Feral talents/abilities - WotLK discussion - Page 161

Astrylian · 09/29/08, 2:21 PM

*Everything* you do while in Bear form is multiplied by the bear multiplier. Swipe's threat is nothing special; it's just plain [threat = damage] (which is then multiplied by the bear multiplier).

Longhorn · 09/29/08, 2:27 PM

Originally Posted by david0925

With internal threat buffed on Swipe, depending on how much it got buffed, I am wondering if it will overtake (or already have overtaken) lacerate in terms of single target threat. In either case that makes lacerate either a Maul buff for 5/10 mans, or "shudder" anti-rogue pvp tool like rend only.

Swipe should not overtake lacerate for single target threat, because likely its not going to hit multiple times on a single target anymore. This means for 1-2 mob packs swipe shouldn't be as effective as a threat gen ability as it is now (which is good, you have to change up your style instead of mindlessly mashing one button).

Furtheremore you always want to keep lacerate up on the target that you're mauling because of the massive bonus it provides maul if you have rend and tear, providing there are no other bleeders in the raid. Currently while tanking maul is doing 40ish% of my total damage output depending on spec.

Malazaar · 09/29/08, 2:55 PM

Originally Posted by Longhorn

Swipe should not overtake lacerate for single target threat, because likely its not going to hit multiple times on a single target anymore. This means for 1-2 mob packs swipe shouldn't be as effective as a threat gen ability as it is now (which is good, you have to change up your style instead of mindlessly mashing one button).

Furtheremore you always want to keep lacerate up on the target that you're mauling because of the massive bonus it provides maul if you have rend and tear, providing there are no other bleeders in the raid. Currently while tanking maul is doing 40ish% of my total damage output depending on spec.

Swipe did never hit the same target multiple times, the discussion has always been a single hit of swipe versus lacerate on a single mob. I don't know the initial numbers of LK but if they are anywhere near those of BC, lacerate is going to draw the short stick if swipe gets its aggro multiplier (back).

Of course you want to keep up lacerate for the bleed buff (and to benefit from the non-trivial dps a rolling lacerate provides) - but the rest of the time you might want to use swipe instead.

Blazefire · 09/29/08, 2:59 PM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

*Everything* you do while in Bear form is multiplied by the bear multiplier. Swipe's threat is nothing special; it's just plain [threat = damage] (which is then multiplied by the bear multiplier).

Maybe I'm remembering something else then. Didn't swipe have an additional threat modifier long ago that was nerfed?

Oiysters · 09/29/08, 3:00 PM

Sorry, I must have had old or bad information. Still, I would rather they buffed the threat component of swipe to match consecrate and nerfed the damage component right out of the box rather than having other classes up in arms over our aoe damage. Although, pally tanks do pretty well on the damage meters in instances with alot of aoe pulls.

Astrylian · 09/29/08, 3:00 PM

Originally Posted by Longhorn

Swipe should not overtake lacerate for single target threat, because likely its not going to hit multiple times on a single target anymore.

Swipe has never hit the same target multiple times. Where are people getting all these crazy ideas about how Swipe works all of a sudden?

Gaseous · 09/29/08, 3:15 PM

Hey guys,

What's the general consensus on professions? Currently I've got LW and Enchanting for the ring chants. Wondering if skinning is gonna be worth dropping enchanting for...

kalbear · 09/29/08, 3:21 PM

I believe that swipe had some threat component very early on in TBC before the Great Bear Nerf. It doesn't now. Lacerate does, but swipe is better as it scales better with AP. At least at higher levels of AP it is.

Valerian · 09/29/08, 3:41 PM

Originally Posted by kalbear

I believe that swipe had some threat component very early on in TBC before the Great Bear Nerf. It doesn't now. Lacerate does, but swipe is better as it scales better with AP. At least at higher levels of AP it is.

I recall seeing something about the threat caused by the lacerate bleed being increased. Does anyone have any numbers on this? Or any testing to show what the new "breakpoint" on Swipe vs Lacerate is?

Deathwing · 09/29/08, 3:43 PM

Swipe had a 1.75 multiplier a long time ago. Lacerate is being changed to 50% threat on initial hit, 50% threat on dot tick.

Korhaug · 09/29/08, 4:12 PM

Originally Posted by Gaseous

Hey guys,

What's the general consensus on professions? Currently I've got LW and Enchanting for the ring chants. Wondering if skinning is gonna be worth dropping enchanting for...

Skinning is only worth it if you want the leather. The bonuses for all gathering professions are less impressive then the ones for crafting professions.

Oiysters · 09/29/08, 4:12 PM

From Wowwiki:

Prior to v2.0.3, Swipe's threat generation was 1.75x damage done. This threat bonus was removed, due to Swipe damage now scaling with Attack Power.
Prior to v2.0.10, Swipe's damage was increased by the Savage Fury talent. Savage Fury now only affects abilities in Cat Form.

Don't remember where I got the other information and I can't find it now.

zimira · 09/29/08, 4:17 PM

if they want to keep the calculations for thorn on the target, wouldn't it be logical to base the scaling it part on spell power, part on AP (or stamina) just like paladin seals?
x*spellpower + y*AP + z*stamina

Coldturkey · 09/29/08, 6:55 PM

The swipe change is pretty disapointing to be honest. I would have much rather had something that made bears get another button to tank with which could have added more to their effect in pvp. The buff to swipe hitting an infinite amount of targets will take some getting used to because mobs like to spread out around a target and as the amount of targets increase we'll probably have issues with having to constantly move around to have the mobs disperse themselves infront of us again.

And I remember a blue post mentioning bears will have something to give them a way to deal with daze, was that ever followed up on?

Duilliath · 09/29/08, 7:08 PM

Originally Posted by Coldturkey

And I remember a blue post mentioning bears will have something to give them a way to deal with daze, was that ever followed up on?

That was supposed to be a part of SotF. Not entirely sure that did get implemented.