Feral talents/abilities - WotLK discussion - Page 163

nightcrowler · 09/30/08, 6:57 AM

Also those gloves are better than T7.10 for tanking, they have lots of stamina, agility and expertise.

coredumperror · 09/30/08, 8:06 AM

Is it just me, or are the set bonuses, which have always been really excellent for feral, suddenly really bad on T7? The 3-sec Rip bonus is broken still, and needs to either become 2 sec or 4 sec. The old 3-sec Berserk bonus was nice, but now it's been changed to 3-secs more Barkskin (and they didn't fix the rip time when they did that change....), which is worthless for anything outside of tanking (or pvp... but this is a pve set). It feels like I'm going to be sticking with 2t6, and possibly even 4t6, for quite some time.

Falk · 09/30/08, 8:10 AM

Originally Posted by nightcrowler

Also those gloves are better than T7.10 for tanking, they have lots of stamina, agility and expertise.

Those are hilariously overbudget. I've found a few such items while levelling in beta and that's the latest offender. Before this there was also a bracer that was giving 60+ agility and stam coming from a Drak'tharon Keep questline reward. It's been since nerfed to slightly below T6 bracer level.

I'm actually refraining from using those while testing content. :P

Selmarix · 09/30/08, 8:26 AM

Originally Posted by Vaccine

On the gear subject has anyone found a non-set piece in the raid loot lists and said "Wow, I'd definately drop my tier piece for that!"? Seems pointless with the whole drive to make us want mixed leather more when none of it is itemised the way we want, its still all just DPS leather. I scanned the 25 and 10 man loot lists and found one headpiece that I thought I might use instead of the 25 T7 piece simply because the 25 head one seems badly itemised.

There is the polar set if you have no problem with threat, but that is crafted.
Apart from that the PvP items are better in some slots (especially those slots in which the tier item does not have expertise).

Falk · 09/30/08, 8:30 AM

Offset pieces have the benefit of allowing you to chuck different enchants for tanking and DPS, I guess. For example, you have 5/5, a head offpiece, and a shoulder offpiece. You can enchant T7 head and offpiece shoulder with tanking enchant, and T7 shoulder and offpiece head with DPS enchants, for example.

With Naxxramas dropping 2 tokens per reset (Well, 3 if you count the 10-mans) and Death Knights being added to the token, we're not going to have the same situation as live where everyone has full offspec tier gears. Not any time soon, at least, and probably not during a significant period of pushing Ulduar progression and beyond.

Diameter · 09/30/08, 8:43 AM

Originally Posted by coredumperror

Is it just me, or are the set bonuses, which have always been really excellent for feral, suddenly really bad on T7? The 3-sec Rip bonus is broken still, and needs to either become 2 sec or 4 sec. The old 3-sec Berserk bonus was nice, but now it's been changed to 3-secs more Barkskin (and they didn't fix the rip time when they did that change....), which is worthless for anything outside of tanking (or pvp... but this is a pve set). It feels like I'm going to be sticking with 2t6, and possibly even 4t6, for quite some time.

Ha, I didn't realize the bonus was 3 seconds to barkskin now. I swore I saw it as 3 sec to Survival Instincts a while back ago on wowhead (although I could have misread it). I think Blizzard is trying not to put in great bonuses on our "low tiered sets" this expansion so we don't run into the same problem as in TBC. Of course, a better 4 piece bonus would be nice, it's nothing worth getting too excited over.

On a better note, it appears our idols have been implemented (removed the placeholder 120 maul damage, 24 swipe damage).

Idol of Worship - Item - World of Warcraft
Idol of the Ravenous Beast - Item - World of Warcraft

I'm reserving my opinions until smarter ferals like nightcrowler and astrylian comment on them.

Soultrigger · 09/30/08, 9:03 AM

Originally Posted by coredumperror

Is it just me, or are the set bonuses, which have always been really excellent for feral, suddenly really bad on T7? The 3-sec Rip bonus is broken still, and needs to either become 2 sec or 4 sec. The old 3-sec Berserk bonus was nice, but now it's been changed to 3-secs more Barkskin (and they didn't fix the rip time when they did that change....), which is worthless for anything outside of tanking (or pvp... but this is a pve set). It feels like I'm going to be sticking with 2t6, and possibly even 4t6, for quite some time.

The Rip +3 sec bonus, while "broken" is a big part of what sustains a SR, RIP, FB rotation.

If you calculate, you will see that 34 sec SR, 18 sec mangle, and 19 sec rips is what makes RIP and FB get SR benefit and FB get rip benefit. (at least for dps purposes it feels good). And of course, the very precise use of TF on this rotation to make it work. ^^

Zuult · 09/30/08, 10:06 AM

Incoming mangle buff ! Ghostcrawler included this in an answer about balance concerns :

We are also discussing Mangle (Cat) or Rake buffs so cats don't feel so penalized by positional requirements, particularly in PvP.

source : WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> GC, a simple balance question for you.

Edit : Damn, Emi beat me to it ;-)

Selmarix · 09/30/08, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Soultrigger

The Rip +3 sec bonus, while "broken" is a big part of what sustains a SR, RIP, FB rotation.

