455 for 20 sec. (2 Min Cooldown)


Looks like a really awesome upgrade from BoT. Also it has the parry dodge thing mentioned earlier.

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Old 09/18/08, 11:25 PM   #2084
Valerian
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Blackhand
Originally Posted by Phorage View Post
There is a trinket in wowhead database (cannot link for some reason) like this:

Defender's Code
Binds when picked up
Unique
Trinket
850 Armor
Requires Level 80
Use: Increases parry dodge by 455 for 20 sec. (2 Min Cooldown)


Looks like a really awesome upgrade from BoT. Also it has the parry dodge thing mentioned earlier.
That's going to go a ways to increasing our armor over warriors. That's more of a contribution than our weapons.

On that note all the trinkets look pretty damn crazy. They seem quite a bit more impressive than current trinkets even taking the extra 10 levels into account.

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Old 09/18/08, 11:34 PM   #2085
Pzychotix
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Detheroc
Originally Posted by Phorage View Post
There is a trinket in wowhead database (cannot link for some reason) like this:

Defender's Code
Binds when picked up
Unique
Trinket
850 Armor
Requires Level 80
Use: Increases parry dodge by 455 for 20 sec. (2 Min Cooldown)


Looks like a really awesome upgrade from BoT. Also it has the parry dodge thing mentioned earlier.
Wow, the armor on that thing is ridiculous.

Ridiculously sexy.

Probably going to be using both BoT and this new trinket, unless there's another hot trinket out there.

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