If you calculate, you will see that 34 sec SR, 18 sec mangle, and 19 sec rips is what makes RIP and FB get SR benefit and FB get rip benefit. (at least for dps purposes it feels good). And of course, the very precise use of TF on this rotation to make it work. ^^

Last time I checked on live the lacerate debuff dropped after the last tick despite that it was displaying up to 2 seconds remaining (when you refresh it so last tick and debuff end do not align any more). Has that been fixed in the meantime (the check was quite some time ago)?

Mijae · 09/30/08, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by manapaws

I thought it was worth noting (or perhaps bragging) that I surpassed 10k AP today in beta, 10,292 in fact. I was dpsing in a 5 man heroic with an enhance shaman in group with unleashed rage up and strength/agility totem down. I had a 5 point savage roar running, and dps trinket activated... not certain if the prot tank had cshout or bshout up though.

The reason I mention this is because I was in BC beta back when my warlock was my main. Not long after BC came out - when most were about mid Kara level, there was talking of a 1000 spell damage club, and I remember how proud I was when I reached it. Reaching 10k today made me wonder which tier of content we'll be in when we can reach the 10k unbuffed AP club.

Full Naxx 25 gear with full buffs we will be around 8k unbuffed AP. With full raid buffs this will put us over 10k before Savage Roar. It will be close, but we very well could see it unbuffed before the end of LK.

Originally Posted by Vaccine

On the gear subject has anyone found a non-set piece in the raid loot lists and said "Wow, I'd definately drop my tier piece for that!"? Seems pointless with the whole drive to make us want mixed leather more when none of it is itemised the way we want, its still all just DPS leather. I scanned the 25 and 10 man loot lists and found one headpiece that I thought I might use instead of the 25 T7 piece simply because the 25 head one seems badly itemised.

The one piece I've identified as a clear DPS upgrade for chest, [Blade-Scarred Tunic] (even more so if expertise capped). I'm not sure if the double AP is a bug, but if they put more in like that our numbers can grow fast. [Tunic of Indulgence] and [Frosted Adroit Handguards] are also DPS upgrades over T7. Hood of the Exodus is the only one I've seen for tanking. Although, I'd agree those blue gloves are much better itemized.

Edit: I just noticed Leggings of the Honored as a pretty decent DPS upgrade as well. Note they are ilvl 226 though.

Originally Posted by coredumperror

Is it just me, or are the set bonuses, which have always been really excellent for feral, suddenly really bad on T7? The 3-sec Rip bonus is broken still, and needs to either become 2 sec or 4 sec. The old 3-sec Berserk bonus was nice, but now it's been changed to 3-secs more Barkskin (and they didn't fix the rip time when they did that change....), which is worthless for anything outside of tanking (or pvp... but this is a pve set). It feels like I'm going to be sticking with 2t6, and possibly even 4t6, for quite some time.

They probably didn't want the bonuses too large to make non-set items worth upgrading to. T4 was great, but making it good enough to last all the way to the end of BC was a bad. Using T6 will be comparable to 80 blues, but the stats on the epics will pass the bonuses by.

Garanthir · 09/30/08, 11:11 AM

We have done tests at higher tier levels, but if things start to fall apart, we hope to be able to right them in a timely fashion. Remember, it wasn't a stated goal for druids to be able to tank Sunwell. It is now.

I wonder what GC means by "but if things start to fall apart"? Hitting the armor cap too early?

All in all I think Bear tanking is in a pretty damn good spot. There might be an incomming AC adjustment, but hopefully it will be well thought out and not too severe.

Duilliath · 09/30/08, 11:19 AM

I agree Bear tanking is looking pretty fine, though I still would like 'one more button' to push, instead of still spamming the same ones we did before.

I'm starting to wonder about Cat DPS and (especially) PVP. Did anyone focus on that in the Beta and feels like sharing some info ?

Garanthir · 09/30/08, 11:38 AM

Well another ability might be interesting, but after tanking a couple of 5 mans in Beta it seems like I am pressing several more buttons than before

Berserk, Bark Skin, Survival Instincts, and consumables in forms get used a lot and definitely changed the "feel" of tanking, at least to me. I really need to sit down and think out some good macros for abilities and trinkets and pair up some of the synergies as well.

Also I meant to add if you pop Berserk while Mangle is on it's cool down (not GCD the 6 second CD) you'll have to wait for that CD before it goes instant. Not sure if that is intended or a bug.

• sadris · 09/30/08, 12:22 PM

Its difficult to fix.

For example, getting pummeled while casting a heal and then dieing as a priest with Spirit of Redemption keeps your heals on cooldown while in said ghost form.

Janraea · 09/30/08, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by sadris

Its difficult to fix.

For example, getting pummeled while casting a heal and then dieing as a priest with Spirit of Redemption keeps your heals on cooldown while in said ghost form.

It's not at all difficult to fix. Adding a 'clear the CD on mangle when this skill is used' is a simple and clean fix for the problem. What you're talking about is a spell-school lockout, which is not as easy, but still not difficult.